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Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/6/2012 4:09 PM   
DominicM



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Status: offline 		Had two mid-flight shutdowns today with my K140F. Both 3-4 minutes after take off. What info can I get from the Data Terminal after landing to try and diagnose the problem? After the first dead stick landing I refilled and ran the engine on the ground for 6-7 minutes without problem so I'm a little mystified what's wrong.

< Message edited by DominicM -- 4/6/2012 4:10 PM >

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/6/2012 4:21 PM   
KC36330



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Status: offline 		with the USB cable and software you can pull the last 51 min of run data. from the HDT you can view the last shut down cause.

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/6/2012 4:27 PM   
DominicM



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Status: offline 		Thanks. Where do I connect the USB cable? And where do I get the software?

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/6/2012 4:43 PM   
DominicM



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Status: offline 		Think I found it on the Data Terminal. Click the down arrow once and it reads SpeedLow, T=384 deg C, RPM 20000, Pw 820. Any ideas? Runs fine on the ground. Have done several test runs without problem. Should also mention I had a trail of white smoke after first shutdown. Not on the second though I don't think.

EDIT: Done some googling. Air bubbles in fuel line possibly. I'll do a test run and check.

< Message edited by DominicM -- 4/6/2012 4:54 PM >

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/6/2012 5:02 PM   
KC36330



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Status: offline 		when is it flaming out on you? example full thrust..........during spool.........at idle..........etc....

white smoke is an indication that you lost the flame, then you got fuel delivered that caused the smoke (air bubble put the flame out) no smoke can be a bad pump/valve or a big air bubble.

< Message edited by KC36330 -- 4/6/2012 5:03 PM >

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/6/2012 5:04 PM   
marquisvns



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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominicM

Think I found it on the Data Terminal. Click the down arrow once and it reads SpeedLow, T=384 deg C, RPM 20000, Pw 820. Any ideas? Runs fine on the ground. Have done several test runs without problem. Should also mention I had a trail of white smoke after first shutdown. Not on the second though I don't think.

EDIT: Done some googling. Air bubbles in fuel line possibly. I'll do a test run and check.


Pw at 820 exceeded pump limit, you have fuel restriction, please check plumbing, vent, filter....

Barry


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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/6/2012 5:14 PM   
DominicM



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Status: offline 		Will do. Thanks Barry.

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/6/2012 5:25 PM   
KC36330



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Status: offline 		an air bubble can cause the high PW with the pump trying to play catchup on the RPM drop.

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/6/2012 5:40 PM   
marquisvns



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Status: offline 		Very true, overall plumbing related issue


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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/8/2012 5:08 PM   
DominicM



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Status: offline 		OK. So redone ALL the plumbing to my K140F making very sure no kinks in the line at any point. Connected Data Terminal to prime pump and I get OVERLOAD. The pump just makes a high pitch wine, not the normal clicking sound, and then I get the OVERLOAD error message. Suggestions?

Label on pump says ZP30020FKT. I've not changed any values on the Data Terminal since out of the box and I've relearned radio settings twice.

< Message edited by DominicM -- 4/8/2012 5:17 PM >

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/8/2012 5:46 PM   
KC36330



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Status: offline 		Make sure the solenoid valve is opening and/or the fuel shut off valve

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/8/2012 5:48 PM   
DominicM



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Status: offline 		It is. I've tested both valves by using the test function in the Data Terminal and I can hear them opening and closing (i.e. clicking). Also tested the starter without problem. Only the pump fails to run in prime pump test on the Data Terminal and this is the only test that gives me OVERLOAD error. Maybe a faulty pump?

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/8/2012 5:58 PM   
KC36330



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Status: offline 		Disconnect the fuel tube and see if the pump works.

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/8/2012 6:05 PM   
DominicM



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Status: offline 		OK. In the process of carefully pulling the fuel intake line off the pump I noticed through the plastic covering on the pump that the positive power lead looked very lose. Pulled it carefully and sure enough its come away. Looks like soldering was bad. Am I OK to remove the covering and resolder without invalidating warranty? I'll just try to remove some of it not the whole lot.

< Message edited by DominicM -- 4/8/2012 6:08 PM >

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/8/2012 6:09 PM   
marquisvns



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ORIGINAL: DominicM

OK. In the process of carefully pulling the fuel intake line off the pump I noticed through the plastic covering on the pump that the positive power lead looked very lose. Pulled it carefully and sure enough its come away. Looks like soldering was bad. Am I OK to remove the covering and resolder without invalidating warranty? I'll just try to remove some of it not the whole lot.


No problem, please go ahead and proceed.


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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/8/2012 6:21 PM   
DominicM



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Status: offline 		Thanks. Will do and will get back with result in about an hour. Thanks for your prompt responses!

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/8/2012 6:51 PM   
DominicM



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Status: offline 		Re-attached the positive wire, re-tested prime pump and unfortunatley get the same result. In and out lines disconnected. Just a high pitched sound from the pump.

Could a faulty pump account for the SpeedLow I was getting on the inflight shutdown?

Next step to return the pump? Should I do this to my UK supplier, Ian Budgen at Modellbau UK?

< Message edited by DominicM -- 4/8/2012 6:55 PM >

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/8/2012 7:18 PM   
marquisvns



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Status: offline 		Since you are in the UK, please go ahead and get in touch with Ingo at MTH, Modell Technik Hausl

Modell Technik Häusl
Brigitte Häusl
Weyerngasse 41
8720 Apfelberg
Austria
Tel. + 43 3512 71742
Fax + 43 3512 44339
Mail ffice@modelltechnik.at">office@modelltechnik.at
WWW www.modelltechnik.at
UID Nr. ATU479420008

Ingo has a first class service, he'll take care of you. Do tell him this is a new engine, new pump, and seems to be tight. This problem isn't frequent, but has happened from time to time.

Also, there's a quick fix authorized by KingTech factory, that is to make a fine adjustment by loosening the two front hex screws (coated in red) a tiny bit. I remember Dirk told me, while in pump test mode, loose them very slightly will make a big difference.

Good luck,
Barry


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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 4/8/2012 7:27 PM   
DominicM



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Status: offline 		Thanks Barry. Loosened the hex screws and it didn't make any difference. I'll return it to Ingo. Cheers.

< Message edited by DominicM -- 4/8/2012 7:43 PM >

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 5/2/2012 7:40 PM   
DominicM



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Status: offline 		Took 2.5 weeks to send, fix and get the pump back from Ingo. He repaired it as soon as he got it so can't complain about that. The plastic covering had been totally removed though. Would have thought that could have been reapplied to protect it? No matter. Will fly again this weekend and will hopefully get a full flight and no deadstick for a change.

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 5/14/2012 8:32 AM   
DominicM



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Status: offline 		With all the recent bad weather in the UK this weekend was the first chance I got to fly my K140F Futura since I got the fuel pump back from repair. Three good flights although did have a shutdown on the last flight but I think that was due to a failsafe because the GSU didn't show an error for the last flight.



< Message edited by DominicM -- 5/14/2012 8:33 AM >

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 5/20/2012 8:42 PM   
DominicM



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Status: offline 		Attended a show yesterday and could not get the engine to start! Determined the fuel pump would not run. Tried to prime pump with the GSU and that would not work either. When I got home (after cursing quite a few times at a ruined day I had been waiting several months for) I connected the ECU lipo directly to the pump very briefly. Worked OK. After that I did two engine starts and was fine. Is the pump maybe not getting enough power during the start sequence?

Can someone also confirm if its OK to have the pump positioned horizontally? I've seen several other installs where this was the case. Ian (ModelbauUK) suggested it should be vertical. The filter is definitley mounted vertically. I did see guidance in the manual to suggest that.

Will be a while before I get to fly again but any advice on what can be done to prevent further start failures or engine shutdowns would be appreciated.

< Message edited by DominicM -- 5/20/2012 8:43 PM >

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 5/21/2012 2:40 AM   
KC36330



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Status: offline 		every install I've ever had the pump was horizontally mounted and I've never had a single issue.

if you're pump is working now after the jolt by the LiPo then chances are you had some FOD in the pump that was impeding its ability to turn at normal operation voltages. if it's a fairly new pump, it's not a bad idea to hook a AA cell battery to the pump and let it circulate fuel in a container till that battery is discharged, it 'breaks in' the pump.

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 5/21/2012 8:03 AM   
DominicM



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Status: offline 		Great thanks. I'll do that. Absolutley cursing myself for not doing a test start earlier that morning. Typical bad luck when I least needed it.

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RE: Info from Data Terminal after a shutdown - 5/26/2012 6:25 PM   
DominicM



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Status: offline 		Five 6 minute flights today and no problems. I think that confirms my engine issues are behind me. Hooray. Now just need to get the retracts sorted. Thanks.

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