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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 4/18/2012 4:06 AM   
P4Patti



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Status: offline 		Forgot to mention that the bare fuse weighed 1.5kg just for your interest.

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Patti

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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 4/18/2012 6:09 PM   
BobH


 

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Status: offline 		Patti. You are doing a masterful job on the Jug!

This past weekend at the Toledo show I saw where Robart was again offering their P-47. Their Jug is the same as yours, taken from the Zirolli plane.

You plane appears to have better detailing etc. At least from what I can tell.

Are you going to offer yours as a kit? Just wondering

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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 4/19/2012 3:26 AM   
P4Patti



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Status: offline 		Hi Bob – we saw the Robart Jug mk2 is due for release soon. Ours isn’t done from the Ziroli plan, it was drawn up from a 3 view in Rhino 3D, it’s 84” and was originally designed as a quick plug with no detail at all to test out methods of moulding and using core materials etc . Hence the “Slick” Chick reference . Once the method was proven Richard was intending to make a very detailed and larger Jug – true 1/5 to take to a scale comp – the Australian equivalent of Top Gun, The Temora Invitational. Unfortunately, for various reasons this comp has been postponed for a couple of years while they relocate.

I bought him the Sierra 1/5 scale retracts for this project for his birthday in Feb but now that’s all a bit in limbo. Shame as they are a nice set of legs with the shrink struts. As you can see, the idea of a smoothie with no panels or rivets grew into more as he tested out various ways of panelling and detailing. Slick Chick was built from 3D cnc slices of foam, and covered in embossed plastic panels. The foam plug still gives too smooth a surface for the effect we’re trying to achieve so the next plug will be just have the panels stuck to scale ribs, formers and stringers. The idea being, if you want it to look like a real warbird, build it like a real one!

This was meant to be a quick cheapy but when you see it flying next to the larger 1/4 scale 40lb Spitfire, there’s really not much difference! The P-47 with it’s large barelly fuse has real presence, both on the ground and in the air. I’m probably preaching to the converted here though. The motor and ESC for the CompArf Spit was $1200 whereas this Slick Chick was $200! The 84” size means we can fit 2 side by side in the back of our ute and it takes one person to lift it and plug in the wings.

There’s no plan to sell any of these from this mould. It would require a better plug and the moulds would have to be done differently to be commercial. The success of our first proof of concept fully composite warbird, both in cost and functionality has certainly surprised us both. Since the Temora comp isn’t happening the idea of developing this 80 something inch w/s composite warbird with real panels, real lumps and bumps and loads of detail to suit $200 undercarriage and Hobbyking $110 motor is very interesting, tempting and appealing.

On the other side of the coin, I’d have to convince Richard to pack the large composite P-38 project away for a while!!

I’ve put some screen captures of the beginnings of the design process for your interest. Done in Rhino 3D. The first one is developing the basic 3D model from 3 views 2) Extracting the foam sections and 3) panel and rivet detail projected onto the model.

I hope to get the motor mounted, the radio tray started and move down to the tail this weekend.

cheers
Patti





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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 4/19/2012 3:58 AM   
BobH


 

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Status: offline 		Patti, thank you for the explaination.

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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 4/22/2012 12:11 PM   
P4Patti



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Status: offline 		No problems Bob.

Progress hasn't been quite as quick as it should have because it's been beautiful weather and we went out flying on Friday afternoon after work and again on Saturday afternoon. I'm trying to get some practise in on this one and it's amazing how much more confidence I have knowing that the mould is there and how quickly one can be reproduced. I've seen the results over the years of practising on balsa built planes and "it ain't pretty"!! It made me a somewhat nervous flyer especially as I don't like building the traditional way. This Jug is SO solid that even a couple of belly landings haven't scratched it. We had some wet weather recently and sand and muck got up into the landing gear and only one wheel came down. Richard slid her in on her belly and after extracting the stuck leg, it taxied back without a scratch! I want to be able to fly it like it should be, not like Miss Daisy

So, I pulled out the tail plane mould and layed up the 2 halves then cut the internals and the hinges from 4mm marine ply. The edges of the 2 halves are joined with epoxy and glue powder with some grey colouring, all mixed up and piped on thinly with a plastic bag. The hinges are superglued in and then it's clamped together and weighted down.

The rear hatch former is in and their are a couple more formers to go int under the wing tube sleeves yet which will support the front of the air cylinder. The motor mount box is also in place the motor half bolted in. When the tail plane comes out of the mould I'll trim the hole in the rear of the fuse for this to go into. Flying progress

cheers
Patti


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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 4/23/2012 5:19 AM   
91zulu



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Status: offline 		Nice going Patti..

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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 4/27/2012 4:04 AM   
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Status: offline 		praise to u patti i envy your husband in my second life i want to be him. beautifull job on the jug

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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 4/27/2012 4:28 AM   
P4Patti



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Status: offline 		Thanks Zulu

Progress has continued, I just haven't found the time to post. I've started down the tail end by trimming (getting Richard to trim!) the rear stub. The tail plane was then masked off where it was to go into position and epoxy glue applied and all around the tail stubb. Once the tail plane was in position the rudder post was glued in and then a check to make sure it was all straight and even before clamping into place to dry. An elevator horn was cut from 2mm sheet steel. The shape is drawn up in Rhino 3D then exported to Sheetcam which creates the G-code and then the G-code is opened in Mach3 which tells the stepper motors where to move. Marvelous process!

The horn has 5 degrees of positive Ackerman which makes it work perfectly - here is a very useful and interesting link if you want to know what that's all about http://qmfc.org/school/ackerman.htm All the servos will be up the front keeping the weight forward and the tail light and just a couple of Du Bro type pull-pull cables operating it. Everything will be operated this way, rudder and tail wheel.

I'll leave the attachment of the horn and the elevator workings til I get to that part as it's easier to describe it with the help of pics. I'm aiming to join the elevators and rudder this weekend and get them installed. Things are taking longer now that the weather is cooling down, the rudder and elevator layups had to be put out in the sun to cure properly.

cheers
Patti


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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 4/27/2012 4:31 AM   
P4Patti



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Status: offline 		I won't get Richard to reply to that Neville

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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 4/27/2012 2:30 PM   
BOLTMAN



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Status: offline 		Hi Patti,

Your P-47 is looking great, I can't wait to meet it in person.

I agree this is a really good size for a Jug. Big enough to have some presense, but not too big so as to be a pain to handle or transport. I really wish I had not sold my Razorback that was about this size.

Must get back into this modelling thing soon, actually flew my micro Trojan last Sunday, first model flight this year!

Cheers

Mick

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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 4/27/2012 11:28 PM   
P4Patti



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Status: offline 		Mick, put the 9th &10th June on your calendar. That's our warbird weekend here in Bundy. Come on down and meet Slick Chick and I'm pushing to have Rough & Ready flyable by then, if not fully painted up.

Did you have a safe landing with the Trojan?
cheers
Patti

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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 4/28/2012 11:42 AM   
P4Patti



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Status: offline 		The rudder and one elevator has been layed up and last night I cut the internals for the elevator and joined it. It's an unconventional method of working the elevator, inspired by the full size one which hides all the workings inside - there are no external attachments. A length of 4mm piano wire goes through the elevator horn and about 75mm into brass tube epoxied inside the elevator. A 1.5mm piano wire is silver soldered to the brass tube to act like a torque wire and this is glued to the elevator with epoxy while joining the 2 halves. When the 2 elevators are in place they are lined up and pinned level and the 4mm piano wire inside the brass tube is glued using MetlWeld. See pics to understand the explanation. I'm just following the method that Richard used in Slick Chick, no reinventing the wheel here.

Now that the elevator is out of the mould I can lay up the 2nd one but it was too wet to do it today. We don't like spraying the 2 pack paint inside the shed and it wasn't possible to take it out so the 2nd elevator will have to wait for a break in the weather. The internals for the rudder are cut and I'll join it tomorrow.


I've also decided on the pilot that will be going into "Rough and Ready". She was WASP Florene Miller Watson who flew Thunderbolts, Mustangs and Lightnings. That'll give me something to do in my spare time to have that ready by June!

cheers
Patti


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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 4/28/2012 11:45 AM   
P4Patti



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Status: offline 		Well, they disappeared into Cyberspace, so here goes again ......

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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 5/3/2012 8:03 AM   
fokke


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Patti, follow with interest your topic and I can say only that is unique work. The idea to use corecork it's great , I use koremat or herex , but with cork is a nice idea , I don't know how is the weight with this material .I see that you use platinum colour, this is some base paint for cars painting?

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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 5/5/2012 9:20 AM   
P4Patti



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Status: offline 		Glad you're finding the thread interesting Rumen. The platinum colour is a 2 part car Top coat paint. It's interesting to see your moulds, you've got some nice projects happening.

Well, both elevators and the rudder are now finished and the tail wheel hole cut out. The elevator torque rod was "glued" inside the brass tubing in the elevators using MetlWeld and the elevators set and clamped in position to dry.

The tail wheel had to be attached to the rear former before it was put in place as there's not a lot of room to work down the tail from the inside! Once in position I was able to glue the former in place, along with the front formers under the wing joiner tubes and the air cylinder. I cut a radio tray and Richard installed the pull-pull cables - he's getting impatient to get his bench in the shed back so is starting to push things along. I'm too slow Don't wish too hard for your wives to move into your building space

I am leaving the soldering to Richard as well as I really don't want dodgy learning work coming unstuck! I cut a control panel which will sit down on top of the air cylinder. Slick Chick's is up higher like a dashboard but the wiring for my lipos is different and needs more room to bring longer leads out for charging (the batteries are staying in situ and will be charged in the plane). Because the charger can only charge 8S max I have to plug each of my 4 x 5S lipos into a special 6 battery charging adaptor that will charge them all at once http://www.revolectrix.com/cellpro_adapters.htm
The control panel has the dean plug connectors for each of the lipos plus the receiver via the BEC and also the speedy (ESC). I really like the way this is set up so that when you are ready to fly you can plug in each of the batteries (4 x 5S 5000mAh - making a 2 x 10S configuration), switch the power to the BEC then plug that in powering up the radio. When I'm happy that everything is working then I can plug in the ESC powering the motor and all this is done from behind the wing. No fingers anywhere near the prop.

The bits and pieces for the infusion lay up process arrived last week so we've done a few trials using that method and it's showing great promise. So much less messy than brushing it on and nice even results. Once we've got it a little more sorted we're going to try doing the wings this way. That shouldn't be too far away.

The cowl is made so time to start getting the nose art sorted. I'm going to make masks like we did for Slick Chick, cut on a vinyl cutter using masking film. It's just a matter of dividing the picture up into the number of colours and cutting a mask for each.

Til next time

cheers
Pati




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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 5/6/2012 11:43 AM   
trent smith


 

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Status: offline 		Good work Patti, I love the surface detail on the glass work. Keep up the great work. Cheers Trent.

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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 5/9/2012 12:23 PM   
P4Patti



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Status: offline 		Thanks for all the encouragement from everyone. The build is powering on now - literally. The motor and batteries are in and we had it running on the weekend, it has plenty of power! More than Slick Chick as Rough and Ready has more batteries with the 4 x 5000 mAh nano tech packs. It will be interesting to see if they last as well as the A123's which we've been using for a good couple of years now with no problems at all. The lipos will be left in the plane and charged in position which would probably have some people running for cover but they are have a C rating of 130 which we wont go anywhere near so all should be good. Never had a problem with the charging of any lipos either.

The tail is finished with the elevator and rudder pull-pulls installed along with the tail wheel. The control panel has been labelled and glued in place and the battery box and motor mount cut out, assembled and fitted. The ESC will mount under the battery box right in behind the cowl air intake so it will have plenty of cooling.

Tonight we pulled the canopy and a 2nd layer straight over the top which will become the canopy frame. We've been doing more testing with the infusion method and if the flap we laid up tonight turns out well then we'll go ahead and do the wings that way. It's starting to look like a plane with the prop on the front I'll cast up some dummy engines and it will really start to look the part. Need those wings

cheers
Patti




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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 5/9/2012 2:53 PM   
BobH


 

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Status: offline 		I'm jealous! LOVE the surface detail!!

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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 5/9/2012 2:56 PM   
glazier808



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Status: offline 		Wow Patty,

from an idea to a motor hanging in no time flat...

Guys.... this woman is serious, and making us all look like little boys with toys!

Lol

I love that you are going electric! I'm pushing electrons in my Fliteskin 109F also(with Benedini sound) and love it!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9505495/anchors_11003574/mpage_38/key_/anchor/tm.htm#11003574
Casey
Im also gathering everything for an electric BT Spitfire MK VIII, that is next on the bench.

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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 5/9/2012 3:56 PM   
fokke


 

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Status: offline 		""Glad you're finding the thread interesting Rumen. The platinum colour is a 2 part car Top coat paint. It's interesting to see your moulds, you've got some nice projects happening. ""

Thanks for the answer Patty!
What is the width of plywood wich you use for the wood construction, I use for some details 3mm. but for other 6 or 9 mm. plywood ?
This is one of my work and moulds :

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5311706/anchors_11071108/mpage_44/anchor/tm.htm#11071108



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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 5/12/2012 1:17 PM   
P4Patti



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Status: offline 		Bob, the surface detail is amazing for a smooth mould!! That's how it started life, as a quick smooth plug but really, it was just impossible not to add some detail and try out different methods. That surface detail comes out so well with just a touch of weathering too.

I'm serious all right Casey, I told you Richard was serious about getting me off his work bench It's pretty easy when all the hard work has been done for me though, it's like putting an ARF together compared to a traditional build. And the electrics was all wired and soldered together for me too so it's certainly not single handed. But the main thing is how much I'm really learning by hands on building this. Things that I thought I understood at a glance but having to actually do it then write it down makes it all sink in so much more. Electric is the only way for me, I wouldn't even bother flying otherwise. I'll be interested to hear how your sound card goes in the 109. The prop noise on the P-47 sounds great. We started the motor the other day and only got to about 1/2 throttle - it's going to have so much power it'll outrun Slick Chick I have some serious flying practise to do

Rumen, the plywood is all 4mm. You have some nice detail in your mould, it's a lot of work to make the plug but would you build any other way?!

The tests on the infusion lay up have been going well so this morning we made one wing half. It was remarkably simple and clean. The photos show the mould with the layers - cloth/cork & carbon fibre stips/cloth/peel ply/release film/infusion mesh. Then the plastic is sealed over the top and vacuumed down before opening up the inlet tube from the resin. It sucks through the mesh evenly and quickly with the excess going into the catch pot on the outlet side. Hopefully tomorrow we can lay up the other wing half and then get the internals cut and one wing joined.

Spent the afternoon taking advantage of fantastic flying weather

cheers
Patti



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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 5/17/2012 11:18 AM   
P4Patti



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Status: offline 		Hi again, I've been a bit slack about posting but progress on the plane has continued. We've had people staying which has slowed the progress a little but we took them out flying for a look and I got a couple of nice flying shots while we were there.

We layed up the 2nd half of the wing then I cut the internals, but forgot to take pictures of the internals put together inside the wing! I'll blame the visitors That will come when I do the other wing - hopefully this weekend. The joined wing feels really light and it will be interesting to compare it to Slick Chick wing once the retracts are in as well. I'm planning on having both wings on by the end of the weekend which is pretty exciting as then it's very nearly flyable.

cheers
Patti

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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 5/17/2012 12:33 PM   
fokke


 

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Status: offline 		""""""""""""Rumen, the plywood is all 4mm. You have some nice detail in your mould, it's a lot of work to make the plug but would you build any other way?!"""""""""""

Yes I will , I build the second model on this technik , Mig-3 1/5 I love this work ina method

BTW, your worк is impressive, I can learn from your topik

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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 5/19/2012 12:33 PM   
P4Patti



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Status: offline 		I'm glad you can get something from the forum Rumen - that's what it's all about isn't it?

With some close nesting, the internals for both wings have been cut from a 1/4 sheet of 4mm ply. Compared to buying sheets of balsa for a traditional build it's pretty good value with the 1/4 sheet costing around $20.

The retract mount has been glued together and jigged and glued in position in the wing. I've just dry assembled the rest of the internals for the photo and tomorrow they'll be glued in position properly and the wing can be joined. Then I have a flap and 2 ailerons to lay up.

cheers
Patti

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RE: Composite P-47 scratch build - 5/19/2012 12:36 PM   
P4Patti



Posts: 334
Score: 100
Joined: 2/12/2009
Last Login: 5/17/2013
From: BundabergQueensland, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		I'm having trouble uploading the photos so am trying one at a time, will see if I can get more in the next go!

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(in reply to P4Patti)
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Warbirds and Warplanes >> RE: Composite P-47 scratch build
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