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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/29/2012 1:20 PM   
Trisquire


 

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Status: offline 		Rusty mentioned that the Great Planes cowl was lengthened because modern engines are longer. Are you using a 70s engine? If so, you'd have to make your own cowl to get a good fit. Cutting the GP cowl shorter would result in a mismatch with the spinner.

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/29/2012 2:15 PM   
NM2K


 

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Status: online 		Fox used to sell crankshaft extensions. I wonder if they still have them in stock? Or is someone else making them in the proper sizes? An extension, of the proper size, would allow one to leave the cowl as it is.


Ed Cregger


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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/29/2012 5:27 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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Status: offline 		I think True Turn and maybe Dave Brown also make extensions.

Here are tho ones made by Fox, it continues on the next page.

http://www.foxmanufacturing.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=164&sort=20a&page=3

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/29/2012 5:28 PM   
Ralph White



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Status: offline 		It appears that I will not be able to shorten the nose cowl if I use the OS RF 61 Rear Exhaust. The backplate pump causes the engine to mount a little farther forward. The length of the cowl is just right for it. My OPS Goldhead also requires the stock cowl length. My son has our NovaRossi so I can't check to see if the cowl can be shortened for it.

The only way I think the cowl can be shortened is cut off the nose ring and install a new nose ring. Then you may have to find a spinner that is a fraction larger than 2 1/4". The stock 2 1/4" spinner may look right but you could not tell until you cut the front off the cowl.

Ralph

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/29/2012 5:49 PM   
Falcon6667



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ralph White

It appears that I will not be able to shorten the nose cowl if I use the OS RF 61 Rear Exhaust. The backplate pump causes the engine to mount a little farther forward. The length of the cowl is just right for it. My OPS Goldhead also requires the stock cowl length. My son has our NovaRossi so I can't check to see if the cowl can be shortened for it.

The only way I think the cowl can be shortened is cut off the nose ring and install a new nose ring. Then you may have to find a spinner that is a fraction larger than 2 1/4''. The stock 2 1/4'' spinner may look right but you could not tell until you cut the front off the cowl.

Ralph

I am thiking that a gold head 60 rear intake (nib)might just have found a home.
really enjoying the postes on this bird. looking forward to hearing how well ith gear holds up on grass fields.
Keep posting fellows.
Falcon

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/29/2012 5:54 PM   
vasek



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Status: offline 		I think changing the spinner is a noble idea. I am not fond of plastic spinners, nor it's shape

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/29/2012 6:38 PM   
Free Bird


 

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Status: offline 		Mine arrived yesterday, haven't had time to unpack it yet (will do tonight). I'd like to use the recommended Macs tuned pipe setup, does anyone know a good starting point for the length of the hearder, gonna use an OS 65AX. Also, what prop? I'm thinking and APC 11x6 or 11x7. I'm also thinking that I'm going to install the Hobbico mechanical retracts. I've used mechanicals in the past and they worked 100% of the time.

FB

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/29/2012 6:50 PM   
vertical grimmace



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quote:

ORIGINAL: bobby baker

Just a small note Joe Bridi is still around.
He will be at the (1st annual Bakersfield D7 Spring Bash) 28th and 29th two days from now. There also will be the old style pattern contest with classic rules. Small list of flyers so far around 60 have signed up
Tony F. - Phoenix 7
Richard Verano - Bridi Escape
Jim Kimbro - Silloutte (Jim brought it down today and it still looks and fly's great)
Rusty Van Buren - Super Ceptor
Jon Carter - Phoenix 7
Matt Kimbro - Mirage or Silloutte
Chip Hyde - Phoenix 8
Kyle Dahl Heli demo and will fly in the pattern contest
Chip Hyde will also be flying my 35 year old patrica circus circus

I am just finishing up a Sun Fli-5, which took me a great deal of time to source the plans. Thankfully I was able to get them from a nice gentleman here on RCU. To me, the Sunfli-5 is a dirty birdy, but a box fuse version. Almost like Joe made a simpler version to test the wing planform and the moments. The sun-fli 5 looks nothing like the earlier varients as this one has a tapered wing. I would love to be able to discuss this lineage with him. The plane was designed in 1972.
Thanks for the info. That will be one hell of a contest!

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/29/2012 7:58 PM   
ChiefK



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trisquire

Rusty mentioned that the Great Planes cowl was lengthened because modern engines are longer. Are you using a 70s engine? If so, you'd have to make your own cowl to get a good fit. Cutting the GP cowl shorter would result in a mismatch with the spinner.


Trisquire,

I do plan to use a Webra Speed .61. It is a 70's, 80's era engine. I've thought about remaking the cowl, but won't make a decision until I trial fit the engine and see just how much space we're concerned about.

ChiefK

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/29/2012 8:00 PM   
ChiefK



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Status: offline 		Ed,

I actually have one of those extensions in a parts box, but don't recall how they're used.

ChiefK

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/30/2012 3:23 AM   
airraptor


 

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Status: online 		free bird i wouldnt run the 65 AX on a pipe as the timing of the engine isnt set up for it. If you really want to run a pipe with it get the long header and run the muffled tune pipe. run a 12x10 prop on it or a 12x11.

My bone stock 65 would turn a 11x8 at 13,000.

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/30/2012 5:47 AM   
lfinney


 

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Status: offline 		pipes work just fine down to 140 degrees exhaust timing, the 65 AX likely has timing of 154-55 degrees.... no big worry unless trying to rev to 16-18 k rpm

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/30/2012 5:49 AM   
rogera


 

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Status: offline 		The "big brown van" is due today !! Very good service all the way from Illinois to Dubai. Ordered from Tower on Friday afternoon and expected delivery on Monday afternoon, can't be bad. Looking forward to opening the box this evening.

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/30/2012 6:44 AM   
doxilia



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Status: online 		Shortening the cowl or using a crankshaft extension with some vintage engines (really short ones) is not necessary. One need only mount the engine further forward on the mount. If the supplied mount is not long enough (which I'd doubt), a longer replacement mount takes care of things. An alternative, and probably preferable solution, is to built a FW spacer for the existing mount.

However, I think the idea behind shortening the cowl was not to fit the shorter engines but to render the design more like the original with a shorter nose moment.

It might make the front end look rather stout but cutting the cowl back to an OD of 2.5" would likely get one in the original design ballpark. This, at the "expense" of a larger standard size spinner. A 1/8" increase in radius is not a huge design departure.

As Ralph pointed out though, many of the engines we're likely going to want to use will require the full length of the cowl. European engines are typically longest followed by the Japanese while the American engines (e.g., K&B) tend to be shortest. The older FS/FR YS engines have reasonably short crankcases while engines like OPS, Rossi and MVVS will be longest.

I suspect that the relatively new NR 61-F might be a tad shorter than the classic Italian engines but I haven't checked the specs.

I'm interested in seeing how the fuel tank issue is solved. Less than 9 oz on a 60 really sounds like not enough fuel. Even a low performance 40 will burn through 10 oz readily.

David

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/30/2012 11:30 AM   
vasek



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quote:

ORIGINAL: rogera

The ''big brown van'' is due today !! Very good service all the way from Illinois to Dubai. Ordered from Tower on Friday afternoon and expected delivery on Monday afternoon, can't be bad. Looking forward to opening the box this evening.


Hi Roger, what was the shipping cost ?

Thanks, V.

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/30/2012 11:57 AM   
ChiefK



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Status: offline 		David,

Speaking for me alone, I simply don't want to move the cg forward along with the engine. So, I won't know if this is a real problem or not until I get my Webra mounted. I think my fuel tank solution will be adequate (substituting the 11.8oz tank from World Models). But I'll also be interested to see how the rest of you deal with it, or if you simply don't consider it an issue.

Greg

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/30/2012 11:57 AM   
rogera


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Vasek, a bit difficult to tell as a fellow flier also ordered the Revolver 70 and lots of other things as well. To give you an indication though, the total bill for all items was $864.21. We then qualified for a $200 discount and the shipping charges using UPS Worldwide Saver were $433.62. So quite expensive but it is a long way from the USA to Dubai. It is now just before 3 in the afternoon and still no call from UPS !!

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/30/2012 12:47 PM   
Free Bird


 

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quote:

free bird i wouldnt run the 65 AX on a pipe as the timing of the engine isnt set up for it. If you really want to run a pipe with it get the long header and run the muffled tune pipe. run a 12x10 prop on it or a 12x11.

My bone stock 65 would turn a 11x8 at 13,000.


airraptor - what fuel are you using and did you remove the baffle in the muffler?

quote:

pipes work just fine down to 140 degrees exhaust timing, the 65 AX likely has timing of 154-55 degrees.... no big worry unless trying to rev to 16-18 k rpm


Ifinney - great info, just what I was looking for. Getting the RPM into the 13k range will work just fine.

Thanks guys, much appreciate the info.

Well, I unpacked my DB last night and looked it over thoroughly last night. Very impressive model! The covering was pretty tight, just a few wrinkles here and there. I spent a couple of hours with the iron and went over the entire model. The fiberglass fuse is nicely done, but the sides seem kinda flexible between the wing T/E and the stab L/E. Anybody have any thoughts on this? Next, I'm going to seal all of the hinge gaps with clear UltraCote, I do this with all of my models and it doesn't take much effort. Based on the responses to my pipe question above for the OS 65AX, I'm going to stick with the stock muffler, but remove the baffle. Being the hobby budget is a little on the tight side, for retracts I'm going to use the recommended mechanicals. My experiences with mechanicals in the past has been very positive. I can always change over to air retracts if the mechanicals prove to be difficult.

I "dry" assembled the DB last night to get an impression of its size, and thought to myself that it looked kinda small, but then most of the classic pattern ships were around this size. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the H9 P7 I've been flying. With its swept wing and tail, the P7 is a more aggressive looking model.

FB

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/30/2012 2:22 PM   
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Status: offline 		Right now I am really upset with Tower Hobbies. I placed one of these on backorder but decided I would go ahead and build the glass kit I have instead. I called them on April 23rd to cancel the order and then this weekend while I was away at the Bakersfield contest they shipped the kit anyway and withdrew my money from my account. Now when I call them they say they have no record of my call cancelling the order. I expected a lot better service from them. Even though I am connected with Horizon I order from Tower from time to time. I am extremely surprised at how they handled this and then my call to them today.

< Message edited by TonyF -- 4/30/2012 3:29 PM >

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/30/2012 2:28 PM   
TonyF


 

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Status: offline 		I just flew my P-7 in the "Old School Masters" class at Bakersfield. I have a 16 ounce tank in that model and if all you can get in to this Dirty Birdy is 11 ounces you won't get through 2/3 of that pattern. I have to really watch how far I go and how much power I use in the turnarounds or I run out of fuel in the last maneuver. If you can't get at least a 16 ounce fuel tank in the model you're going to have to be very creative.

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/30/2012 2:31 PM   
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Status: offline 		Call them back and tell them you want to return it with an explanation of your attempt to cancel the order. Then see if you still feel they have poor customer service. I can see where your order was already in process and the cancelation wasn't able to be performed, but that doesn't equate to poor service in my book. I've never had a situation with Tower where they didn't go above and beyond to satisfy me.

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/30/2012 2:53 PM   
TonyF


 

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Status: offline 		Jeff, that's exactly what I just did. I originally placed the order online on April 21st and it was placed on backorder. I called on April 23rd and cancelled the order. While I was away they emailed me that the kit had been shipped on the 27th. When I just called them this morning they insisted they had no records of my call cancelling the order and they will not refund my account until they receive the kit back. Probably take two weeks or so to process. I guess when I called to cancel I should have insisted on some sort of cancellation confirmation but since I've never had an issue with them before it didn't occur to me. My problem is that after I cancelled the order I used my money for other things, so now it will be tight until they eventually issue a refund. It's just very surprising to me the lack of records on their part. I just expected better.

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/30/2012 3:34 PM   
doxilia



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChiefK

David,

Speaking for me alone, I simply don't want to move the cg forward along with the engine. So, I won't know if this is a real problem or not until I get my Webra mounted. I think my fuel tank solution will be adequate (substituting the 11.8oz tank from World Models). But I'll also be interested to see how the rest of you deal with it, or if you simply don't consider it an issue.

Greg

Greg,

My comments were really with regards to what seemed like a confusion as to why the cowl wanted to be shortened. Some said they were going to do this to end up with a more standard DB planform vs the "stretched" look offered by the stock cowl. But it then seemed that we were talking about cutting the cowl shorter so that vintage engines would "fit". Of course issues only arise with long engines, not with short ones. No need to cut a cowl because "my engine is short". Just wanted to elaborate on that.

I suspect the Webra 61, while vintage, will likely need the full length of the cowl. I don't think it's weight is sufficiently different from a 61 FX to result in CG problems. If GP did their homework, simply moving the battery pack should locate the CG properly. This of course will likely change once the fuel tank is replaced with 14-16 oz vs the stock ~9 oz. In that respect, GP didn't quite do their homework and likely balanced the model with a smaller tank so that it wouldn't wind up extremely nose heavy once fueled up with a 65AX up front.

Does the WM 11.8 oz tank you have in mind fit in the forward former cutouts? While it might prove to be a little maintenance headache, Rusty's idea of a header tank might not be a bad one as it allows the weight to be distributed more evenly throughout the flight and fuel consumption. I'd be inclined to assemble the model with the engine of choice, using the GP tank and a "backup" feeder tank in front of the servos. That would ideally allow the battery to be located in front of the feeder tank with the Rx on the servo tray (either way it's not significant weight wise). A pumped engine would likely simplify things as one could use a single 16 oz tank in the radio bay locating the battery in the nose.

David



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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/30/2012 3:37 PM   
MTK



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quote:

ORIGINAL: TonyF

Jeff, that's exactly what I just did. I originally placed the order online on April 21st and it was placed on backorder. I called on April 23rd and cancelled the order. While I was away they emailed me that the kit had been shipped on the 27th. When I just called them this morning they insisted they had no records of my call cancelling the order and they will not refund my account until they receive the kit back. Probably take two weeks or so to process. I guess when I called to cancel I should have insisted on some sort of cancellation confirmation but since I've never had an issue with them before it didn't occur to me. My problem is that after I cancelled the order I used my money for other things, so now it will be tight until they eventually issue a refund. It's just very surprising to me the lack of records on their part. I just expected better.

Tony, let me get a little philosophical,

From my experience Tower sounds, behaves and thinks similarly to big business. Their policies has left we modelers in the dust. Unfortunately they have certain items I want (OS33GT for example) so I can't avoid them. It wasn't always like that and that's what we tend to react to

Horizon on the other hand is just as large except somehow they managed to maintain the small mom and pop operating feel to their business and we the modelers are the beneficiaries. Luckily I am not affiliated with either so I can speak my mind


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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 4/30/2012 3:58 PM   
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Status: offline 		David, I just ordered a Hayes 16 oz tank from Tower Hobbies. Stock # LXK836. I think it will fit in the DB but not completely forward in the nose. I will be using an OS .61RF with pump so I can move the tank back if I need to. Will let everyone know how the tank fits as soon as I recieve it.
Ralph

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