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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/17/2012 5:42 PM

Doug47

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Those Robarts are way too much for a 60 size sport plane,come on. 400 bucks ? They aren't 'Robostrut capable" either, they are Robostrut only. They're nice gear for sure, but that's crazy money.
Robart has an electric set they told me about on the phone that are just like the pneumatics in the manual, and each and every time I've seen that very old plastic body design used on grass fields it has broken.
The E-Flites look to have been designed by modelers. They are all metal. They have two hardened steel set screws holding each high quality strut in the gear, and the struts already have perfect flats in them for the two set screws. They have 2 big ,hardened allen bolts on each bolt-on axle as well. Heck, they even come with very good wheel collars,and the motor/gearboxes are completely sealed from outside elemennt, fuel, etc.
To me that adds up to first rate and they've held up beautifully through 20 some landings on a field that is not very good.
My motor is mounted upright and it's been no hassle at all, it was a snap. It's a Rossi 60 w/Rossi tuned pipe. Doug
PS-I love how retracts improve performance, how they make the plane 'feel' and how they look. But to newer guys know this- Having a plane with retracts fly off-on a grass field and eventually even a paved one and expecting to not have to fiddle with them a lot is as close to impossible as something can get . If you have retracts they'll need some maintenance,and they'll need it fairly often. Remember, I'm a fan of them now. It's all been thought of, it's all been tried. They've always taken some regular work and always will.

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/17/2012 11:29 PM

Huang

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The Robarts are really too expensive. They designed the electric around the old 590 pneumatic casing so it would be a direct swap. If you look at the mechanical, pneumatic and electric 590 series they are virtually identical except the actuators that push the trunnion. I didn't know they are robostrut *only*... in that case, yes close to $400 for the set!

Doug, did you have to silicon the wires on the nose gear or do anything to prevent vibration on your eflites? On the Phoenix 7 thread most have had problems with the nose gear. A very high number of repeated failures throughout the thread over the year. People seem to love them mechanically, but the electronics fail due to vibration or moisture.

I was thinking to only get the nose gear from Robart if you can mix and match the electric retracts... they are just like servos so what not?

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/18/2012 2:06 PM

Doug47

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I'd bet you could use one with the others, like you said, just like servos.
The nose gear hasn't caused me any problems as of yet, but it sure looks substantial enough for me, maybe they've been improved.
About the vibration...One thing that's really struck me is how darn smooth this airplane is regarding vibration, even at full throttle it doesn't viibrate half of what I expected. Maybe the Rossi's just a really well balanced engine, or that and a combination of a lot of things like a balanced prop, the tru-turn spinner, a substantial motor mount and firewalll, etc.
Regardless this thing doesn't vibrate enough in my opinion to wear much of anything out.
If that changes though I;ll post it up here right away. Doug

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/19/2012 3:14 AM

PatternPilot

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Saw the DB in person at Andersonville CPA contest today during practice.. looks good, some running 4 stroke and others running 2 strokes... we will see if fuel is a issue during the contest...

CPA#2

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/20/2012 6:10 AM

kochj

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quote:

ORIGINAL: patternflyer76

I fly SPA pattern, so tuned pipes are not allowed. Thanks:

Kevin

HUH,,,,No tuned pipes??? \
Isn't that was was run ALL the time back then?????
The idea was to go fast...and pipes did just that....
Wierd if this is true...

Also...Someone said the H9 P7 wasn't on par with the DB?...
I was looking at both, and value the imput...
Thanks..

Also,...The issue with the e-flite retracts .....It was caused by a loose wire on the board...
Guys were filling it with silicone.... It seemed toe make a big dif. in the failure rate...
Perhaps the factory has made this change....

< Message edited by kochj -- 5/20/2012 6:37 AM >

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/20/2012 1:53 PM

Doug47

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I agree on the tuned pipes. The one that came with my Rossi is of course well-matched to the motor so it has a very broad, easy to set needle. Only if you've never run one set up at the proper length for your motor should they ever be criticized. (The information for most any engine appropriate is widely available, from Macs for example and of course other owners.)
The reason being is the power increase is not a barely perceptible, 'well, maybe' thing. It's huge,and maybe most importantly it sounds righteous as hell

.
When I saw the initial post where someone had posted a picture of the Dirty Birdy ARF not more than 5 minutes elapsed before I ordered it. I love this crate. However, I wouldn;t turn my nose up on the Phoenix 7. Unless there was some huge disparity in build quality or something which I highly doubt coming from Horizon, the Phoenix 7 will be just as good as the original which iis to say it was the standard for many years and was nobody's dog, then or now.
I have to figure out how to get a bigger tank in my DB though. This 8 oz tank isn't cutting it at all. A good bit of most patterns is flown wide open and it's 50-50 whether , at least with this gas hog of a motor, will finish the routine in any pattern I've seen.
So, who's got the good fix on this ?

Doug

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/20/2012 2:34 PM

patternflyer76

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Doug47

I agree on the tuned pipes. The one that came with my Rossi is of course well-matched to the motor so it has a very broad, easy to set needle. Only if you've never run one set up at the proper length for your motor should they ever be criticized. (The information for most any engine appropriate is widely available, from Macs for example and of course other owners.)
The reason being is the power increase is not a barely perceptible, 'well, maybe' thing. It's huge,and maybe most importantly it sounds righteous as hell .
When I saw the initial post where someone had posted a picture of the Dirty Birdy ARF not more than 5 minutes elapsed before I ordered it. I love this crate. However, I wouldn;t turn my nose up on the Phoenix 7. Unless there was some huge disparity in build quality or something which I highly doubt coming from Horizon, the Phoenix 7 will be just as good as the original which iis to say it was the standard for many years and was nobody's dog, then or now.
I have to figure out how to get a bigger tank in my DB though. This 8 oz tank isn't cutting it at all. A good bit of most patterns is flown wide open and it's 50-50 whether , at least with this gas hog of a motor, will finish the routine in any pattern I've seen.
So, who's got the good fix on this ? Doug

I am not criticizing a tune pipe set up.

I use to run many tuned pipe set ups when I was young. I loved the sound, speed, and power increase once in the band. It was great times!!!!

I now fly SPA and I have to play by their rules. It does not bother me and I do believe it makes all things fair for all competitors in the SPA. So, no problem with the rules.

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/20/2012 2:55 PM

hrrcflyer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Doug47

So, who's got the good fix on this ? Doug

Doug47,

CHeck back earlier in the thread. Some of us are putting a Hayes 16oz oval tank in ours. This should be more than enough foy us to fly our planes as long as we want to, even with a fuel hungry motor..............

David

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/20/2012 3:06 PM

AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken

There is an easy fix for those of us wanting a 16oz tank.

Order the Sullivan S414 16oz cylindrical tank - not the round one that Tower sells. Pop out the tank formers, (mine popped right out with no effort) wrap the tank in 1/4'' foam and slide it in place. It fits like a glove.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11068112

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/20/2012 3:46 PM

energyman

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I am considering anther option for the tank capacity issue. I plan to leave the tank bulkheads in place, use the factory tank that fits through the firewall, and series a Dubro 8 ounce tank with the factory tank. The Dubro tank has a lip on the bottom that will allow the tank to sit directly behind the factory tank without pinching the fuel lines. The Dubro fits quite well behind the factory tank. To simplify the plumbing, I am also considering installing a fitting in the rear portionof the factory tank to be used for the vent line connection to the fill line of the Dubro tank. I haven't started the builid yet, and am waiting to see how the 16 ounce Sullivan tank works in other builds. Anyway, my thoughts.

Energyman

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/20/2012 6:21 PM

NM2K

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You know, after reading all of the debate and the work arounds, I'm beginning to remember why I dropped out of pattern in the first place. And here I am, stuck with brand new 20/20 vision, in both eyes, with nothing to put it to work on. (just kidding Lord - just kidding)

Oh shoot, what was I thinking about? (smile)

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***Now I remember what I was really trying to say. It does my heart good to have learned that by simply removing the tank support, there is now room for a traditional 16 oz. fuel tank. Lots of folks have either forgotten, or never learned to begin with, that no glow engine's fuel tank should be opermitted to contact any solid part of the model. Tank supports are for those newbies that simply do not know any better. Yes, designers go through a newbie phase too.

OEC/NM2K

< Message edited by NM2K -- 5/21/2012 5:25 AM >

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/21/2012 1:45 AM

Doug47

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quote:

CHeck back earlier in the thread. Some of us are putting a Hayes 16oz oval tank in ours. This should be more than enough foy us to fly our planes as long as we want to, even with a fuel hungry motor..............

Yipee ! Thank you !!! Doug

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/21/2012 1:47 AM

patternflyer76

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pics of 6s battery access area...

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/21/2012 3:40 AM

Ralph White

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Nick and I flew our DirtyBirdy this evening after working on it all weekend. It flys great. Only got one flight in because of a lighting storm coming in.

We ended up using our OS .61 RE engine. After several hours trying to get the engine to run and idle we gave up and took the pump off. Then we installed a new Perry pump. Engine ran exactly the same with the Perry pump. Would not idle. Out of frustration we took the carb off the OS and installed a carb off of an old Supertigre .61 S (all it has on it is a big S on one side). A friend had given it to me a couple years ago. The OS .61 RE runs perfect with the Supertrigre carb. The only problem now is that the needle valve jam nut leaks raw fuel when the OS is at idle. We are going to try a "T" and return line in the carb fuel line to see if that will stop the leak.

We are now ready for some practice for the Chicago Classic Contest at Fox Valley in St Charles, IL this coming weekend. Hope to see several of you there.

Ralph and Nick White

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/21/2012 1:50 PM

Doug47

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That sure sounds like something with the OS carburetor was the problem all along, instead of the pump, doesn't it ?Whatever is causing the motor not to start.idle is going to be something very simple, though certainly that doesn't always mean easy to find.

.
But it sure can be found. What I've seen out of those particular carbs is an o-ring on the main needle that looks good but isn't, and needing a very patient and high pressure hose clean up of al the passages in the carb itself.
That leak in the ST carb could very well be because it wasn't designed to process any sort of significantly boosted fuel supply.
I just hate to see you guys lose out on one very sweet running set-up on that O.S., the stock one, where whatever the problem is when you find it you may be tempted to rend your garmernts

.
Though not the same thing this reminded me of back in those long-ago days when a new guy would have a minor engine problem often they'd want to dive in and start 'adjusting" the pumps (!!!!).
In which case we'd be screaming 'No, don't do it !"

. Doug

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/21/2012 6:33 PM

stuntflyr

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I saw one of the new Rossi's on Saturday and it started easily and ran like the wind. It was on it's third tank. I like the old stuff until it won't work. Then it's time to find a nice modern replacement.
Chris...

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/21/2012 7:10 PM

AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken

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Speaking of alternatives, anyone have 11x7 or 11x8 RPM numbers on the OS .65AX? I've only seen one review that tested big props 12x7 and up.
I'm half way through setting up a .65AX on pipe and I'm already seeing 13,800 on the APC 11x8 and 14,400 on the APC 11x7 with the header at 5 3/4" (1 1/4" trimed off).

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/21/2012 8:18 PM

stuntflyr

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I don't know the numbers but I saw Robert Fish's Vertigo II re-engined to the OS 65 on a pipe turning an APC 11x8 and it just hauls, good vertical too.
Chris...

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/21/2012 9:03 PM

NM2K

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I don't understand why the engine makers drifted away from the 10cc displacement standard. What possible advantage is there in making a .65 versus a .61?

Ed Cregger

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/21/2012 9:16 PM

Ralph White

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I agree with you Ed. I'm sticking to a .61.
Ralph White

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/21/2012 9:31 PM

TonyF

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Simple. There are no events anymore that limit you to a 10cc or .61ci engine. Why not go larger? It is after all a marketing thing.

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/21/2012 11:15 PM

KLXMASTER14

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.61-.65.... who cares?

11/7 apc/15% nitro. 10cc Macs Quiet pipe=15,100-15,200

11/8 APC, same set-up= 14,100-14,200 Both of these #s on break-in fuel. Haven't checked since going to straight cool power. The only thing that I see touching is is either a YS or the new NovaRossi.

getting about 7 minutes out of a 16 oz. tank.

HP= Fuel consumption. I'm leaning toward fitting a 4oz. tank behind the 16 in series. it would be nice to be able to finish the pattern and have fuel left for a go-around.

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/21/2012 11:57 PM

TonyF

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I get the same numbers out of the Evo .60NX with the Perry pump and carb.

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/22/2012 3:59 AM

kochj

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The market has been quite hard on the Glow engine manufactures..

I have read that OS approach was to make many NEW types of motors in the
interest of selling "new design motors" to the public, rather than trying to sell
there same engines they have had for quite a few years now...

With the recent Engines I have seen come from them I wouldn't complain.

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RE: Dirty Birdy ARF - 5/22/2012 4:39 AM

KLXMASTER14

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The Evo hauls the mail. I am interested in your pump setup. I ran the backplate perry pumps (and large bore carbs) back in the day. They were the bomb. I am thinking about a tandem tank arrangement and the pump may be required to make it work.

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