RE: Home Brew After-Run Oil

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RE: Home Brew After-Run Oil - 4/12/2012 4:47 PM

spaceworm

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Actually there is Marvel Magic Oil and there is Marvel Magic Air Tool Oil (ATO). The latter is much more expensive, but I don't have any idea why. I think the idea of ATO is both lubrication and protection from the water that is likely in the air line from the compressor. Whether the ATO takes the water into solution or just isolates the metal parts from it is a "Mystery" to me. I use the ATO in my air tools, but I just use Dextron ATF in all my engines for an ARO with very good results.

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RE: Home Brew After-Run Oil - 4/12/2012 4:50 PM

djlyon

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I used Rislone or ATF for years and was very happy with both. About 2 years ago I started using Prolong SPL100 an AFMT. Now I am even happier. When I turn an engine over after it has sat unused for 6 months to a year it is as free as if it had last been run an hour ago. I never see the slightest sign of any corrosion any where in the engines.

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RE: Home Brew After-Run Oil - 4/12/2012 7:37 PM

turbo.gst

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When getting an engine out of storage, I have noticed that my ATF treated engines take longer to clean out than the Marvel Air Tool Oil. I don't take it apart or anythiing, I just flood the case with fuel, allowing it to soak for about 20 minutes on the test stand and rock it back and forth against compression - not turning it over. With the plug removed, I turn it thru by hand to remove the flood - then I bump it with the starter until nothing shoots out. Then install plug and start as normal. I do run it a little rich for a few minutes.

I have started to use the Air Tool for my current runners and the ATF's for long term storage. My defintion of long term is anything over one week because I will forget to go and put ATF in it. I have a friend that put a little Air Tool in them and put them away for an extended time ( 6 to 8 years) only to find that rust/ bad bearings claimed a few more victims. I have used air tool for long time storage, but I get my engines out every couple of months or so and fondle them and re-oil to put back into storage. After my friends experience, I changed to the ATF for long term. I know, I weird, but I love my engines. I have a huge collection that I'm not quiet thru with yet!

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RE: Home Brew After-Run Oil - 4/12/2012 7:41 PM

Sport_Pilot

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Recycled Flyer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Recycled Flyer

I too like ATF because it has high detergent content.

The detergent will hold in suspension any fluids that have settled on the engines internals ready for expulsion upon the next startup.

It will also stop castor from congealing if left too long and (just my opinion here) probably cut down on the amount of castor based varnish that can occur with high percentage castor oil fuels.

Detergent does not hold fluids in suspension, though some may also do that. By definition detergent removes and keeps solids in suspension, not fluids.

http://www.termwiki.com/EN:detergent_oil

The link provided quotes "An oil which keeps particles and contaminants in suspension and has ability to neutralize acids resulting from combustion process. "
And you don't see that 'contaminants' could be fluids?

Detergent by definition is a surfactant - just have a look at what that means.

Surfactant's allow a liquid to pick up solids and oil, it has nothing to do with mixing with other fluids. The contaminants mentioned were solids because detergents do not work with liquids other than oil. But oil detergent is not a surfactant, as it obviously does not allow water to pick up oil or solids.

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RE: Home Brew After-Run Oil - 4/12/2012 7:46 PM

spaceworm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: turbo.gst

I see you are from Midland. Whatever happened to Rattlesnake Raceway that Sharp and Hall from the Chapparal (sp) team worked out of in the mid/late 60's? I was at Midland once on business, and I saw the Chapparels at Sebring in 65, 66 and 67

. Then I got married.

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RE: Home Brew After-Run Oil - 4/12/2012 7:56 PM

Sport_Pilot

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Not sure what happened with this near dupilcate post.

< Message edited by Sport_Pilot -- 4/12/2012 8:19 PM >

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RE: Home Brew After-Run Oil - 4/12/2012 8:23 PM

Quikturn

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I've used ATF, Marvel Mystery oil and even some leftover Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil with good results. I also like to add a bit of castor oil to my after run oils to help keep lubricant on the bearings.

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RE: Home Brew After-Run Oil - 4/12/2012 8:34 PM

spaceworm

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ORIGINAL: guille2006

I think your "hydraulic transmission oil" would otherwise be known as ATF? Some manual transmissions (Porsche balk-ring synchronizer type) would be rendered inoperable by the MoS2 you added and MoS2 was counter-indicated by Porsche for that reason. But then, ATF was not (then) cited for use for manual trannies. I think, however, that the MoS2 might contaminate the glow plug element and accelerate it's demise? JMHT

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RE: Home Brew After-Run Oil - 4/12/2012 8:57 PM

Sport_Pilot

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quote:

I think, however, that the MoS2 might contaminate the glow plug element and accelerate it's demise?

Glow plug in a diesel?

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RE: Home Brew After-Run Oil - 4/12/2012 9:12 PM

spaceworm

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ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

quote:

I think, however, that the MoS2 might contaminate the glow plug element and accelerate it's demise?

Glow plug in a diesel?

Here is the posting by guille2006, I don't see "Diesel", but I do see "glow plug" But, Mercedes Diesels do have glow plugs, but not the type we use.

"Well; 7 to 5 year ago I used to sell an after run oil made of 98% hydraulic transmission oil + 2% molycote oil (basically a bi-sulfide of molybdenum + oil mixture). Result were EXCELENT!!!!!.
I carried on several test on the hydraulic transmission only wit two engines for comparison (supertigre 40); one with after run treatment, nothing for the other. Results were that, after some time (I have no the records here) the after runned one started as good as new while the second needed more handflips... there was a small rpm decrease too (maybe 200 rpm or so). Glow plug was substancially more clean on the first engine while the second one was more black.
Conclusion: Hydraulic oil is as good as any after run oil.
Hope my expereince it helps the the thread.
Cheers"

You been sniffing too much ether?

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RE: Home Brew After-Run Oil - 4/12/2012 9:25 PM

N1EDM

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The combination that I've been using was the one that was suggested by Clarence Lee (Engine Clinic). He just mentioned it again a couple of columns back. He should know. He's been designing engines since the 50's for airplanes and full sized race cars. I guess he should know.

Yes, he uses Marvel Mystery Oil, but the one that he uses is specifically for air tools, not the common MMO. That's because it has rust inhibitors in it for air toools. He mixes this 50/50 with common ATF. He doesn't recommend a specific brand of ATF. I didn't read all the posts, is there an ATF that is bad to use because it might attack some rubber parts in the carb?

In any event, his recipe is 50/50 MMO AIR TOOL OIL and ATF...

Just my $.02

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RE: Home Brew After-Run Oil - 4/13/2012 12:05 AM

peterburford

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It's a commonly used trick to completely fill methanol-fueled race car engines with ATF for storage in the off-season.
Peter

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RE: Home Brew After-Run Oil - 4/13/2012 2:08 AM

jessiej

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quote:

ORIGINAL: spaceworm

quote:

ORIGINAL: turbo.gst

I see you are from Midland. Whatever happened to Rattlesnake Raceway that Sharp and Hall from the Chapparal (sp) team worked out of in the mid/late 60's? I was at Midland once on business, and I saw the Chapparels at Sebring in 65, 66 and 67 . Then I got married.

Hall, Sharp and the Chaparells. What a great team and a great era of racing!

BTW I have many fond memories of Fredericksburg and the time when Mary Washington was an all woman's college.

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RE: Home Brew After-Run Oil - 4/13/2012 2:26 AM

hairy46

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I am an air tool oil guy, never a problem!

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RE: Home Brew After-Run Oil - 4/13/2012 6:35 AM

guille2006

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quote:

ORIGINAL: spaceworm

quote:

ORIGINAL: guille2006

I think your ''hydraulic transmission oil'' would otherwise be known as ATF? Some manual transmissions (Porsche balk-ring synchronizer type) would be rendered inoperable by the MoS2 you added and MoS2 was counter-indicated by Porsche for that reason. But then, ATF was not (then) cited for use for manual trannies. I think, however, that the MoS2 might contaminate the glow plug element and accelerate it's demise? JMHT

Spaceworm; thanks for your comment. I though the same aboutn the MoS2 but once I red that germasn used that on theirs mobile parts on tanks due to its protective characteristics. Well, I asked a chemicla engineer about that (I'm aernautical engineer, not 100% qualified on the issue) and he confirmed that property... also advice me a % to mix on a particlar oil tht I neveer found. The closest I get was that hydraulic transmission one... after a carefuel reading aboutn it sproperties, I concluded that it was enough for an after run and the adding of molicote (or MoS2)would only help. In fact, the test demonstated I was right!!! A good ATF (red, in my case) works great as a protector agent!!!
Hope it helps...
CHeers

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RE: Home Brew After-Run Oil - 4/13/2012 12:55 PM

Sport_Pilot

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quote:

ORIGINAL: spaceworm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

quote:

I think, however, that the MoS2 might contaminate the glow plug element and accelerate it's demise?

Glow plug in a diesel?

Here is the posting by guille2006, I don't see "Diesel", but I do see "glow plug" But, Mercedes Diesels do have glow plugs, but not the type we use.

"Well; 7 to 5 year ago I used to sell an after run oil made of 98% hydraulic transmission oil + 2% molycote oil (basically a bi-sulfide of molybdenum + oil mixture). Result were EXCELENT!!!!!.
I carried on several test on the hydraulic transmission only wit two engines for comparison (supertigre 40); one with after run treatment, nothing for the other. Results were that, after some time (I have no the records here) the after runned one started as good as new while the second needed more handflips... there was a small rpm decrease too (maybe 200 rpm or so). Glow plug was substancially more clean on the first engine while the second one was more black.
Conclusion: Hydraulic oil is as good as any after run oil.
Hope my expereince it helps the the thread.
Cheers"

You been sniffing too much ether?

I thought this was a diesel thread? IMO any petrol oil is a poor afterun oil in a glow engine because it will not mix with residual fuel. I have had corrosion from such use where the oil traped fuel and moisture. It makes a good storage oil when applied well after all fuel has evoporated. But for diesels I would think the petrol oils would work just fine.

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RE: Home Brew After-Run Oil - 4/13/2012 1:07 PM

Sport_Pilot

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quote:

That's because it has rust inhibitors in it for air toools. He mixes this 50/50 with common ATF. He doesn't recommend a specific brand of ATF.

Here is the MSDS with all ingrediants listed.

http://www.imperialsupplies.com/msds0076050.shtml

Ortho-dichlorobenzene appears to be the only additive. It is not really a rust inhibitor, but a solvent that will disolve carbon deposits, probably to prevent oxidised oil from sticking to hot parts.

Also there is a large amount of mineral spirits so it will thicken over time. Probably a good after run oil for diesels but not glow. Poor long term storage oil unless the engine is kept in an airtight container.

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