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Hyperion 0606i charging NiMH problems - 4/24/2012 3:32 PM   
cloud_master


 

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Hello.  I have the above mentioned charger, that I have been using primarily for charging my lipo batteries.  It does a fine job with those, no problems.  However, I have been having mixed results when using this charger to charge my NiMH receiver and transmitter battery packs.  I have been charging my 2000Mah at .2amps and discharging at .50amps.  I have the sensitivity set to 3mv.  What I've found when I put it on the cycle, it will not charge all the way, and apparently is detecting false peaks.  Yesterday, it literally put in 300mah into a 2300mah battery and stopped and said it was done.  Subsequent tries and I can sometimes get it to discharge and charge all the way back up.  But it's rare.  I had troubles last year with different batteries and decided to go back to my good old faithful Futaba wall charger.  Of course, with this I don't actually know when it's full charged.  I'm looking for some suggestions with this Hyperion Charger.  Maybe it just is deficient at charging the NiMH, and I need to look elsewhere for charging anything but my lipos.  Not sure. 

Anyone been here before with this charger?  Mine is about a year old. 



< Message edited by cloud_master -- 4/24/2012 10:32 PM >

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RE: Hyperion 0606i charging NiMH problems - 4/24/2012 8:10 PM   
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Status: offline 		You could try increasing the delta peak sensitivity to something above 3mV. When charging at that low current, I would go by temperature to determine a good delta peak setting. At the end of the charge, the cells should be a little warm; not hot and not cool. If hot, the delta setting is too high. If cool, the delta setting is too low. So, it might take a little trial and error to get it set right.

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RE: Hyperion 0606i charging NiMH problems - 4/24/2012 10:31 PM   
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Status: offline 		I could try that.  What setting would you recommend? 

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RE: Hyperion 0606i charging NiMH problems - 4/25/2012 1:03 PM   
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Status: offline 		i think it's 4-5mV for nimh and 7mV for nicad

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RE: Hyperion 0606i charging NiMH problems - 4/25/2012 3:25 PM   
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Status: offline 		Charging at .2A and discharge at .5A     why at rates so low?

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RE: Hyperion 0606i charging NiMH problems - 4/25/2012 3:42 PM   
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Status: offline 		Probably because the NiMHs he's working with are transmitter/receiver packs. Depending on the cell brand/quality, certain batteries respond better to lower charge/discharge rates. For instance, I have some Turnigy LSD (low self-discharge) AA batteries rated for something like 2300mAh. But I monitored the cells at various charge/discharge rates and found that a ~0.2C charge and ~0.5C discharge rates yield the best performance and most usable capacity with little to no heating.

Or maybe he's not in a hurry.

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RE: Hyperion 0606i charging NiMH problems - 4/25/2012 4:18 PM   
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Status: offline 		Yeah, i'm not a big fan of fast charging.  I have no scientific data that says fast charging is bad, other than my own opinion.  Yes, I am referring to my ignition/rx/tx batteries.  In fact, I usually do not charge my lipos faster than a 1C rate either. 

On another note, I did try discharging and charging my RX again and got better results.  Still on 3mv sensitivity. I was able to get a 2150Mah charge last night.  I am discharging and trying it again.   

I don't know if I found a correlation or not, but it seems if I am pushing the "batt type" buttom and scrolling to look at data as the charger is charging/discharging i is messing with the process.  If it was charging, it will soon stop there after.  For example, I had the rx battery charging over night, currently still charging and had put in 1600Mah.  I scrolled through to find out what the discharge capacity was and then returned it to the main charge screen.  About a minute later, the charging beeped and ended, approximately 6.9v on my 5cell mimh.  I knew it wasn't done yet, as it was a 2300mah battery. 

Seems pretty goofy, I know. 



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RE: Hyperion 0606i charging NiMH problems - 4/25/2012 4:19 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: trax de max

i think it's 4-5mV for nimh and 7mV for nicad


Something you read somewhere, or just an opinion?


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RE: Hyperion 0606i charging NiMH problems - 4/25/2012 4:23 PM   
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Status: offline 		Hmm, that is odd. I have two Hyperion chargers (old EOS7i and a newer EOS 0615 duo 3+) and switching display screens doesn't affect the charge process on either of them.

One other thing to check is your power supply. If the 12v DC supply is "noisy" (meaning, it has excessive AC ripple), that could cause random weirdness in the charger's logic circuits - it does contain a "computer" of sorts after all. Either check the supply output with a meter set to A/C to see how much noise is present, or just try a different 12v supply. Since you are charging at such low rates, even a small 2-3A 12v supply would be enough for this test.

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RE: Hyperion 0606i charging NiMH problems - 4/25/2012 5:09 PM   
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Status: offline 		mine has the a/c plug in.........

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RE: Hyperion 0606i charging NiMH problems - 4/25/2012 5:53 PM   
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Status: offline 		Yeah, I guess if I wasn't so lazy to look I would've seen that.

But, you can still test it by not using the built-in supply and hooking up the 12v leads to a car battery or 12v power supply.

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RE: Hyperion 0606i charging NiMH problems - 4/25/2012 7:20 PM   
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False peaks are common, sometimes almost the norm. I've found I have to 'hit' my nimh packs with a burst if 1C-2C to 'wake them up', puts a little heat in them and allows a better chance to avoid a false peak. I have a 10-cell 3,000 ma pack I 'hit' with 3A for 5 minutes, disconnect, then charge at .3C-.6C for what is hopefully a full charge. Even after doing that, it may false peak after 30 minutes to an hour of charge, 1 out of 5 I'd say. Just be persistent, they can be persnickety.

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RE: Hyperion 0606i charging NiMH problems - 4/25/2012 7:53 PM   
cloud_master


 

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Status: offline 		I was thinking the charger was goofy, but maybe it's just the PITA battery packs.........  I dunno.

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RE: Hyperion 0606i charging NiMH problems - 4/25/2012 8:22 PM   
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Status: offline 		Set your peak to 5 mV.  if you are charging from a supply you may get some false peaks, especially if you have voltage fluctuations or an internal supply that is a "switcher."  Linear supplies are typically cleaner, but heavy.  Switchers are light, but may be a bit noisey.  Given that, set your peak a bit higher than the default which is likely 5mV on most chargers for NiMh.  if you are worried about overcharging you can go by temp and set a timer so it charges no more than X minutes.

After a day of flying I set my charger for 10 hours at 1/10C.  Apparently you can charge up to 1C, but I don't like fast charging - just my personal preference.


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RE: Hyperion 0606i charging NiMH problems - 4/26/2012 12:48 PM   
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Status: offline 		You are only charging at 0.1C when charging at 200 milliamperes. You are correct in that this is much healthier for your batteries; you will get many more charge/discharge cycles when you charge your batteries at the lower rates than the fast charging guys get. However, at 0.1C you will not get the typical voltage depression at full charge like you get when fast charging so peak detection is pretty much not usable at these low charge rates. The good thing is that you will not damage the cells by overcharging if you leave then on charge for an extended period, in fact, occasionally leaving them on charge for 15 to 16 hours at 0.1C is a good thing as it insures that the cells are well balanced.

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RE: Hyperion 0606i charging NiMH problems - 5/26/2012 12:36 PM   
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quote:

You are only charging at 0.1C when charging at 200 milliamperes. You are correct in that this is much healthier for your batteries; you will get many more charge/discharge cycles when you charge your batteries at the lower rates than the fast charging guys get. However, at 0.1C you will not get the typical voltage depression at full charge like you get when fast charging so peak detection is pretty much not usable at these low charge rates. The good thing is that you will not damage the cells by overcharging if you leave then on charge for an extended period, in fact, occasionally leaving them on charge for 15 to 16 hours at 0.1C is a good thing as it insures that the cells are well balanced.


Wow- I've been charging my nimh packs slow like this (on Hyperion 0606i) and never understood why they would not stop charging automatically within reasonable amount of time. If fact, they will take in more capacity than rated before I stop the charge manually. Had no idea the voltage depresion wasn't large enough for the charger to detect. Thanks!

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RE: Hyperion 0606i charging NiMH problems - 5/26/2012 4:12 PM   
eddieC



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quote:

Had no idea the voltage depresion wasn't large enough for the charger to detect.  


I think the proper term is 'peak detection' for what's not being reached when overnight charging. Also watch out for 'false peaks' with Nimhs. Depression is caused by prolonged 'overnight' charging, which can damage the cells.

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