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RE: How many airports? - 4/26/2012 9:35 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

I'm betting that the threshold will be if it is depicted and a VFR Sectional or Terminal Area Chart.

You can view aviation sectionals and other charts here:

http://www.skyvector.com



That could be confusing as I do not believe their is a 5 mile circle around any airport.  4 nauticle miles yes.  I don't think they have had a 5 statute mile airspace for some time.

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RE: How many airports? - 4/26/2012 9:35 PM   
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RE: How many airports? - 4/26/2012 10:36 PM   
ira d


 

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Since when does the Federal government notify us of anything?



If they want modelers to be aware of airports then it's just common sense they would post a list of airports we need to notify
of rc activity within the five mile limit. My guess is if there no tower at the airport or very few flights in and out the rule may not
apply.

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RE: How many airports? - 4/26/2012 10:48 PM   
ira d


 

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And they fly in real slow and are able to see and avoid better than any other aircraft.

The rule is that we see and avoid them, not vice versa. If a full scale plane aircraft gets close enough to a model in flight to see it, the modeler has screwed up, nearly always. I am familiar with only two cases in which a model hit a full-scale aircraft. One of the two full-scale aircraft was a helicopter. I doubt that the FAA will make a special rule for helicopters.

As for the sectional charts, there are many more airports than there are airports shown on these. (In my county, one on the sectional chart (two until recently) out of thirteen.) It would be remarkable if the list of airports we have to contact turns out not to include at least everything shown on the sectional charts. But we'll see. Section 336 clearly contemplates notices to uncontrolled airports, as it refers specifically to controlled airports as requiring special treatment (notifying the tower in addition to the airport operator). And there's at least as much reason to notify small airports as large ones.



I know of three flying sites that have a fair amount of full scale activity in their area and the full scale can be close enough to see
the models but there has been no conflict and modelers have not screwed up in any way.

Also as has already been said it also the repsponsibility of the full scale to see and avoid and that is the way it should be four eyes
are better than two and if I was a full scale pilot I would be on the look out for models if I thought they were in the area.

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RE: How many airports? - 4/26/2012 11:02 PM   
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My guess is if there no tower at the airport or very few flights in and out the rule may not
apply.


I don't think it's possible to read section 336 as not applying to uncontrolled airports. That section provides two rules about who gets contacted: the airport operator in all cases, and the tower also, if there is one. Nobody would write a rule that way if they meant that only airports with towers were intended. So the clear meaning of that provision is that it applies to at least some uncontrolled airports. As for airports with "very few flights in and out," how could that line be drawn? The only practical way I can think of would be to limit the contact requirement to the airports that are on the sectional charts (and the terminal area charts, which I keep forgetting to mention). We can hardly be expected to make our own counts of traffic, and the FAA certainly isn't going to do it for us.

I hope the AMA is paying attention to these questions. About all I see in Model Aviation is them congratulating themselves on getting section 336 adopted and worrying about whether the FAA may still try to sneak in a 400-foot rule somehow. I think we're supposed to get proposed rulemaking this summer, but it keeps getting put off.



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RE: How many airports? - 4/26/2012 11:28 PM   
ira d


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Top_Gunn

quote:

My guess is if there no tower at the airport or very few flights in and out the rule may not
apply.


I don't think it's possible to read section 336 as not applying to uncontrolled airports. That section provides two rules about who gets contacted: the airport operator in all cases, and the tower also, if there is one. Nobody would write a rule that way if they meant that only airports with towers were intended. So the clear meaning of that provision is that it applies to at least some uncontrolled airports. As for airports with "very few flights in and out," how could that line be drawn? The only practical way I can think of would be to limit the contact requirement to the airports that are on the sectional charts (and the terminal area charts, which I keep forgetting to mention). We can hardly be expected to make our own counts of traffic, and the FAA certainly isn't going to do it for us.

I hope the AMA is paying attention to these questions. About all I see in Model Aviation is them congratulating themselves on getting section 336 adopted and worrying about whether the FAA may still try to sneak in a 400-foot rule somehow. I think we're supposed to get proposed rulemaking this summer, but it keeps getting put off.




You make a good point but I do think at some point the FAA will release a list of airports and their contact info that we would need to contact it
may be all airports or some we will just have to wait and see.


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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 1:44 AM   
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I don't see any value on worrying about this till the regulations are written.


I AGREE! stop worrying and go fly! =)

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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 2:20 AM   
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ORIGINAL: blhollo2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

I don't see any value on worrying about this till the regulations are written.


I AGREE! stop worrying and go fly! =)


Absolutely, the revised new safety guidelines aren't scheduled to go into effect until September 31, 2015.  that's a lot of airplane flying time.  So enjoy and don't sweat unless it is a hot day at the field.





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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 4:06 AM   
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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 4:47 AM   
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Status: offline 		The NPRM won't even be published unti July, IF it doesn't get pushed back again. We have no idea what we will be required to do until that is published, the public comment period has passed, any revisions are made and the final rule published. Even after it's published that final rule won't have be enforceable until its actual effective date.

At this point all we can do is speculate.

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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 4:58 AM   
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Where's Kid Epoxy?



Maybe his computer crashed. 

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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 12:15 PM   
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You make a good point but I do think at some point the FAA will release a list of airports and their contact info that we would need to contact it may be all airports or some we will just have to wait and see.


Would the FAA be allowed to publish contact info for single owner private airports?  You know the simple grass field that sombody owns behind their house and not required to follow FAA airport regulations.  Would not the privacy act require the owners permission for thier phone number and address to be published?



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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 12:17 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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ORIGINAL: blhollo2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

I don't see any value on worrying about this till the regulations are written.


I AGREE! stop worrying and go fly! =)



LOL, I should follow my own recomendation!

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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 1:11 PM   
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quote:

You make a good point but I do think at some point the FAA will release a list of airports and their contact info that we would need to contact it may be all airports or some we will just have to wait and see.


Would the FAA be allowed to publish contact info for single owner private airports?  You know the simple grass field that sombody owns behind their house and not required to follow FAA airport regulations.  Would not the privacy act require the owners permission for thier phone number and address to be published?



This information is on the Airport Master Record, which you can find on the FAA's web site. What do you mean by saying these airports are "not required to follow FAA airport regulations"? Of course they are.

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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 2:58 PM   
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Status: offline 		OK HERES ANOTHER ONE MY CLUB IS 1000 FEET FROM A GLIDER CLUB> NO PROBLEM> NOW THE GLIDER CLUB WANTS TO GO RADIO> 2.4 STILL NO PROBLEM> NOW SOME OF THE GLIDER GUYS WANT TO GO 72> NOW A BIG PROBLEM>>THEY WANT OUR NITRO FIELD TO COME TO THERE FIELD> PUT A PIN ON THERE BOARD TO TELL WHAT WE ARE FLYING ON AND WHEN DONE COME BACK AND TAKE IT OFF>>THEY WILL DO THE SAME COME TO OUR FIELD>OUR NITRO FIELD SAID OK> I SAID NO >I LOST>I WILL NOT DO WHAT THEY ASKED US TO DO > SOME WILL WILL GET SHOT DOWN > IS THERE ANY THING IN THE AMA THAT CAN STOP THIS THANK YOU ALLEN

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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 3:16 PM   
ira d


 

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ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

quote:

You make a good point but I do think at some point the FAA will release a list of airports and their contact info that we would need to contact it may be all airports or some we will just have to wait and see.


Would the FAA be allowed to publish contact info for single owner private airports?  You know the simple grass field that sombody owns behind their house and not required to follow FAA airport regulations.  Would not the privacy act require the owners permission for thier phone number and address to be published?




I dont know you may be right time will tell.

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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 3:28 PM   
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OK HERES ANOTHER ONE MY CLUB IS 1000 FEET FROM A GLIDER CLUB> NO PROBLEM> NOW THE GLIDER CLUB WANTS TO GO RADIO> 2.4 STILL NO PROBLEM> NOW SOME OF THE GLIDER GUYS WANT TO GO 72> NOW A BIG PROBLEM>>THEY WANT OUR NITRO FIELD TO COME TO THERE FIELD> PUT A PIN ON THERE BOARD TO TELL WHAT WE ARE FLYING ON AND WHEN DONE COME BACK AND TAKE IT OFF>>THEY WILL DO THE SAME COME TO OUR FIELD>OUR NITRO FIELD SAID OK> I SAID NO >I LOST>I WILL NOT DO WHAT THEY ASKED US TO DO > SOME WILL WILL GET SHOT DOWN > IS THERE ANY THING IN THE AMA THAT CAN STOP THIS THANK YOU ALLEN



They cannot make arbitrary demands like that. The AMA requires that when two clubs are that close that they work out a frequency agreement. I would contact the District VP and talk to him. BTW, which clubs are you talking about in Hemet. I am not aware of any glider clubs in that area. What do you mean they "want to go radio"? Is this a FF club?

Here's the rule from the Safety Code:

quote:

5. RC model aircraft will not operate within three (3) miles of any pre-existing flying site without a frequency-management agreement (AMA Documents #922-
Testing for RF Interference; #923- Frequency Management Agreement)


These documents may help:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/105.pdf

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/923.pdf

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/twopointfouragreement.pdf


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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 3:39 PM   
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Status: offline 		yes there is a ff club i belong to the riverside rc club we are east of the 215 right across from the paris air port now these guys will have to join the ama to do radio>??

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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 3:47 PM   
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Status: offline 		THIS IS A FF CLUB THEY ARE EAST OF THE 215 ACROSS FROM THE PARIS AIRPORT BEEN THERE FOR YEARS ITS THAT SOME OF THEM WANT TO PUT RADIOS IN THERE GLIDERS> 2.4 IS OK BUT SOME WANT TO USE 72 WHICH IS A NO NO >> BUT OUR CLUB SAID OK> AND WE THE RIVERSIDE RC CLUB IS ONLT A 1000 FEET FROM THEM>>

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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 3:55 PM   
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Status: offline 		thans for the info i made a copy to show at our next meeting allen

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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 4:10 PM   
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ORIGINAL: neaew@msn.com">oneaew@msn.com

OK HERES ANOTHER ONE MY CLUB IS 1000 FEET FROM A GLIDER CLUB> NO PROBLEM> NOW THE GLIDER CLUB WANTS TO GO RADIO> 2.4 STILL NO PROBLEM> NOW SOME OF THE GLIDER GUYS WANT TO GO 72> NOW A BIG PROBLEM>>THEY WANT OUR NITRO FIELD TO COME TO THERE FIELD> PUT A PIN ON THERE BOARD TO TELL WHAT WE ARE FLYING ON AND WHEN DONE COME BACK AND TAKE IT OFF>>THEY WILL DO THE SAME COME TO OUR FIELD>OUR NITRO FIELD SAID OK> I SAID NO >I LOST>I WILL NOT DO WHAT THEY ASKED US TO DO > SOME WILL WILL GET SHOT DOWN > IS THERE ANY THING IN THE AMA THAT CAN STOP THIS THANK YOU ALLEN

Allen,
A survey of the 72Mhz frequencies in use by the RC club will yield frequencies that are not in use that may be used by the FF/glider club. Dividing up the frequencies between the two clubs will work a lot better than you pin my board and I’ll pin your board. Let us know how this turns out.

Regards
Frank

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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 4:17 PM   
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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 4:20 PM   
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Status: offline 		What this main post is about...."can I go fly and not be bothered by others and the DO GOODER/COP wanabees... when I do?"

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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 5:46 PM   
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What do you mean by saying these airports are "not required to follow FAA airport regulations"? Of course they are


No they aren't.  Only airports revieving federal funding, or certified for air carrier operations are required to follow FAA regulations.  Many airport regulations are in the form of AC's and are voluntary unless recieving federal funds.

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RE: How many airports? - 4/27/2012 6:00 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

quote:

You make a good point but I do think at some point the FAA will release a list of airports and their contact info that we would need to contact it may be all airports or some we will just have to wait and see.


Would the FAA be allowed to publish contact info for single owner private airports?  You know the simple grass field that sombody owns behind their house and not required to follow FAA airport regulations.  Would not the privacy act require the owners permission for thier phone number and address to be published?



This information is on the Airport Master Record, which you can find on the FAA's web site. What do you mean by saying these airports are "not required to follow FAA airport regulations"? Of course they are.


Actually I am refering to small unimproved airports where the user has never filed with the FAA.  However even on the master record there are airports with no telephone record.


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