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do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/3/2012 6:48 AM   
suzonka


 

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Status: offline 		I have a balsa house , spitfire zero, with a 15 glow engine , its 1/12th scale and in order t get the cg properly set on the wing, I would have to add a lot of up front weight, Is this common among war birds?

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/3/2012 9:21 AM   
mlawrencemsc



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Status: offline 		No there all different

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/3/2012 10:30 AM   
suzonka


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mlawrencemsc

No there all different

well I have the receiver and fuel tank forward ,the battery and 2mall sevos over the middle wing spar , I cant move any thing else up .my only gain is to move the landing gerar up and drill holes inthe tail area to lighten the tail ,what do ya think?

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/3/2012 11:55 AM   
Dash7ATP



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Do what you can to keep the tail light. As for drilling holes in the tail, that might help some at the risk of making it weaker. If you have moved your batteries, fuel tank and servos as far forward as possible, than just add whatever weight you might need to bring it into balance. You might just have a very light engine, and that's OK also. The added weight is not just "dead weight".  It's necessary for the model to fly. Just keep the added weight as far forward as possible to keep it at a minimum. 

You can consider a larger engine which might weigh more, but it will probably detract from the overall appearance.

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/3/2012 12:35 PM   
guamflyer


 

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Status: offline 		Well man , it's like what was just said..Ya gotta get the CG where it's supposed to be to fly right...
like I heard before somewhere... A nose heavy plane doesn't fly well ,  but  A tail heavy plane doesn't fly long...


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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/3/2012 12:43 PM   
carlbecker



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Status: offline 		Common yes. It depends on the plane though. You can reduce ballast by checking ahead and planning. Place heavy items as far forward as possible. I just added 100 grams to the front of a BH Macchi C200. 79" ws at 11 pounds with a light Laser 120 up front. When I build a larger C200 I will keep the tail lighter and not add any ballast but I will be using a heavy radial to help.

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/3/2012 12:45 PM   
Brad330l



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Status: offline 		I have a couple of warbirds now and the way I set them up I need no or very little extra/dead weight up front.
It can be done. With my Yellow Aircraft Spitfire I had to move the battery packs back six inches to get the proper CG.
My ESM 109 has very minimal lead up front as I totally redesigned how all the gear was placed in the model. This is with a full cockpit and a full pilot.

Must get weight forward!!!

Good luck,

Brad

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/3/2012 3:15 PM   
ticketec


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: carlbecker

Common yes. It depends on the plane though. You can reduce ballast by checking ahead and planning. Place heavy items as far forward as possible. I just added 100 grams to the front of a BH Macchi C200. 79'' ws at 11 pounds with a light Laser 120 up front. When I build a larger C200 I will keep the tail lighter and not add any ballast but I will be using a heavy radial to help.


+1,

My 80" ESM Fw-190D needed no additional weight up front, but will once I add the retractable tailwheel etc.....

Thanks

dave

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/3/2012 3:24 PM   
exeter_acres



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Status: offline 		One thing to remember with warbirds is that if they are close to scale......

the full scale airframes had HUGE engines on the nose.... Lots of weight up there. Big Merlin's whatever.....

with our models.. the proportions as to size and shape are similar but the nose weight is not near the same(weight of model power systems)... hence the common need for a bit of extra weight

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/3/2012 6:29 PM   
alanc


 

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Status: offline 		could not have put it better myself,   only way round this is to cheapen the design, flat plate tailplanes, film covering,  longer cowls,   the more scale you get, the more chances of having to add weight their is,    if you are scratch building, or even from a kit,    it is always better to have a good look at the design, and drill a few holes, 

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/3/2012 8:29 PM   
hellcat56



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ask people who fly warbirds

exeter_acres is exactly correct in WHY

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/3/2012 9:13 PM   
vertical grimmace



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Status: offline 		Put a .25 FX on it! then it will balance. Those planes are a ton of fun

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/3/2012 9:19 PM   
Meschmidt


 

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/3/2012 9:32 PM   
91zulu



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Status: offline 		YES, about 95% of the time warbirds need weight up front to balance. The shorter the nose the more weight it needs. Quite often guys make swiss cheese out of the tail in order so as not to put any or as little weight up front. How ever it is the nature of the beast. Weight is needed most times no matter the size, big or small.

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/3/2012 10:06 PM   
OldFart1


 

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Status: offline 		Two of mine (26cc 1/7 scale P-47 and YS120 1/8 scale F6F) required none. My 60 sized P-51B (YS110) required tail weight

All of the others took weight in the nose, with the Dr.1 being the worst offender (generally most planes that were radials in real life seem to be problem children as far as CG)

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/3/2012 11:21 PM   
Merlin Man


 

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Status: offline 		  Hi,
              I have built many P51's of various sizes and none have required nose weight. In fact the Platt 1/5 scale needed me to arrange batteries and servos towards the rear to avoid having to add tailweight.

             The Spitfires I have built ,on the other hand, all required noseweight.

                Cheers,
               Merlin Man.

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/4/2012 1:09 AM   
flycatch


 

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Status: offline 		Most if not all radial scale WWII airframes require additional ballast up front. This is due to the short moment arm from the front of the cowl to the CG location on the wing. Adding dead weight is the last thing you want to do. Another poster mentioned to install a larger engine. This additional weight of the replacement engine should help but not always solve the problem. This problem is common to these airframes. One poster claims he added no additoinal ballast weight in his ESM FW190 and I would wish he explain how this was accomplished.

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/4/2012 1:53 AM   
cloudancer03


 

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Status: offline 		dont worry about..yeah warbirds commonly ,but not always need nose weight.Its inherent with the design but it doesnt mean its bad ! arrange your gear ,tanks receiver and anything else you can to create a good balance.try a higley nose weight .do whatever it takes but do it 'cause the worst thing is to try to fly without the weight balanced.not all warbirds need nose weight but it often happens and its just something to be aware of when you build.

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/4/2012 4:41 AM   
glazier808



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Status: online 		Flycatch,

I think you don't like ESM ??? lol

My 109E from ESM was balanced with two 5 cell 5000/65c battery packs behind the firewall. The reciever battery(6 volt) sits just in front of the cockpit(I actually moved it back from the motor standoffs)...I was not even close to adding any dead weight.

Some warbirds do, some dont...

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/4/2012 11:11 AM   
suzonka


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dash7ATP

suzonka


Do what you can to keep the tail light. As for drilling holes in the tail, that might help some at the risk of making it weaker. If you have moved your batteries, fuel tank and servos as far forward as possible, than just add whatever weight you might need to bring it into balance. You might just have a very light engine, and that's OK also. The added weight is not just ''dead weight''.  It's necessary for the model to fly. Just keep the added weight as far forward as possible to keep it at a minimum. 

You can consider a larger engine which might weigh more, but it will probably detract from the overall appearance.

Dash  


yes Dash7ATP

thats the problem the engine is light how ever powerful ,but will fly if I just get the CG right

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/4/2012 11:16 AM   
suzonka


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad330l

I have a couple of warbirds now and the way I set them up I need no or very little extra/dead weight up front.
It can be done. With my Yellow Aircraft Spitfire I had to move the battery packs back six inches to get the proper CG.
My ESM 109 has very minimal lead up front as I totally redesigned how all the gear was placed in the model. This is with a full cockpit and a full pilot.

Must get weight forward!!!

Good luck,

Brad

thank you, now when I get my CG right, I noticed the vertcal tail fin on a spitfire seems very small,so to gain more stability would it be a good ideal to make the tail fin a bit larger?

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RE: do all warbirds need extra nose weight - 5/4/2012 1:05 PM   
carlbecker



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Status: offline 		Increasing tail area can work as well as moving CG forward because of small tail area. Your choice for the best method, exact scale or possible lighter plane.

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