Ten41

Hello all. First off, Ihave done my best to review the previous forum posts, but Ihave gotten bogged down a bit. So, if I re-hash something that someone else has done, I apologize.

My background is a new HL tank owner (BB) who wishes to do IRbattle. At this time I see little need for Tamiya compatability. We live too far out in the boonies to drive to a club meet. This would be battle between my boys and I. As I have 6, in various stages of life, I will eventually have enough for a great amount of fun.

I am looking for an inexpensive IR upgrade. While it might be nice to have such things as gun recoil, that is not a requirement. Generally, speaking, we want to shoot, and be shot. I have been looking at Darkith's kits, as they seem relatively inexpensive (as things go) and well featured. I was wondering though, what was involved with the HL IRkits. I have found incomplete information online, so don't know if it is just a few pieces (Apple, IR, etc.) and I would be off and running, or not.

Any information that you can give me on this would be appreciated.

ausf

The HL IR system is pretty simple, I think the apple is $11 and you can get the IR wiring harness and go. It's a bit crude, the tank jiggles when hit, no LED indication. I swapped mine out for one of Darkith's DBC-RC2s and it's much better. I also just plugged in into an airsoft Pz IV and it works great, you just need to get an IR emitter LED. The added ability to battle and pelt your opponent at the same time.

It's Tamiya compatible (I know that doesn't matter to you) but it also has better sensors for more range. One thing you might run up against with HL is they only offer 5 frequencies (I don't know if other crystals can be used in HL) so you may run out of options with 7 tanks. The DBC RC will allow for different radios.

Panther G

Actually HL has 10  available channels/ Chrystal sets now. I know you do not hear of it often but they do have them from 1 - 10. Phil at RCTankWars I think can get all the channel sets and possibly MATO. If you just want  to play run and gun with your boys then yes the HL IR upgrades will probably be adequate for that style of play. As you and your boys get older then you may want to look into the more capable Tamiya compatible systems as the realism is much greater and actually alot more fun. The HL system is for  a lack of a better word [ because I dont want to offend the HL IR guys] toyish in it's operation.

Ten41

That helps! I am leaning towards Darkith's DBC/DBU setup, we will see... Thanks everyone.

hongrn

The DBC/DBU upgrades from RC Tank Wars are quite pricey, almost the price of a new Heng Long IR tank. Is the upgrade worth the price, or would any of you go for a new IR tank? What are the pros and cons? Thanks for your replies.

Hong

Ten41

I agree that the rctankwars DBC/DBU setup is close to the cost of an HL IR capable tank.  On their site the IR Panther G is $130.  Of course, it will not work with Tamiya, but that was not a requirement for me anyway.  If you purchase the DBC/DBU from Darkith directly, you can purchase it in kit form for about $75.

Other than that, I see (approximately) $55 HL IR upgrades, say from Matomart, or ozarmor.  With those they include another RX-18 and receiver board, which I do not need.

My biggest issue is that I already have an HL Panther G (BB version).  I could buy an IR version, move any parts that I so wished over, and sell the resulting tank.  That could certainly be an option for me that I had not thought of.

In the end, I believe that for an individual you will have to balance cost, Tamiya compatibility, etc..

What is it that you are looking for?  I see that you live in CA, and I would assume that you would have a large amount of Tank clubs where you could do battle!

hongrn

Ten41,

No time for clubs because of my work schedule, so I'm just looking at doing battle with my nephews (I've got 2 daughters, so tanks look gross to them). Tamiya compatibility is not necessary, since I only have HL tanks. Do you have a link for Darkith's kits? Thanks for your reply.

Hong

Ten41

Dave's website for DBC/DBU is here: http://darkith.dyndns.org/~darkith/html/dbc.shtml

I could not get the editor link option to work, so you may have to copy/paste into your browser.

Good luck on this!

ausf

The kits are very easy to assemble. I used an old beat up $5 iron with no problem. The IC chip snaps into a holder, so you can't overheat it while soldering. It's not just for IR, it has momentum, braking, can eliminate the spin, etc. It adds quite a bit to the experience, makes a $100 tank behave more like a Tamiya for $70 (RC2). $15 more for the sound chip of incoming fire.

hongrn

Ausf,

Do you mind walking me through the needed kit or kits to transform an Airsoft HL tank in an IR tank? I've got good soldering skills, but I'm unsure about the different components (I have 3 HL tanks - King Tiger, Tiger I, Panther G with the RX-18 units). From Darkith's site, I would need the following:

- 1 DBC or DBC RC
- 1 DBU
- 1 Sound Card

Then to have gun recoil, which kit do you use? The HL recoil kit, or the Asiatam, both available from RCTankWars? Thanks for your help.

Ten41, I hope I didn't hijack your thread, and thanks for addressing this exciting topic. I've been in RC planes for ever, but very new with tanks. Thanks.

ausf

What you have listed is all you need. It really couldn't be easier. I actually bought it for a StuG that is already IR with a Mako board to be Tamiya compatible, but decided I really want to be able to use my Spektrum DX6i Tx, so I ordered the kit. You get all the components you need and the step by step is on the website. I had a $6 Hobby King Rx Spektrum knock off Rx, I soldered the kit together, the DBU and simply hooked up the 4 channels to the Rx, plug the RX-18 board into the DBC RC2, bound it and took off.

In the meantime I bought a metal upgrade Pz IV with airsoft. I just plugged it all in to that tank and it works like a charm. I removed the red LED that warns you when the airsoft fires and put the IR emitter there temporarily (I have some plans for this tank). There's no recoil on this one, I'm not sure if I'll bother or not, it's the short barreled F1.

One note, I decided I wanted to use the Benedini sound module, so I ordered it from Dan with the new chip RC3 to plug into the DBC board. If you think you want to go that route, just buy the DBC RC3 kit or board instead.

I'll post my results when it arrives. I bought a really good speaker and my goal is to mount the DBC-RC3, Rx, Benedini Sound Card and speaker as a unit that I can swap between my StuG and Pz IV.

Panther G

By the time you buy everything you need to convert a BB to an IR tank you can buy an IR tank and have both. Yes the DBC in kit form is not exspensive but yes you may need a new Rx 18 board depending on which tank you have and how old it is. Even where you bought it from because some online sellers still are selling older model S&S tanks that have the old rx 14 board which is not IR capable. Then the issue of recoil. HL does not make a kit for recoil. You need to buy all the components seperately and they dont sell the recoiling barrel directly. Some tanks dont have recoil at all depending on the model. Save your time and money and buy an IR tank if thats what you want. Then as I said you still have both types if simple recreational IR battling is what you are looking to do.

DeadTom

Actually, the upgrade kit from Matomart to change a non S&S tank or the BB version to an IR version is only $55.00 and it doesn't take to much in soldering skills to complete.
I have only one HL factory S&S IR tank and one BB HL S&S tank converted to IR (and it still shoots BB's) and two non S&S tanks that have been converted to IR and they also still shoot BB's.
I have no one around me for hundreds of miles who is into RC tanks so I make my own fun with my 4 HL IR tanks. I have less than $700.00 invested for all 4 tanks converted.
The one thing I wish to control would be the wiggle when hit crap and the one thing I would like to add would be some LEDs to show when I hit or get hit, one thing at a time.
Good luck with your choices and better luck with your boys,
Tom

PS - the upgrade kit comes with an new RX18 and transmitter.
http://matomart.com/prodview.php?p=761

hongrn

DeadTom,

Here's what one reviewer on the Matomart site wrote about the $55 IR kit you mentioned. Is that your experience as well? Is it IR or not? Thanks.

DISAPPOINTING. I knew going in this IR upgrade kit did not have any documentation, but I believe this kit also needs an 8-pin connector. The real rub is the the LED included IS NOT and Infrared LED as claimed in the description. I know it is not an IR LED because when you apply voltage it lights up as a white light. A true IR emitter cannot be seen by the human eye. This LED glows white. This upgrade kit should be pulled off the web site and tested by a competent tank repair technician.

Hong

DeadTom

You are right that is one other persons perception I am the other person and I am saying that it was not at all difficult. We don't know this other persons abilities and you all do not know my abilities so take it for what the internet/forum is worth. So you have one vote for and one vote against.....your mileage may vary.
My experience was ok, I drew upon the knowledge of the wonderful people on this forum and had little problems. Having said that it was no walk in the park but easy enough I believe anyone could do it with a reasonable amount of basic soldering skills. And yes it is an IR kit that is recogizable by the HL factory tanks only.
Tom

Ten41

For ultra-cheap, it does look like you can just upgrade to HL IR, but you will not have gun recoil, it will not stop the shimmy, etc..

Take a look at this forum post from about 2010:  http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10..._1/key_/tm.htm

In here he does upgrade everything, but the only thing that I can see for IR is the Welsh Dragon kit, which is about $25: http://www.welshdragonmodels.co.uk/i...anks-518-p.asp

I do have a PM out to fsciorelli asking him how the conversion went.

Ten41

I forgot to mention that I did recieve a reply from Frank, and due to various circumstances his project has not been completed.

I emailed Stephen Boyd over at the Welsh Dragon and he believes that the basic IR kit should work.  Once again, it would not have HL recoil, stop the death shimmy, etc..

hongrn

Has anyone tried the DBC with the Heng Long IR sensor tower? Are they compatible? Thanks.

B.A.D.A.S.S.Force

I can't provide any experience that I have had myself which would help, but I think Darkith's own site discusses the use of what he calls the HBU or Heng Long IRSensor in several areas about the DBC of this page below, describing the differences & caveats:

David's Battle Circuit (DBC) & TK-RX18 boards

ausf

HL's tower is a cheap copy of Tamiya's. It has a smaller, roughly finished prism and no focusing lens. Besides the lack of LEDs, it uses a different IR sensor, so the pins are in a different configuration.

It'll work fine with the Mako board (range may be an issue) but if you are using the DBC, you should stick with the DBU. For $4 more you know the pin config is compatible and you get the LEDs to visually register hits. More range as well, since it's 4 better sensors as opposed to one limited. Tamiya uses very good sensors, but the lens is what sets it apart.

hongrn

What about the Heng Long kit itself. Doesn't come with instructions, so is it easy to install? Thanks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Henglong-Inf...22963353343777

Ten41

Hong-

I have seen in the forums (and searching online) that rccommand has instructions on using this kit.  The instructions are at http://www.rccommand.com/guides/upgrade.php .

I believe that ebay rc-dynasty is matomart.  Not sure, but the pictures are exactly the same, both operations are in Cananda, etc..  I did a quick checkout (without buy) and you get a whopping $2 discount going through the matomart website.  But, $2 is $2.

If you are interested in going the matomart route, you could always email them and make sure that their kit has all of the same parts as in the ebay offered kit.

-Mitch

hongrn

Thanks Mitch. This is very helpful.

FreakyDude

Mato Mart and Rc Dynasty  I have bought from both. Mato sells to the public and RC it seems sells to distributors and keeps an e-bay auction on product. Are they related? unknown and I won't guess at this. I guess maybe I should take a closer look at the postage stamp when i buy from either one. That would narrow down their corporate locations to a few segments of the toronto area.

tsull

I've been down this path for the last 6 months and here's my wisdom (or lack of):
1. I like to build. If you don't like to build/tinker/get frustrated/mad/and have a great time, DON'T go down this path!
However; the cheapest and most effective method of taking a HL tank and making it battle ready against Tamiya IR tanks is the following (at least for me),
a) Buy ONLY a IR HL Tank (cost more to purchase the BB Version),
b) Buy the DBC RC2HL board and two sound cards from Darkith, ($55 plus $15 per sound card),
c) Buy an IMPACT Apple with wiring (about $80 +- with shipping),
d) Buy a PICO mini switch (about $25 for the recoil system),
Total cost minus the HL Tank = $190
Add a IR HL Tank = $120 +-
Total(?) = $310
AND:
a) Carefully build the DBC RC2HL board (assuming you have a radio to use) and test it BEFORE hooking up the IMPACT Apple or soundcards,
b) Modify the recoil system and use a microswitch and the PICO servo switch to fire it (tutorials in RC Universe or email me and I'll send you the wiring diagram, etc)
c) Install the DBC, sound cards and recoil system in the HL Tank and go kill a Tamiya Tank.
NOTE: you can save $65 by purchasing the DBU and when building it, run longer LED wires to the actual LED's which you would hide in the tank's periscopes or somewhere and run the 3 wires to the existing HL Apple. Remove one of the DBU sensors and replace the existing HL sensor in the HL Apple. BE VERY CAREFUL doing this work - or you will end up replacing the DBC board. Install the actual DBU board in the turret and snap on the HL Sensor! The HL sensor is smaller (harder to hit) and looks professional. The only real downside is if you burn out the DBC board (been there!) and if you are hit and it's in broad daylight, the LED lights in the Periscopes are hard to see. I have both systems and recommend the IMPACT Apple! Worth the money!

Now, you have spent $310 (plus, plus, plus), burned out a thing or two, become very frustrated and generally wondering why the hell did you do this when you could have bought a Tamiya Sherman for almost the same amount of money!

6 months to figure this out for myself (slow learner...).

Should I have bought the T. Sherman instead?

Hell NO! Now, I know how to wire, solder, not touch sensors, build recoil systems and generally have a GREAT TIME with my 12 year old boy. However, I am a glutton for punishment. There were times when I wanted to quit and toss the stuff in the garbage.

Now, it's time to buy a T. Sherman and build it with my son. We'll have a great time, laugh together and quickly and easily build the tank. All the while we are planning on our next real build... a JS7 (cause now I know how).

Did I mention that we are purchasing a Benedini sound board with the new DB3. I figure we can use the throttle stick to run the gun elevation and rewire the gun switch. I hate the HL elevation, fire and machine gun system.

You see, I can't leave it alone. That's why the HL way was the right way for me to start out. Now to return all our loose change for that last $100 to buy the Tamiya (plus, it's always fun to kill a Tamiya with a HL!)

Cheers
tjs