RE: What is up with this new engine???    Gallery
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
    Search This Thread  
 
Printable Version


90 Dgree Muffler Adapters
Seller:  RC Specialties
Details:   $19.95   |  6/6/2013   |  Classified Ad
We will rotate YOUR AD in this spot if you select "Forum Featured" when placing or editing your ad!

All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Glow Engines >> RE: What is up with this new engine???
Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]

Tower Hobbies Get Coupon Codes Brands  
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/9/2012 2:19 AM   
OliverJacob


 

Posts: 452
Score: 110
Joined: 7/24/2011
Last Login: 6/18/2013
From: Reedsburg, WI, USA
Status: offline 		Great idea. Now problem is the hefty price tag. I am sure there will be a substitute for the expensive Enya oil.
I'd be happy to go without the ignition system and use a glow starter.
When they come down in price, I will consider buying one.


Hide Signatures

(in reply to do335a)
       Post #: 26

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/9/2012 12:50 PM   
mike31


 

Posts: 613
Score: 114
Joined: 8/25/2002
Last Login: 6/11/2013
From: York, ME, USA
Status: offline 		JMO but why don't we all go to nuclear power? Steam works real good. Engines would run on water. No fuel residue either. Other than that I prefer 2 stroke glow anytime.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to SrTelemaster150)
       Post #: 27

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/9/2012 12:53 PM   
mike31


 

Posts: 613
Score: 114
Joined: 8/25/2002
Last Login: 6/11/2013
From: York, ME, USA
Status: offline 		Almost any airport has 100LL available.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Desertlakesflying)
       Post #: 28

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/9/2012 1:24 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 12542
Score: 233
Joined: 1/22/2002
Last Login: 6/18/2013
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: earlwb

Why would you need 100 octane gasoline? These engines aren't big enough to need hi-octane stuff.
I think the marine or boat gasoline from places located around marinas and such locales would be a better choice, as it is a lower octane gasoline.
But then if you live in the desert far from a lake, you could have problems.




Most of our 2 stroke engines have too low a compression ratio to need 100 octane gas.  This is just a guess but I suppose they used a much higher compression ratio to help the glow plug ignite the fuel?  After all it doesn't have or doesn't have as much catalytic reaction to the fuel as it would with methanol.


_____________________________

“I Saw Elvis at 1000 Feet” John Force

Hide Signatures

(in reply to earlwb)
       Post #: 29

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/9/2012 2:46 PM   
hsukaria


 

Posts: 1680
Score: 185
Joined: 2/22/2007
Last Login: 6/14/2013
From: Dearborn, MI, USA
Status: offline 		This would be great for smaller engines, .60 or below to use cheaper gas. It depends how expensive that special oil and glow plug will be.

_____________________________

Content, but not Complacent.
Saito Club Member #765

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 30

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/9/2012 4:30 PM   
kochj


 

Posts: 3677
Score: 143
Joined: 12/5/2005
Last Login: 6/15/2013
From: Victoria, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I am confused by some of the statements....
Do you believe that taking this glow plug and the special oil and high octage gas can be used in out currect engines that we own now?

Even if it would run, how would you get you current carb on the egines, that is setup for high volume of fuel, to work with low volume fuel
with gasoline? It hasn't worked well in the past, or you would have everyone doing it....
Even the great C&H past owner stated that even with his ignitions installed, use glow fuel..
The reasons quickly pop up when you attempt to do so on your own...

It is much easier to place a onboard glow ignitor on a glow engine, than it is to place a ignition system on it...

_____________________________

If you can''''t dazzle em with brilliance,baffle em with BS

Hide Signatures

(in reply to hsukaria)
       Post #: 31

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/9/2012 7:36 PM   
SrTelemaster150



Posts: 1504
Score: 229
Joined: 2/7/2012
Last Login: 6/18/2013
From: Brasher Falls, NY, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: hsukaria

This would be great for smaller engines, .60 or below to use cheaper gas. It depends how expensive that special oil and glow plug will be.


I agree wholheartedly but this is a 1.80 engine

_____________________________

Club Saito #785 - FA91S CDI, FA150 CDI, FA180 CDI, FA180HC CDI/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP CDI

Hide Signatures

(in reply to hsukaria)
       Post #: 32

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/9/2012 8:23 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 12542
Score: 233
Joined: 1/22/2002
Last Login: 6/18/2013
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Even if it would run, how would you get you current carb on the egines, that is setup for high volume of fuel, to work with low volume fuel
with gasoline? It hasn't worked well in the past, or you would have everyone doing it....


What do you mean "Nobody"?  Magnum and Fox introduced engines a year or two which were only .50 sized engines.  Both had working carbs that used gas.  Those worked.well AFAIK.

_____________________________

“I Saw Elvis at 1000 Feet” John Force

Hide Signatures

(in reply to SrTelemaster150)
       Post #: 33

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/9/2012 8:31 PM   
SrTelemaster150



Posts: 1504
Score: 229
Joined: 2/7/2012
Last Login: 6/18/2013
From: Brasher Falls, NY, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: blw

quote:

ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

Something else you guys are not taking into cosideration is that the gasoline used in that clip was 100 octane. Where are you going to find reasonably priced 100 octane gasoline readily available to the average R/C pilot?




Potsdam Municipal Airport-Damon Field is about 12 miles from your location, and they have avgas.



So I drive 24 miles round trip, burn $4 worth of gas (not to mention wear & tear on my car) & pay $5 a gallon for Avgas & buy "special oil" that I will have to buy online & have shipped so I can run it in a glow engine to get less power, use more fuel per HP & have a higher idle speed than an "ignition" engine that will run on $4 a gallon 87 octane unleaded that is available right around the corner & oil that I can buy @ the local outdoor power equipment shop?

In fact, on a "gas engine" I can just use the 50:1 gas/oil mix that's out in my garage for my Stihl chainsaw & trimmer.

That brings up anpother point. If glow is better (it certainly would be cheaper as OEM) why don't we see glow engines on our chainsaws, trimmer, dirt bikes, etc?

If you like glow over ignition fine, do as you please, but it is not an improvement unless you don't know how to set up & use a modern CDI ignition system on large engines. on <.90 engines glow makes sense, but on a gas 1.80?

_____________________________

Club Saito #785 - FA91S CDI, FA150 CDI, FA180 CDI, FA180HC CDI/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP CDI

Hide Signatures

(in reply to blw)
       Post #: 34

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/9/2012 8:35 PM   
SrTelemaster150



Posts: 1504
Score: 229
Joined: 2/7/2012
Last Login: 6/18/2013
From: Brasher Falls, NY, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

quote:

Where are you going to find reasonably priced 100 octane gasoline readily available to the average R/C pilot?
Sunoco.  avgas, or racing fuel.


Not sure about the Sunoco stations where you live, but here in NY state it 93 octane max.

_____________________________

Club Saito #785 - FA91S CDI, FA150 CDI, FA180 CDI, FA180HC CDI/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP CDI

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 35

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/9/2012 8:36 PM   
earlwb


 

Posts: 4659
Score: 599
Joined: 8/6/2009
Last Login: 6/18/2013
From: Grapevine, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Actually the chainsaw or trimmer would work pretty good as a glow engine. Years ago, it was a popular conversion for airplane engines in our locale at the time. One could reduce the weight of the device by quite a bit as you don't need the magneto, electronic ignition, etc. Plus you don't need a pumper carb either. I think several folks have run their lawnmowers off of glow fuel more recently as well. But usually the lawn mowers have float carbs and are less affected by the methanol in the fuel.
Yes one could still run a lower oil percentage with methanol fuel, probably not 50:1 but maybe 35:1 or something like that.

Unfortunately glow fuel costs more. So it isn't all that viable over gasoline.




_____________________________

Club Saito #722, Sig Kadet Brotherhood #80
AMA # 928076

Hide Signatures

(in reply to SrTelemaster150)
       Post #: 36

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/9/2012 8:40 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 12542
Score: 233
Joined: 1/22/2002
Last Login: 6/18/2013
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline

Twenty four miles round trip is nothing.  I drive more than twenty miles to work.  You can buy octane boosters from auto parts stores that will boost the Octane to 100 or very near that.  In many areas Sunoco will sell 100 Octane fuel at the pump, but this is more common near drag strips where street car bracket racing is allowed.  You can also have 100 octane fuel shipped, but not sure if the price would be less than avgas.  Then again some of the gas people are running avgas anyway despite the extra buck. 

I doubt the special oil is required, and probably not all that special either.  Just a ploy to sell more product.



_____________________________

“I Saw Elvis at 1000 Feet” John Force

Hide Signatures

(in reply to SrTelemaster150)
       Post #: 37

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/9/2012 8:42 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 12542
Score: 233
Joined: 1/22/2002
Last Login: 6/18/2013
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Plus you don't need a pumper carb either.


The pumper carb did not have anything to do with gas or glow, the size of the engine means the tank is further away form the carb, so it becomes more necessary.  However they are calibrated differently and some may not work well with glow.

_____________________________

“I Saw Elvis at 1000 Feet” John Force

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 38

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/9/2012 8:58 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 12542
Score: 233
Joined: 1/22/2002
Last Login: 6/18/2013
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

quote:

Where are you going to find reasonably priced 100 octane gasoline readily available to the average R/C pilot?
Sunoco.  avgas, or racing fuel.


Not sure about the Sunoco stations where you live, but here in NY state it 93 octane max.



There is some Sunoco 110 octane fuel just 13 miles from you.

http://www.racegas.com/fuelfinder

Rt 37, Hogansburg, NY 13655 US

This is just one of the race fuels distributors.  There are also stations selling 100 octane fuel from the pump, but not all.  This fuel is street legal in California and I suspect all states.
There is a pump for 100 octane just down the road from me.  But their used to be a drag strip near by but closed down a few years ago.  I guess the demand is still there for the 100 octane.




_____________________________

“I Saw Elvis at 1000 Feet” John Force

Hide Signatures

(in reply to SrTelemaster150)
       Post #: 39

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/9/2012 10:03 PM   
Ernie Misner



Posts: 4673
Score: 130
Joined: 7/5/2002
Last Login: 6/12/2013
From: Tacoma, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Just curious, does a given engine actually increase HP when converted to gasoline? I thought methanol gave a slight HP advantage with it's higher molecule / oxygen ratio but of course got worse mileage and cost per gallon. Has something changed?

Thanks,

Ernie Misner

Hide Signatures

(in reply to do335a)
       Post #: 40

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/9/2012 10:06 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 12542
Score: 233
Joined: 1/22/2002
Last Login: 6/18/2013
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Nothing has changed.  Some people would prefer gasoline even on small models because of economy and endurance (more time in the air).  But to get the same power you will need a larger motor.

_____________________________

“I Saw Elvis at 1000 Feet” John Force

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Ernie Misner)
       Post #: 41

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/9/2012 10:55 PM   
hsukaria


 

Posts: 1680
Score: 185
Joined: 2/22/2007
Last Login: 6/14/2013
From: Dearborn, MI, USA
Status: offline 		All good arguments for both sides.

I am no gasoline expert, just got my first gasser today (beautiful engine BTW). But I think the gas in Japan is not mainly higher octane, it is lower sulfur and other minerals that make it easier for catalytic converters to do the anti-smog emissions. Their catalytic converters can be smaller than what we have to have here in the US because their gas is cleaner to begin with. I think also they can run leaner to save gas without sulfur buildup in the catalyst or nitrous oxides emissions (to some extent).

_____________________________

Content, but not Complacent.
Saito Club Member #765

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 42

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/9/2012 11:10 PM   
acerc



Posts: 3225
Score: 221
Joined: 9/7/2006
Last Login: 6/18/2013
From: lithia, FL, USA
Status: online 		Useing a Super Stearman as a reference. Engine requirement's, .91-1.2,  2-4 stroke.
First the gas equivalent,
DLE 20cc, 2.5h.p, 14x10-17x6 prop  @ appr. 8,000rpm 
RCGF 20cc, 2.6hp, 15x8-17x6 prop @ appr. 8,000rpm 
Now the nitro                                                                       
OS 120-2 stroke, 3.06hp, 15x12-16x10 prop  @ appr. 9,000rpm  
OS 120-4storke, 1.87hp, 13x11-17x6 prop  @ appr. 11,000rpm

I have the RCGF 20cc in a
Hanger-9 Coursair 65" ws
 Great Planes SuperStearman 71"ws
SH Profile 57"ws
Dollar for dollar, I'll take the gas any day.


_____________________________

Robert
Cub Brotherhood #3\ Ryan STA Brotherhood #4

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 43

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/10/2012 2:23 AM   
captinjohn


 

Posts: 12125
Score: 247
Joined: 1/25/2002
Last Login: 6/18/2013
From: Hesperia Michigan, MI, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

Just curious, does a given engine actually increase HP when converted to gasoline? I thought methanol gave a slight HP advantage with it's higher molecule / oxygen ratio but of course got worse mileage and cost per gallon. Has something changed?

Thanks,

Ernie Misner

 Not that much more power on gas, but a alcohol based fuel will let the engine run cooler!

_____________________________

I never met a engine I did not like !

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Ernie Misner)
       Post #: 44

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/10/2012 1:22 PM   
geeter


 

Posts: 532
Score: 108
Joined: 4/3/2005
Last Login: 6/16/2013
From: west chester, PA, USA
Status: offline 		i happen to have a gas to alcohol or nitro spark plug adaptor made by first place engines. it fits 14mm spark plug holes on many engines like zenoah and the like. it houses a standard glo plug in the middle. anyone wants it.......let me know. email....geeter1503@gmail.com.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to captinjohn)
       Post #: 45

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/10/2012 1:56 PM   
NM2K


 

Posts: 11450
Score: 161
Joined: 1/31/2002
Last Login: 6/18/2013
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: captinjohn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

Just curious, does a given engine actually increase HP when converted to gasoline? I thought methanol gave a slight HP advantage with it's higher molecule / oxygen ratio but of course got worse mileage and cost per gallon. Has something changed?

Thanks,

Ernie Misner

 Not that much more power on gas, but a alcohol based fuel will let the engine run cooler!





Our engines are basically air pumps. The amount of power that they can develop is limited by how much air can pass through the engine in one normal stroke/cycle.

Gasoline based fuel does not produce more power than methyl alcohol based fuel. The reason is because methyl alcohol doesn't require as much oxygen per given unit of fuel in order to burn (2:1 to 4:1) as does gasoline (15:1). Therefore, more calories can be burned in an engine. Even though the unit value calorie wise of alcohol is less than gasoline, more alcohol based fuel units can be burned with alcohol than gasoline based fuel. Having calories available to burn does you no good if you cannot flow enough oxygen to burn it and release the energy.


Ed Cregger

< Message edited by NM2K -- 5/10/2012 10:55 PM >


_____________________________

"Practice makes prefect"


Hide Signatures

(in reply to captinjohn)
       Post #: 46

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/10/2012 2:16 PM   
hsukaria


 

Posts: 1680
Score: 185
Joined: 2/22/2007
Last Login: 6/14/2013
From: Dearborn, MI, USA
Status: offline 		I can see the benefit of this special glow plug and oil if you could buy it and convert your existing smaller glow engines to run gasoline, even with a slight loss of power. I think a lot of nitro engine owners would try it to save money or for convenience if they can't find glow fuel locally. But if it has to be that huge (1.8 c.i.) of an engine, adding spark ignition does not create a weight penalty that is noticeable. Also, that big lump of a carburetor would be a detractor for smaller engines.

Just keep it simple!!!

_____________________________

Content, but not Complacent.
Saito Club Member #765

Hide Signatures

(in reply to NM2K)
       Post #: 47

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/10/2012 2:36 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 12542
Score: 233
Joined: 1/22/2002
Last Login: 6/18/2013
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Also, that big lump of a carburetor would be a detractor for smaller engines.


You actually won't need it, but if you want a regulator you can add it seperate from the carb as most glow engines do.  If the carb does not have a ffine tuning you could have problems tuning as a click of adjustment could be huge on gas.  Many carbs would simply not work unless you are lucky that the right spot match's up with the needle detent.  Also lack of any accelerator pump or other low vacume temp fuel enrichment device could be a problem.  But if manufactures get smart, starting with perhaps Enya, then the carb could be designed for gas.  I would suggest Enya should work on a light weight .60 gas that could be used on .40 to .50 sized planes.


< Message edited by Sport_Pilot -- 5/10/2012 4:20 PM >

_____________________________

“I Saw Elvis at 1000 Feet” John Force

Hide Signatures

(in reply to hsukaria)
       Post #: 48

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/10/2012 4:02 PM   
dennis



Posts: 1710
Score: 110
Joined: 1/7/2002
Last Login: 6/18/2013
From: Minersville, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Something to consider. At $900.00 US you have to do a fair amount of flying to recoup the outlay to buy the engine. I know that most never do consider cost when buying engines it is goverened by I want, not I need usually. But everything that you own has a cost ratio to consider and at $900.00 no one really needs that engine when there are other options available. To consider the Zenoah G-62 as an example it cost about $50.00 to manufacture and ship back when it was introduced and sold for $279.00 approx. Gas was under $2.00 then.
I knw that this will not be relevant to most but it is still someting to consider

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 49

RE: What is up with this new engine??? - 5/10/2012 7:40 PM   
hsukaria


 

Posts: 1680
Score: 185
Joined: 2/22/2007
Last Login: 6/14/2013
From: Dearborn, MI, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

quote:

Also, that big lump of a carburetor would be a detractor for smaller engines.


You actually won't need it, but if you want a regulator you can add it seperate from the carb as most glow engines do.  If the carb does not have a ffine tuning you could have problems tuning as a click of adjustment could be huge on gas.  Many carbs would simply not work unless you are lucky that the right spot match's up with the needle detent.  Also lack of any accelerator pump or other low vacume temp fuel enrichment device could be a problem.  But if manufactures get smart, starting with perhaps Enya, then the carb could be designed for gas.  I would suggest Enya should work on a light weight .60 gas that could be used on .40 to .50 sized planes.


Makes sense. Actually, the new carb from Fox Manufacturing does not have the needle detent. So, you can adjust it as fine as you want/need. Just need a pressure regulator to add. And it won't cost $900 .

_____________________________

Content, but not Complacent.
Saito Club Member #765

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 50

Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel &amp; Mfg Support Forums >> Glow Engines >> RE: What is up with this new engine???
Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]





Jump to:


 
Google 



Search | Marketplace | Event Calendar | Local Clubs | Magazine | Product Ratings | New Products | Discussion Forums

Photo Gallery | Instructor Search | Field|Track|Marina Search

Advertisers | Hobby Vendor Resources | Rate Manufacturers | Sign In/Sign Up

SITE MAP!   : :   FORUM RULES

RC Universe is a service of Internet Brands, Inc. Copyright © 2001-2013.

Charities we support that also need your help
Yorkie Rescue | Humane Society | ASPCA | Crohn's-Colitis America


0.969RCU1