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Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/8/2012 8:36 PM   
sskianpour


 

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Status: offline 		What if this were to happen in combat during a more strained & stressful situation? Scary stuff...

Link wont connect....Hmmm...
This is where I found the article

http://news.yahoo.com/fighter-pilots-claim-intimidation-over-f-22-raptor-123832451abc-news-topstories.html

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/8/2012 11:49 PM   
dbsonic


 

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Status: offline 		Unfortunate to hear about that one pilot. But this sort of thing does happen and there is a reason for backup oxygen/ p.r.i.c.e type checks/ and getting a good mask seal.
But I wouldnt think the F22 is a lost cause as the media presents. The military knows how do this right - with the manufacturer they just need to fix it for good. They've been flying in this regime and greater for over 50 years.

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/8/2012 11:56 PM   
NickC5FE



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Status: offline 		dbsonic- wrong. PRICE checks/ mask seals don't matter when the onboard oxygen generator is the cause of bad o2 supply. You are just PRICE checking a good regulator with a bad supply.

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 12:04 AM   
afterburner



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Status: offline 		Read the article yesterday. Seems like it's more than an isolated incident and some pilots refusing to fly in it.

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 1:26 AM   
ianober



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Status: online 		Here is a link that works:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fighter-pilots-claim-intimidation-22-raptor-jet-concerns/story?id=16294011#.T6m5kuhDzQg

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 2:49 AM   
dbsonic


 

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Status: offline 		But what backup is used. Surely they have a bailout bottle that could have helped this guy?
Doesn't seem that compilicated when a guy in a 1-23 went to 46k using only pressure demand back in 61.

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 3:02 AM   
NickC5FE



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Status: offline 		Bailout bottle isn't active until bailout. Also, the effects of hypoxia can sneak up on even the most seasoned flier. Depending on his cabin altitude, the onset of hypoxia past T.U.C (Time of useful consciousness) could be just seconds. This problem with the OBOG system on the Raptor is a big problem, not like other seen before in other jets.

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 3:06 AM   
gunradd



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Status: offline 		DB from what I read the pilot could not do simple tasks like pull the emergency O2 because he was suffering so bad from hypoxia.

In the 60 mins interveiw 2 pilots did interviews. Its problem that needs to be fixed and not an isolated problem. One raptor even hit a tree and the pilot didnt even know it happend. The pilots do go on to say its the best fighter period and nothing comes close but the O2 system needs to be fixed.

From what I have read to Raptor does not have the LOX system other fighters have. It uses compressor bleed air for oxygen and a few other componets. I hope they get it the problem fixed soon. Funny no other plane can touch it in combat but the media can turn public opinion and that will be its biggest threat.

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 3:36 AM   
dbsonic


 

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 11:04 AM   
molo_30



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Status: offline 		Compressor bleed air won't supply you the 100% O2 you need at altitude.

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 12:35 PM   
Robrow



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quote:

ORIGINAL: molo_30

Compressor bleed air won't supply you the 100% O2 you need at altitude.


I don't think 100% O2 is needed at any altitude?

Rob.

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 12:41 PM   
Robrow



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quote:

ORIGINAL: NickC5FE

Bailout bottle isn't active until bailout. Also, the effects of hypoxia can sneak up on even the most seasoned flier. Depending on his cabin altitude, the onset of hypoxia past T.U.C (Time of useful consciousness) could be just seconds. This problem with the OBOG system on the Raptor is a big problem, not like other seen before in other jets.


Can't understand why it was not designed with an automated O2 supplementation system in the first place and also why the driver does not get a low O2% warning from the OBOGS in time.

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 2:31 PM   
siclick33


 

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quote:

I don't think 100% O2 is needed at any altitude?


That depends on the cockpit pressurisation. If you have a pressurisation failure at high altitude even 100% oxygen isn't enough!



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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 3:05 PM   
E.N.T.


 

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Status: online 		If you breathe 100% oxygen you'll most probably die from
intoxication. That's why we breathe a mix of mostly oxygen
and other gases.


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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 3:18 PM   
siclick33


 

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Status: offline 		If you don't have 100% oxygen in an unpressurised aircraft at high altitude (or 100% oxygen under pressure at really high altitudes) then you will get hypoxic, have reduced brain function and then collapse. This all may happen very quickly.

The Raptor does have a backup system, but I understand that it is manually activated. It also has warnings to tell you that the OBOGS has failed.

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 6:03 PM   
Robrow



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Status: offline 		OK, I was assuming cockpit pressurisation was working ok at the time of the incident(s)? so no low pressure induced physiological problems and the normal supply of O2 enriched breathing gas? If a warning is given then the trigger point must be set too low whereby hypoxia has already taken its toll.

I must admit I do find it astounding, particularly on this platform, that the reversionary system is not automated!

Rob.

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 6:54 PM   
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Status: offline 		It hacks me off to hear that tripe on ABC with their pathetic comments, "Billion Dollar stunt plane"... I guess they will never know the dedication and commitment it took to create this awsome jet. They will work out the oxygen issue. I don't disparage the pilot who lost his life (God rest his soul). I'm just saying that there are other projects that have killed many more pilots than this that are very important platforms today. AND it will get sorted out. When they are done it will be one of the most valuable tools in our arsenal keeping us safe and free for generations to come.

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 7:13 PM   
ianober



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Status: online 		How about the fact that a former fighter pilot (McCain) was the one that called it a billion dollar stunt plane. That gives the statement more clout cause he is "supposedly" a former expert on fighters, even though he flew much older technology. That's what the average American listens too. So don't blame ABC for what McCain backed and supported by causing more damage to the Raptors rep than anything else. ABC is just the messenger. Obviously he has something against the Raptor program or some other special interest, but being former military I would have though he would have chosen his words more carefully.

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 7:46 PM   
AndyAndrews


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ianober

How about the fact that a former fighter pilot (McCain) was the one that called it a billion dollar stunt plane. That gives the statement more clout cause he is ''supposedly'' a former expert on fighters, even though he flew much older technology. That's what the average American listens too. So don't blame ABC for what McCain backed and supported by causing more damage to the Raptors rep than anything else. ABC is just the messenger. Obviously he has something against the Raptor program or some other special interest, but being former military I would have though he would have chosen his words more carefully.


McCain is a nutjob. I don't take anything he says seriously.

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 7:52 PM   
gunradd



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Status: offline 		I rememeber back in Desert Storm all the negative press the AH64 apache got. And look how its turned out. Also the V22 got a ton of bad press from a few crahses but they also got it squared away.The raptor will get fixed and I hope then stay under the media radar unless it does something good.

Funny even the pilots that are complaining about it dont want to be reasigned they just want the problem fixed and be back into the worlds best fighter.

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 8:04 PM   
FalconWings



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quote:

ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews


quote:

ORIGINAL: ianober

How about the fact that a former fighter pilot (McCain) was the one that called it a billion dollar stunt plane. That gives the statement more clout cause he is ''supposedly'' a former expert on fighters, even though he flew much older technology. That's what the average American listens too. So don't blame ABC for what McCain backed and supported by causing more damage to the Raptors rep than anything else. ABC is just the messenger. Obviously he has something against the Raptor program or some other special interest, but being former military I would have though he would have chosen his words more carefully.


McCain is a nutjob. I don't take anything he says seriously.


I agree. The <%}{\ he knows about 5th Gen fighters. In his days if you needed air to breath you would slide back the canopy.

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 8:16 PM   
NickC5FE



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Status: offline 		ENT, Every aircraft on planet earth that is designed for high altitude flight has an emergency toggle on their regulator that allows 100% O2. Half of our emergency procedures in the C-5 have "OXYGEN-ON, 100%" written in it somewhere........ You will not "die of intoxication" by breathing 100% o2.

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 8:19 PM   
dbsonic


 

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Status: offline 		Canulas are okay up to 20k. Past 20k you should wear a mask. When Bikle went to 46k unpressurized with just a pressure demand WWII era system, he was most concerned about the temps being -65c and did not experience any other discomfort. However the low pressure environment will cause the blood to gas somewhere north of 60k IIRC. Very harsh enviroment up there. Some of us have been in the chamber. I dont think I ever want to go past 25k unpressurized. That was enough.

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 8:25 PM   
S E Repton



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quote:

ORIGINAL: NickC5FE

You will not ''die of intoxication'' by breathing 100% o2.



We breathe 21% oxygen from the atmosphere.

100% Oxygen will kill you, eventually.

It is basic biology.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/question493.htm

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RE: Hypoxia in F-22's? Scary thought... - 5/9/2012 8:28 PM   
NickC5FE



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Status: offline 		Let me re-phrase. You will not die brethaing 100% in the amount of time it takes to get the emergency under control.

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