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LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 5/14/2012 4:37 AM   
DonStegall



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Status: offline 		I made a video today of how I mount mini servos in LA Racer 40 wings. It is on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VnDt-eQyfg.

Or you can watch it at http://www.abmshowcase.com/the_world_models/sport/la_racer_40/tips/wing_mini_servos and get the PDF file with the drawings of the parts needed.

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 5/14/2012 1:28 PM   
skull1971



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Status: offline 		good job Don


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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 5/14/2012 3:58 PM   
JohnMcGowan


 

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Status: offline 		Nicely done Don!!!
Riddle me this please... on a mini servo for the aileron for the LA, what is the minimum torque of a servo that you would suggest to use? I realize that its not going to take a lot of torque out there for the aileron, but Ive never really used the mini's before, so I just dont know

Thanks Don !!!!
John

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 5/14/2012 6:02 PM   
DonStegall



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Status: offline 		I use the MN48 Mini Servo by JR SPORT. It is 48 oz-in (3.5kg-cm) @ 4.8V and more precise than standard servos.

I use dual MN48 in my Sky Raider Mach II planes because I use mixing and flaperons. I got used to having dual servos in my LA Racers and could not live without them in the Raiders. The Raiders don't feel as good to me with single servos. I have drawings for that servo tray too.

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 5/14/2012 10:36 PM   
dnrocc


 

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Status: offline 		Just curious if this modification is legal per the RCPRO rules. The rules state.....

Assemble according to the manual, with the materials provided, except for:
Recovering plane is allowed
No airframe modifications other than repairs or reinforcement.
Any modification deemed to be an attempt to provide for speed enhancement, shall not be allowed.

Don

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 5/14/2012 11:14 PM   
JohnMcGowan


 

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Status: offline 		Don, I was wondering the same thing too.

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 5/14/2012 11:33 PM   
skull1971



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quote:

ORIGINAL: dnrocc

Just curious if this modification is legal per the RCPRO rules. The rules state.....

Assemble according to the manual, with the materials provided, except for:
Recovering plane is allowed
No airframe modifications other than repairs or reinforcement.
Any modification deemed to be an attempt to provide for speed enhancement, shall not be allowed.

Don

Good point Don!!

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 5/15/2012 7:37 PM   
DonStegall



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Status: offline 		I first mounted mini servos in the wing of an LA Racer 40 like this in 2007. They have 4 screws per the rules that were in place at that time.

The line above was added in 2009 or 2010. Even if it was added before then, there are some questions.

What is an airframe modification? People remove wood to mount different clunk tanks. Or to raise the tank which is allowed by the rules. Is that a speed enhancement. I think so if it allows for more consistent engine runs.

With this change no airframe profile modification is made. A 1/8" x 5/8" piece of wood on a servo rail is removed. And the servo rail is below the surface of the wing. So is it an airframe modification?

The control horn for the aileron is still out in the wind. The servo arm and pushrod is still out in the wind. The cross-section of the LA Racer 40 is bigger than the Sky Raider Mach II. I don't think this gives the LA Racer 40 an advantage. If I use mini servos in the wing without doing this, I would have to add a plywood insert and I don't think that is as safe as this is.

I'm going to splinter this thread now. I hope it stays sensible and moderately cordial. It will be opinionated.

We used to have a "Modifications" page that detailed exactly what was allowed. I liked it better than what we have now. I have heard some claims of "cheating" and I don't like that.

The Modifications page specified that the landing gear could be replaced with a gear made with 5/32" wire. Some LA Racer 40 kits have shipped with the shorter Sky Raider Mach II kit. If I show up to a race 14 hours from home and I'm not allowed to race an LA Racer because I have the shorter gear on my plane, I'm going to be ticked off.

Can a person use a Sanaloma Club 40 Raider wing on a Sky Raider Mach II and be legal?

Club 40 is supposed to be about fun. It is ok to get serious with it. But getting overboard on rules, and especially when they are relatively loose, can make it no fun and drive people away.

There is no such thing as STOCK in R/C pylon racing unless you buy RTF planes and off the shelf batteries. Everyone builds their planes differently and breaks-in their engine differently. I can almost guarantee you that my Thunder Tiger PRO 40 engines will be better than 90% of the other ones out there. I set up an EZ-Up tent so I don't get baked and run them using techniques for hours that bring out the best in them. I use 5 hinges per aileron and I gap seal my control surfaces. I tape the ends of my ailerons on Sky Raider Mach II planes to prevent flutter and to limit the travel out at the tips. I use dual aileron servos per the rules and use mixing to make my planes fly better. The #88 prepared like so came in 1st and 2nd in Charlotte in 2009 at the hands of 2 different people. It is a very good plane. Because I put it together well and trimmed it well. I may not be a top notch pilot, but I know how to make a plane fly very well.

If this change is not allowed, then it needs to be specifically disallowed. I don't especially like the current way the rules assume things are disallowed unless they are stated that they are allowed.

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 5/15/2012 9:02 PM   
DonStegall



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Status: offline 		BTW, I didn't mean for my message to sound like it does and I'm not going to edit it.

I just want people to chill on the rules thing before the championship race. I know I don't want to drive to Texas then have issues with my planes being legal.

I was asked about aileron servos in the LA Racer 40 and I was doing my wing, so I just made a video. I was not trying to stir the pot.

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 5/15/2012 9:20 PM   
JohnMcGowan


 

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Status: offline 		I for one didnt see that you were trying to stir things up Don. You were asked a question on how the mini servos went into a wing and you gave a fair answer as well as a great video.
Thanks for that!!
John

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 5/16/2012 3:28 AM   
dnrocc


 

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Status: offline 		I agree with Don, but just want to know if anyone would interpret this as a rule infraction. I do agree with Don in the fact that vague rules such as the one I referred to should be more specific. The rules state that dual aileron servo's are allowed. What does that mean? How can you install them on a Sky Raider without modifying the airframe? Please don't misinterpret my post as being against what you are doing, because I really do like it, appreciate the time and effort you are putting into it and I am considering it for my planes.

Maybe it's time for our rules committee to provide feedback on this so everyone is on the same page.

Don

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 5/16/2012 4:17 PM   
Ken Erickson



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Status: offline 		Gents,

Basicly, I am just the guy who tallies the votes of the committe and writes up the result. sometimes I make suggestions.

I will present this (adding dual mini-servos to the Sky Raider wing) to the committee. The other items mentioned here will also be presented to them.

Ken Erickson
RCPRO Club 40 Committee Chairman



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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 5/17/2012 2:14 PM   
Tbatt


 

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Status: offline 		I have seen setups for dual servos on the SRMKII wing by setting the two servos side by side in the center of the wing. This setup is cleaner than having them hang outside of the wing like the LA. Other than that I don't really care one way or the other. For me, a single servo is lighter and simple.

Tim

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 5/24/2012 2:51 AM   
Oldbob


 

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Status: offline 		I guess us’ens in Texas are a bit behind the rules curve when it comes to mini servos, dual ailerons and elevator and aileron mixing. But not to worry, we learn very fast.
Bob

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 5/31/2012 11:36 PM   
gunfighter


 

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Status: offline 		As the FORMER chairman of both the RCPRO and the TEXAS club 40 rules committe, does any one mind if I respond to the reasoning behind some of the rules?


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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 5/31/2012 11:41 PM   
Jim Duda



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Status: offline 		Respond away, O Captain, My Captain...!

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 6/1/2012 12:23 AM   
gunfighter


 

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Status: offline 		I don't want to step on any toes, so forgive me if I do.

The discussion of whether twin wing servo's was a legal modification to the SRM2 was very loud and contentious when I was still active in the sport! there was talk of just putting the LA racer wing on the SRM2, of allowing 2 servo's inside the fuse and many other designs. There was never any evidence that this mod made any difference in the speed of the SRM 2 airframe, but it was noted that it DID improve SAFETY. There were several instances where a minor mid air would damage one of the wing servo's in the LA racer and the plane could still be landed with the other one. On the SRM 2, a hit often stripped the single aileron servo (or broke the control horn or servo arm) and usually resulted in a total loss of control. In the end, we just stated that 2 wing servo's were allowed and left it at that.

I, and many others at that time, ran mini servo's in the LA racer. We also experimented with flaperons, flap and elevator mixing etc. We had one pilot that used 2 mini servo's inside the fuse of an SRM 2, and while it was a novel set up, it did not help him when pitted against "The Jasons"!

In the end, all of these "Improvements" did not make much difference. The pilot that learned how to fly SMOOTH around the pylons usually ended up with the win.

BTW, Ken and Don - I still have the original "allowable modifications list" if you would like it.
e-mail me- chuckstt@gvtc.com

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 6/1/2012 2:30 AM   
DonStegall



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Status: offline 		Thanks for that info Chuck. I don't know if I ever heard the full story.

I do know I feel better with dual aileron servos in all of my Club 40 planes, be it LA Racer 40 or Sky Raider Mach II with them internal. I posted a picture elsewhere of a typical SRM2 install. I can't win a race either way or with either plane. But I'm going to practice a lot between now and October.

The last revision of the "Acceptable Modifications" is still on the old RCPRO site, but not on the menus. One can get to it at http://www.rcpro.org/html/rules/club_40/modifications.htm for historical purposes. I had posted the link in the RCPRO Committee forum for the committee to review.

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 6/1/2012 3:51 AM   
Ken Erickson



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Status: offline 		Thanks, Chuck. I was going to say that Don had them. He got it said first first.

The committee tried very hard to include the allowed mods in a one-page "Rule" sheet. We think we got it. The latest thing folks are questioning is landing gear.
Ken

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 6/1/2012 4:19 AM   
skull1971



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ken Erickson

Thanks, Chuck. I was going to say that Don had them. He got it said first first.

The committee tried very hard to include the allowed mods in a one-page ''Rule'' sheet. We think we got it. The latest thing folks are questioning is landing gear.
Ken

Landing gear,, should be what came out of the box, wheels too, what's the question?

I'm still mad about the bladder tank thing myself.

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 6/1/2012 4:31 AM   
gunfighter


 

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Status: offline 		What about the bladder tank Skully? I just read over the new rules and they are allowed...

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 6/1/2012 5:29 AM   
skull1971



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Status: offline 		the word is that after 2012 they will not be allowed. Oldbob and I even talked about it at Waco.
I look at it this way,, I spent the extra $20, and a year of my time to figure them out, just to have a rule changed that I didn't even get a vote in. Kinda like clipping the tips of the 10.5x4.5 props, we can't do that anymore either. You should have seen the "Prop Wars" a couple years ago,, that was fun.

Now a little back story Chuck, in 2009 or 2010, we, the race CD's in Texas Club 40, agreed to the RCPRO rules as Ken and them them every year. It was an effort to keep everything the same in the state, and traveling from event to event wouldn't require changing the planes. Do the tanks give me an advantage? I don't know, but since I have gotten a handle on them and how to set the needle, I've gone from mid pack to up front. I guess I really don't want to "Upset the apple cart" and start over.



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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 6/1/2012 12:14 PM   
DonStegall



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quote:

ORIGINAL: skull1971

...

Do the tanks give me an advantage? I don't know, but since I have gotten a handle on them and how to set the needle, I've gone from mid pack to up front.

...



Eric,

This is the issue that is causing us problems. There is definitely a perception that they have an advantage. Some groups, and most visibly on RCU, the Alabama group, have a "no bladder tank" set of rules. Nothing against them. I understand why they have it. I have a long piece in the RCPRO Committee forum about it. I think even the T-34 Racing Group has gone to no bladder tanks as well. A number of groups have gone to this.

The biggest issue is supply of the tanks and usage of the tanks on the flight line.


quote:

ORIGINAL: skull1971

just to have a rule changed that I didn't even get a vote in.



This is something we need to think about. We have allowed interested parties to join the RCPRO Club 40 Committee as long as balance for regions was maintained. Perhaps Club 40 is at a point where we need to have a bigger vote before the rules are changed.

The only rule that has been voted on is the bubbleless tanks. But it is not finalized.

We are also considering the Evolution 40NX. The issue with it is that it is actually a .4113, but it says 40 on the head. And we have very few .40 engines these days.

There are some other issues being considered to clarify items that were covered in the "Acceptable Modifications" list.

BTW, I'm no longer getting notifications from RCU. Anyone else having that problem?

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 6/1/2012 1:40 PM   
Alabama Racer


 

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Status: offline 		Some clarification on the fuel tanks. They are not "bladder" tanks. The liner in the
tank does not supply any pressure - it simply keeps air bubbles out of your
fuel supply. There is no problem with supply of the tanks. Call Dub Jett or order
at Jettengineeringdotcom. As to the usage of the tank on the flight line, just
unclip your hemostat and crank her up - no issue at all.
But, since they are not allowed here in AL, it does not matter.

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RE: LA Racer 40 - Mini servos in the wing - 6/1/2012 2:03 PM   
DonStegall



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Status: offline 		Actually there is an issue at the flight line. Not actually at the flight line. It is at the fueling station. In Charlotte, I had people taking the tops off of the fueling jugs with pumps on them. Even though there was a separate jugs just for the "bubbless" users. One jug apparently wasn't enough for them. In fact I had two jugs for them at all times. It was a hassle.

So I can empathize with the groups that have had issues with the non-clunk tanks.

I use JETT tanks myself.

I personally prefer the reliability and non-leaking superiority of the JETT or Tettra tanks and I believe that they are money well spent. No fuel soaked fuselages. No cooked engines if you can tune an engine and properly fill a tank. And they are not hard to use once someone shows you how or you spend a little time with a tanker and a tank.

Tettra tanks are readily available from http://www.centralhobbies.com at http://www.centralhobbies.com/Fuel/fueltnk2.html

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