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Heng Long IR LED - 6/19/2012 4:19 AM   
B.A.D.A.S.S.Force



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Status: online 		I'm a little confused with Heng Long IR LEDs which are factory provided in their tanks, from those that can be purchased separately or sent as a replacement for a toasted IR LED, especially after reading this from OZ Armor under their $4 Heng Long Replacement Infrared LED page, "Replacement Infrared LED for your 1/16 IR compatible Heng Long RC Tank. Combines an emulated muzzle flash with an IR beam."

So Heng Long offers 2 different types of IR LEDs, one that is just an IR emitter (totally invisible to the naked eye), while another is a combination of white muzzle flash & IR emitter?

I ask because both my Panther G & KV-1 came with a separate white muzzle flash LED (bright white light when firing) in their barrels with the IR emitter as a separate LED in the mantlets (no visible light when firing, unless using a digital camera to view).

My Panther's IR emitter was blown, so Matomart just sent me a supposed replacement for it. After I installed it, I get some bright white flashing from the Panther's mantlet when firing now that lights up the area like a flash grenade, haha, but my KV-1 does not register any hits from it at all.
I like the idea of a single dual purpose flash / IR LED combo, then I could just replace the main gun's current flash only LED with it, & not hav to use any IR LED in the mantlet.

But now I'm not sure what the issue is, so if this new LED Matomart sent is supposed to be this dual function flash / IR LED, then the IR emitter part still doesn't seem to work, or the LED Matomart sent is just a basic flash LED without IR, or worse, maybe the KV-1 is having issues accepting an IR hit.

I tried 3 different HL IR sensor towers in the KV-1 & it won't accept a hit from the Panther,  while the Panther accepts hits from the KV-1 using the same sensors.

Guess I'll have to open up the KV-1 turret & check the wiring for the IR sensor & possibly see if there are any easily spotted issues.
Wishing I had a 3rd tank already for more testing. 

Anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a normal IR LED (invisible to the naked eye) which would work in my HL Panther mantlet like the original one?

~ Craig ~


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RE: Heng Long IR LED - 6/19/2012 4:29 AM   
FreakyDude



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Status: offline 		lol this is hilarious. I just got my IR upgrade half done mounted the IR Emitter and thought now ain't that funny. An IR beam you can see, flashes real quick maybe 2 or 3 times. Now you say that your KV doesn't register a hit using it. I don't like the white flashing  that is what the muzzle flash is for.
let us know how you get on with this issue.


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RE: Heng Long IR LED - 6/19/2012 5:00 AM   
B.A.D.A.S.S.Force



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ORIGINAL: FreakyDude

lol this is hilarious. I just got my IR upgrade half done mounted the IR Emitter and thought now ain't that funny. An IR beam you can see, flashes real quick maybe 2 or 3 times. Now you say that your KV doesn't register a hit using it. I don't like the white flashing  that is what the muzzle flash is for.
let us know how you get on with this issue.

Well, to be truthful, I'm not sure whether the LED I was sent is one of those combo LED's or there was an error & I was sent a regular muzzle flash LED. I am emailing Matomart to inquire.

I would however like it if it actually worked as a flash & IR emitter, it would be perfect to then replace the main gun flash with it & just remove the mantlet IR LEDs altogether.
I'm assuming that this LED should be wired back into the same location where the original IR LED wires were cut, as that is where I wired it, & I'm not sure if these combo flash / IR LED units work as well as the regular IR LED that come with the tanks. If they don't, then I would rather just get an IR LED that was like the original & put it back in the mantlet, & keep the separate muzzle LED just like it is & be done with it.

If both functions of these combo LEDs, flash & IR emitter, do work as well as the separate stock HL flash & IR emitter LEDs, then I have no issues replacing the muzzle flash with it & removing the mantlet IR LED. If that was done, could the muzzle flash wire connection then be used instead of wiring it where the IR LED is currently connected?

~ Craig ~

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RE: Heng Long IR LED - 6/19/2012 5:26 AM   
YHR



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Status: offline 		Tamiya's and compatible systems use IR LEDs which are 940nm Wavelength, Your best supply is an electronics supply shop, when you can buy these for less then 50 cents.

Mouser has a whole range of IR emmiter LEDs with different beam patterns.

What I am not sure about is the actual wave length on the HL system, so sorry. However when you find out the Wave length, Mouser probbly has a whole range of those emitters as well.

< Message edited by YHR -- 6/19/2012 6:47 PM >

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RE: Heng Long IR LED - 6/19/2012 6:33 AM   
mfpage



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Status: offline 		I sucessfully converted a HL Airsoft Walker Bulldog to HL IR battle system.  Use Radio Shack: 940nm High-Output 5mm Infrared LED from Radio Shack Part #276-0143.

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RE: Heng Long IR LED - 6/19/2012 10:32 AM   
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Status: offline 		My stock IR KV-1 from evilbay has a white flash when i fire a shot and it registers with my Panther G that also has a white flash. These two tanks are both standard.
I am not sure what you mean when you say there are versions of these tanks out there from heng long that dont have the white flash and only have the IR beam!



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RE: Heng Long IR LED - 6/19/2012 12:43 PM   
ausf



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Status: offline 		I didn't know there were LEDs that had both IR and visible light.

In terms of wiring, you could hook an IR emitter to a battery (with the appropriate resistor) and register hits, it's just a LED, so which lead you wire it to on the tank shouldn't matter, as long as it triggers with the stick. As a matter of fact, I think HL tanks can be hit with a universal TV remote. I know I tried different bandwidth sensors which do.

LEDs can be as bright as a spotlight or a dull glow and can be all different spread patterns, same goes for IR but it's rated in the light spectrum instead of brightness. If you go to DigiKey, you can see the specs on them, literally thousands. In my searches, I haven't found one that has stated range greater than 16 meters, but these are some of the best available. That's why I want to test Tamiya, since people say there good for over 100 feet (unfortunately, no room in my house is bigger than 24). I have IR emitters that register hits through solid white PVC from 30 feet, yet there not rated over 16 meters. Lowering the resistance can increase range but shorten the life of the LED, so that may be where the difference is. I know most of us exceed ratings and intended purposes all the time.

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RE: Heng Long IR LED - 6/19/2012 4:11 PM   
B.A.D.A.S.S.Force



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Status: online 		Thanks for the info YHR & mfpage. Though I realize it will be way more expensive than anywhere else, I'll try one of those Radio Shack IR LED since it will be quick & only a couple bucks anyway.

The strange thing is that I found info on Darkith's website (here) discussing the DBU & HL electronics, so unless I'm miss interpreting his article, he states the HBU seemed to be looking more for 880nm because his DBC IR LED was emitting a more narrow 940nm band with <5% at 840nm, so hits from is DBC only worked at a very close range. Maybe these Radio Shack IR LEDs just emit more at the 880nm than the IR LEDs he used so they work better. If Radio Shack has some 880nm IR LEDs I'll pick one of those up too for tests.

~ Craig ~


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RE: Heng Long IR LED - 6/19/2012 4:42 PM   
B.A.D.A.S.S.Force



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quote:

ORIGINAL: TigerTankMan

My stock IR KV-1 from evilbay has a white flash when i fire a shot and it registers with my Panther G that also has a white flash. These two tanks are both standard.
I am not sure what you mean when you say there are versions of these tanks out there from heng long that dont have the white flash and only have the IR beam!


TigerTankMan, I didn't actually state there weren't any HL IR version tanks without the white muzzle flash & only an IR beam, you misinterpreted my initial post.
I'm saying that there seems to be versions of the LEDs for the HL tanks which have both a white flash of visible light with the IR signal stream for battling, & both in a single LED.

I'm not 100% certain, but I thought all Super IR version HL tanks come with the actual IR LED which sends the signal to register hits, located in the mantlets & not in the gun barrel. This mantlet positioned IR LED does not put out any visible light to the naked eye, you only see the flash of IR light from it when looking at it through a digital viewfinder like those on digital cameras. But I can only speak for the 2 HL tanks I received from Matomart, so maybe HL also sends some out with just this dual purpose LED in the barrel.

Maybe this will explain what I was referring to in better terms. Yes, both my Panther G & KV-1 stock Super IR version HL tanks came with the white muzzle flash LED in the gun barrel, but that is not the IR LED that is used to register hits on another tank. The IR LED used to register hits on other tanks is located inside the mantlet, not in the gun barrel, & it does not give off any visible light to the naked eye when firing.

All I have to do to test this theory (& you can test your own HL tanks the same way) about which LED is the IR LED which can be registered for tank hits, is to use the "K" button for firing instead of using the left stick up firing method. When using just the K button there is no white muzzle flash or any visible light that comes from either tank, yet the tank being shot at will register a hit. The other way is to place a piece of tape over the LED on the mantlet & use the left stick up firing method. When I do that, I get the pretty white flash from the muzzle LED, but the other tank will not register any hit. So the LED responsible for the white muzzle flash in my tanks are not sending any IR beam that is used to detect tank hits by the sensor tower of another tank.


~ Craig ~



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RE: Heng Long IR LED - 6/19/2012 9:39 PM   
B.A.D.A.S.S.Force



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quote:

ORIGINAL: mfpage
I sucessfully converted a HL Airsoft Walker Bulldog to HL IR battle system.  Use Radio Shack: 940nm High-Output 5mm Infrared LED from Radio Shack Part #276-0143.
Mfpage
Well, I couldn't find any 880nm IR LEDs at Radio Shack, but I picked up a couple of those that you used above. Put it in the Panther & right away the KV-1 took a hit when fired upon ... so success, thanks!

With the KV-1 working perfectly then, I have to assume the LED Matomart sent me was just simply a muzzle flash LED & not also an IR.

~ Craig ~



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RE: Heng Long IR LED - 6/20/2012 12:27 AM   
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Status: offline 		It was more than likely just a machine gun LED. The flash units for HL are high tension high voltage LED's. They work on a completely different principle and you would not be able to combine an IR LED and a simple Flash LED in the same bulb. IR is not visible as you say to the human eye.
 The poster has the right idea. Mato simply sent him the incorrect LED. The mg and IR LED's look similar and both use a 2 pin connector. The flash unit has multiple wires and different plugs. You cant mistaken 1 for the other.


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RE: Heng Long IR LED - 6/20/2012 3:26 AM   
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Status: online 		Ausf, have you tried the "wire the LED to a battery and register hits" trick?  Just wondering, because as far as I knew the LED's in HL and Tamiya tanks both shoot a binary code string via the IR LED.  It'd be cool not to have to worry about that!

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RE: Heng Long IR LED - 6/20/2012 5:01 AM   
ausf



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quote:

ORIGINAL: whiteknight1066

Ausf, have you tried the ''wire the LED to a battery and register hits'' trick?  Just wondering, because as far as I knew the LED's in HL and Tamiya tanks both shoot a binary code string via the IR LED.  It'd be cool not to have to worry about that!


I was testing a variety of stuff a couple of months ago, I don't remember. I know I fired emitters that way, not sure if it was registering on HL, Tamiya, iPad or a separate sensor. I've been trying a ton of stuff. I know the universal remote set off one, I believe it was HL. I was testing TBUs, DBUs, HLUs, Mako, DBC 2 and 3 in all different configurations over time. Including all different emitters and sensors.

I do know I haven't been using the RX-18 to fire an emitter at since the very beginning.

I didn't think there was any data transfer with these systems, I thought it was just a switch. Data transfer would be awesome though, then it's conceivable to really taylor the programming of battling.



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RE: Heng Long IR LED - 6/21/2012 6:49 AM   
whiteknight1066


 

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Status: online 		Ok, that's what I thought.  I'm 90% certain that there's an actual digital code that gets "shot" by the firing LED.  It's why you can do "fan" shots; the code is retransmitted a number of times to ensure the recieving tank gets a clear transmission.  As far as I know the Tamiya's actually have a "one hit kill" code (that is pretty secret, since I've heard about it but no-one I know actually uses it), and the IBU uses a proprietary code as a "repair" feature.  Your universal remote shoots your tanks because it parrots back what it was "taught" to do, which is send back the code it originally recieved.  This month's issue of MAKE magazine has an interesting, informative,and kinda intimidating article on how IR remotes work, and I think our tanks work the same way.  Not the most helpful piece of info, I know, but that's kinda what I know at the moment.  Darkith, Tankzone, and the other small battle unit manufacturers all know what the code is, but I have no idea.

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