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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 8/20/2012 9:22 PM   
Seamus OLeprosy



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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/4/2012 12:00 PM   
Henke Torphammar



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Status: offline 		Ikea seems to be the world wide service point HK is talking about, stocking up on spareparts for the HK turbine.



< Message edited by Henke Torphammar -- 11/4/2012 2:27 PM >

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/4/2012 1:46 PM   
J.F


 

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/4/2012 8:00 PM   
rcaircraftnut


 

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Status: offline 		I too am of a wait and see attitude, not because I lack skill or knowlege, but because I have a limited budget of time and money. If there were a proven reliable inexpensive turbine with parts availible and decent support I would be all over it. Untill that time I will fly ducted fans. As far as worrying (tired and cant spell) about someone having no or low skill getting thie hands on one pls consider the fact that I have under $50 in my Jett Q500 .40 powered 32" Scremin Demon and it is faster than a lot of turbin jets I have seen in person. I also have another Demon that is getting a Jett F.I.R.E. .50 on a pipe that is ported to turn over 20,000 static. It should go real close to 200 mph or more. These models take no more skill to fly than a sport low wing model. My 3D birds are much harded to fly and controll as they can turn and react much more quickly. I have never ordered from HK as I am impatient and usually buy from my LHS or used from friends.

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/6/2012 9:45 AM   
extra 300


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justflying1

 I'm not here to say anything bad about this turbine as I don’t know ant thing about it.
I will however say that before you buy this turbine you mite what to think about a few things.
1.  Price compared to other brands.  We all know that Kingtech has have a relatively cheep turbine which is proven, and reliable.  
2.  Are parts available.
3.  Where do I get it serviced.  Who is willing to touch it.
4.  Does it run as reliable as other proven turbines.
5.  Can you get support if you have problems.
6.  Are you willing to be the guinea pig until these turbines get a name for them selves.
7.  Well if you are willing to be a guinea pig lets hope that the name they get is a good one for your sake. 
 
Sometimes but not always something cheep ends up being very expensive. 
 
Just my 2cents worth to think about everyone.



Above is very well said. I would add only one comment and that it flying Turbine jets is no joke and not to be compared to any type of RC flying objects. In case of failure, serious injury and damage could be of consequence and the whole Hobby could be at stake because of this. i.e. if Turbines become more accessible to average budgeted flyers this could be a direct cause which could lead to above regardless reliability of product....

Regards,

Regards,

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/6/2012 11:28 AM   
rcaircraftnut


 

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Status: offline 		I am of less than average budget as a flyer. I fly as good or better than most of the unlimited budget flyers I have seen and met. Believe me it makes them very upset. I have learned over the last 21 years in the hobby that money does not equal responsibility or skill. Your elitist attitude is not welcome by me or others like me. If what you say is fact, then if I being a below average budget modeler, save up and buy a turbine. ANT TURBINE! I will immediately go and and do something with it to end all aeromodeling worldwide as I don't the money and budget to be a turbine. flyer. Pls take a long look at what you posted and then at yourself. You need to realise that we are all grown men, well some of us are still boys, playing with TOY aircraft. Rant off.

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/6/2012 12:03 PM   
extra 300


 

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Status: offline 		rcaircraftnut,

Didn't mean to offend anyone here. I fully agree with you that it has nothing to do with money!! Skills and sens of responsability is the key to safer flying. The idea i was trying to convey was with less expensive turbine stuff available around, you will have much more people interested in going into jets than ever before and consequently increasing the potential of having serious accidents.

BTW, i am also an average budgeted flyer and personnaly, i would love to see cheaper, affordable turbines offered on the market....



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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/6/2012 10:05 PM   
rcaircraftnut


 

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Status: offline 		I am sorry I seem to have misread your post. I just deal with so much of the my wallet is bigger than yours crowd at the same time as the 3D is bad for the hobby crowd, along with the ALL3D is UNSAFE crowd, that I sometimes overreact. I enjoy all segments of this wonderfull hobby. I do it to escape from the reality of my less than wonderfull life lol. I dont like drama mixed in with my fun. So anyone who gets that I am better than you because I have more money attitude really upsets me. I have been flying rc for over 20 yrs and they never seem to get the point. We ALL need to coegsist so that everyone can enjoy the hobby. I fly scale, 3D, helis, sport, speed, and now am getting into jets for the first time. I also have done cars, trucks, and combat warships in the past. Got fed up with the warship club for taking it to the extreem with realism. Build to scale, scale speed, scale turnig radius, scale size guns, only cargo vessles without armament can ram, ect. list went on for days. Took the fun rite out of it.

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/7/2012 7:55 PM   
YellowAircraft



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I might get flamed for saying this, but I think this facet of the hobby is one crash-n-burn away from going bye-bye. If HK (and outfits like them which specialize in cheap/volume-with-no-need-for-quality-or-support as a business model) get into the turbine business, then that's just that many more people (who don't know any better) out there buying dangerous junk. If you can't trust HK to get the small things right, then why on earth would you trust them to get the big things right? If HK's reputation is basically that all they really care about is whether or not you bought it... and not if you're happy with it... then why should a high-stakes, complicated item like a turbine be any different?

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/7/2012 8:31 PM   
Eddie P



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Status: offline 		I've bought a lot from HK in the past. Been burned a lot too, and have gone to battle with them on PayPal and charge backs when they have taken my money without shipping product or shipped whole hardheartedly defective products. Specifically, they sell junk if there is electronics involved with potentially a few gems in there here and there. However, I have also been happy with some things and some experiences with HK to be fair. Wire and shrink tube is a good deal, and some hardware like bolts, etc, I will still occasionally buy still in the future but no more on anything big. As far as the batteries go, I've had good luck with them in the past and have also gotten a few turds but I have not bothered to try to get my money back on the defective ones.

After my last foray into HK junk I finally admitted to the pattern that I was in with not getting what I needed with HK. I've pretty much resigned myself that the three year "experiment" into buying from them has cost me a lot of time and saved me only a few pennies up front. BUT, it has then cost me a lot more in the end because I eventually buy a quality item later to replace the "deal" I thought I stumbled upon. I could have saved on the purchase price of the junk item by not buying it and saved a big load on the expensive shipping and saved precious time if I had just gone with what I knew would work the first time for a little more up front. As far as batteries go, there are now better choices available to me to purchase from domestic sources here that provide better product (lighter plus better voltage) for not a whole lot more compared the to performance upgrade I get.

As an experienced turbine modeler I would have to say to any friend of mine considering buying a turbine from Hobby King: Get ahold of yourself mate! Don't do it! I've got a lot of experience flying turbines and I've got a lot of experience buying from HK. They are not a good fit IMHO. A new turbine modeler needs and wants a local/regional source for technical and maintenance support that is experienced and a phone call away. Believe me, it will make the difference between a lot of regret and a very happy experience. I can't see for one moment that anyone will get that level of support you will want and need from HK. And good luck on any resale value if you buy a HK turbine. With, for example, a Wren or a Jetcat or anything else legit you'd be able to get something out of the deal in a re sale or trade in when you wanted to move up or on to something else. I don't see that happening with a Jet Joe or a HK turbine.

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/7/2012 9:34 PM   
marquisvns



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quote:

ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft

Hi,

I might get flamed for saying this, but I think this facet of the hobby is one crash-n-burn away from going bye-bye. If HK (and outfits like them which specialize in cheap/volume-with-no-need-for-quality-or-support as a business model) get into the turbine business, then that's just that many more people (who don't know any better) out there buying dangerous junk. If you can't trust HK to get the small things right, then why on earth would you trust them to get the big things right? If HK's reputation is basically that all they really care about is whether or not you bought it... and not if you're happy with it... then why should a high-stakes, complicated item like a turbine be any different?

I also might get flamed Sean, especially being the distributor for an already established brand of turbine engines.

Since the prices of aluminum and inconel is a constant worldwide, it's doubtful that anyone could get the price of a turbine engine any lower and still be reliable, not mentioning performance, service and support...

Good luck to all,
Barry




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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/7/2012 10:23 PM   
Seamus OLeprosy



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Status: offline 		Material costs may be similar the world over but other costs vary widely. What percentage  of the retail cost on a Jet Cat or Kingtec are aluminium and inconel?


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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/7/2012 10:48 PM   
marquisvns



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Status: offline 		Probably more than most people think, especially after machining, cost of R&D and making and remaking of molds....., nevertheless, good luck and all the best!

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/7/2012 11:40 PM   
Seamus OLeprosy



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Status: offline 		Machining, R&D and toolmaking are not material costs.

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/8/2012 1:05 AM   
YellowAircraft



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This has little to do with my point. If the engine Barry deals cost them $100 to make, it wouldn't change anything. Barry has established a certain reputation in this business with his product and his support. Kingtech engines have proven to be a well-supported, quality product.... that's the reputation. That reputation supports a newbie going that route for a competitively-priced alternative to more expensive brands. Hobby King has also established a certain reputation, and that reputation substantiates the case for steering clear of them on a high-end purchase like a turbine.

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/8/2012 3:51 AM   
sskianpour


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft

Hi,

This has little to do with my point. If the engine Barry deals cost them $100 to make, it wouldn't change anything. Barry has established a certain reputation in this business with his product and his support. Kingtech engines have proven to be a well-supported, quality product.... that's the reputation. That reputation supports a newbie going that route for a competitively-priced alternative to more expensive brands. Hobby King has also established a certain reputation, and that reputation substantiates the case for steering clear of them on a high-end purchase like a turbine.


+1

Pretty much sums up both Barry's reputation, and Hobbyking's.

Shaz

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/8/2012 7:02 AM   
Seamus OLeprosy



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Status: offline 		Sorry guys you I was addressing this point he raised 

"Since the prices of aluminum and inconel is a constant worldwide, it's doubtful that anyone could get the price of a turbine engine any lower and still be reliable......"

He does not see how the price of a turbine reduced because the price of materials is constant On a purely economic basis it's not the savings on material costs that potentially will give new manafactureres a cost advantage. 



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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/8/2012 7:56 AM   
RCJetBazz


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Seamus OLeprosy

...On a purely economic basis it's not the savings on material costs that potentially will give new manafactureres a cost advantage. 




You aint' done with your statment, what is it? cloning or violating proprietary rights? inferior materials?



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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/8/2012 8:00 AM   
YellowAircraft



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Status: offline 		Hi,

I can only go by what I see, and what I've seen in my years as a hobby shop manager and a long-time jet pilot/builder tells me what I've already stated. In a way, it's great for you that your experience leads you to a different conclusion, but that doesn't make my conclusion 'nonsense.'

You may not have needed service or support (again, a GREAT thing), but I have a feeling that if when the day came that you DID need support and HK told you to go kick rocks... you'd be none too happy.

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/8/2012 8:56 AM   
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Status: offline 		While you guys have been bickering the latest exciting instalment of the engine videos is out. Bruce has still got the engine mounts the wrong way round and is does not look like he has started it as he is getting an error message on the ecu. From what he says there is no danger that a production engine will arrive sometime soon.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rF8lVdlsBFs

John


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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/8/2012 10:35 AM   
Henke Torphammar



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he is getting an error message on the ecu.



It probably says someting completely out of the box such as "bad glow"


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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/8/2012 10:44 AM   
Airplanes400



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Status: offline 		Throughout industries, the most expensive cost to any product are; the initial R&D, production, and labor. R&D, production and labor costs are less expensive overseas, in paticular India and China. That is why many raw materials are exported to other countries, then imported back to the USA for distribution and sale. Labor and production are usually 60% of the final cost of the finished product. Bringing labor overseas can reduce labor costs by as much as 90%. That brings labor costs down to 5% or 8% instead of 60%.

Materials can be as little as .001%, or as much as 21% of the cost.

Regardless, there is usually a 90~100% mark-up as the retail level. That equates to their cost being 50 to 60% of the selling price. At the manufacturing level, the final cost of a finished product can be as little as .1% to 20% of the retail price.

Anyone who tells you at the retail level that their cost is only 10% less than their selling price, is lying. There is no way any store or company can exist with just a 10% profit from the sale of a product. Maybe their final (net) profit is 10% after paying all overhead expenses (rent, payroll, taxes, loan expenses, insurance, etc), but not their gross profit. If their gross profit was 10%, they'd be operating in the red, and be out of business quickly.

So, manufacturing overseas is a viable method of keeping product costs down, while keeping profits as high as possible.

Gold has a 500% markup on the retail level, while diamonds have a 1000% markup on the retail level. That means, the $3000 diamond you got for your wife or girlfriend actually cost the dealer just $300. (Three hundred dollars).

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/8/2012 11:18 AM   
Xairflyer



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Henke Torphammar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jgwright

he is getting an error message on the ecu.



It probably says something completely out of the box such as ''bad glow''


that would have really confused him as it is meant to be kero start

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/8/2012 11:40 AM   
alasdair



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Status: offline 		Retail Markup!  You are right, that's where the Chinese may score I think.

Years ago (1990s) I wanted a new radio set, the latest super radio being the JR388.
My LHS price was £565, and the big mail order discounters were doing it for something like £515  plus P&P.

I went into a LHS in Hong Kong (on a regular work trip) and the helpful proprietor (Kevin Lee) offered exacly the same set with better servos, 35 MHz, European spec and approval stickers, for £235. Spread over half a dozen visits I bought two and a half sets (and the two Tx are still in use with 2.4 GHz modules).

Assuming the price was the same at the factory gates in Japan, and allowing for  15% UK tax (back then) and 1% carriage for the extra shipping distance, the UK distributor and retailer must operate on vastly greater margins than the Hong Kong distributor and shop.

Is this still true today?
Or has the advent of cross border mail order selling cut out some middle men and brought in more realistic margins? I bought my new Spektrum radio in the UK, at a price not outragously above the US  price, or worldwide internet prices.

I noticed that HobbyKing are now selling a £9 copy of the German PowerBox Sensor switch that I bought in the UK for £80

I'll be interested to see if they can do that fopr turbines, but I really doubt it. 


< Message edited by alasdair -- 11/8/2012 12:01 PM >

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/8/2012 12:06 PM   
Xairflyer



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Status: offline 		6 months ago I lost my LAN tester (cat5/network cable tester, can be used to test jetcat data leads) I was in my local maplin store and they had one listed for £9.95 which I thought was great as I paid £69 for mine about ten years ago.
It was out of stock so thought I will order it online when I get back home, I looked on ebay and got the same one from china for 99p Yes £0.99p with 96p postage!!
Other electronic suppliers are selling the same one for £19.95

It is all about volume, just look at the mobile phone accessories, phone shops charging £20+ for a phone cover/case/charger when the same thing can be bought on ebay for less than £2

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