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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/8/2012 5:28 PM   
rgburrill



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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCJetBazz

can't you imaging the consequence of masssively distributed cheap and unreliable turbine engines, with no support

quote:

ORIGINAL: jetster81


quote:

ORIGINAL: RCJetBazz

This hits the market, before long, goes our privilege for turbine flying

D.



?




And tied into an FPV system by someone who doesn't believe he must keep visual contact with his jet!

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/8/2012 6:08 PM   
I_Fly


 

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I've made several of these bargan purchases over the past few years.   Most worked out but a few haven't.   One was a name brand battery charger for a digital camera.   $75 +shipping in the US and a six week wait due to some type of back order.   I found it online for $7 including shipping through ebay.   It was clearly labled as comming from China.   How coult I go wrong for 1/10th the cost?  As with other things like this it arrived in a week or two and looked good.  Still skeptical I plugged it in to charge the battery.  The indicator light came on so I thought all was good.  The next day my battery was still dead.  The battery was not the issue since it charges just fine using one of my airplane chargers and alegator clips.  The new charger was junk.   Something that was either not checked or failed the inspection durring manufacturer.   Overall these things work out but sometimes you get burned.  It should be well known by now that many of these oversees items didn't make the quality benchmark. 

HK is similar.   Don't expect great severice because that is not part of their business plan.   Be careful what you order and don't be shocked or dissapointed if it does not work out.  My experiance, even with using customer service, has been good but I know it's that every order is a roll of the dice.   My guess is someone with jet experiance and  may be able to get these to work just fine.   Somone without jet experiance?  


quote:

ORIGINAL: Xairflyer

6 months ago I lost my LAN tester (cat5/network cable tester, can be used to test jetcat data leads) I was in my local maplin store and they had one listed for £9.95 which I thought was great as I paid £69 for mine about ten years ago.
It was out of stock so thought I will order it online when I get back home, I looked on ebay and got the same one from china for 99p Yes £0.99p with 96p postage!!
Other electronic suppliers are selling the same one for £19.95

It is all about volume, just look at the mobile phone accessories, phone shops charging £20+ for a phone cover/case/charger when the same thing can be bought on ebay for less than £2



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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/9/2012 12:18 AM   
john josey


 

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/9/2012 1:16 AM   
OliverJacob


 

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Status: offline 		One thing they will accomplish is that the prices for turbines will come down, if theirs is somewhat reliable.
Now the material costs are a very small fraction of the product price, HK will be able to sell a turbine for much less then everybody else.

Now there are many modelers who want a turbine, but are not willing to pay for one. If they get a HK turbine and it turns out to be junk, they might just break down and buy a better one, they still want one and they bought the plane to put it in...

We have seen an early stage of testing, no one knows much about it. They will have to do extensive testing, customers are rather skeptical and don't want to be the first ones to buy this. But a lot of people are interested in this.

Let's see what they will come up with


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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/9/2012 2:00 AM   
YellowAircraft



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My prediction is a bunch of deadsticks and couple of fires. That's the optimistic guess. That doesn't account for the thrown wheels and bits of sub-par metal flying out of airframes into peoples' faces...

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/9/2012 2:12 AM   
Dr Honda



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This isn't a glow engine... or a big electric motor. When a turbine fails... parts can go flying... and fuel is being pumped into it, causing a fire. JetJoe was lucky that no one was hurt with some of their original stuff.

I hope they come out with a good engine though.

< Message edited by Dr Honda -- 11/9/2012 12:03 PM >


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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/9/2012 11:32 AM   
GerKonig


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr Honda

yellowaircraft is right.


This isn't a glow engine... or a big electric motor. When I turbine fails... parts can go flying... and fuel is being pumped into it, causing a fire. JetJoe was lucky that no one was hurt with some of their original stuff.

I hope they come out with a good engine though.



He is not, pure speculation on a product not STILL available. and you have the brain surgeons already commenting on the quality of a non-existent (for sale) product.

I am looking forward to real reviews of real users, of a real product, whenever it materializes... and If I would be a dealer (of anything) of the competence, I would also wait to have the product available and tested before creating doomsday scenarios. Why? Because I do not think it is smart marketing or brand building to do otherwise. But, what do I know...

Gerry

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/9/2012 3:41 PM   
YellowAircraft



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Call me jaded, but I don't think HK's motive is to 'help us' and if their business model is any indication, it's a bad type of product to bring to market with cheap materials, non-existent QC and poor service.

Gero, thank you for the advice. It's reassuring and uplifting to know what you'd do as a dealer. Somehow, I doubt you'll be first in line for one of these new engines, though...

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/9/2012 4:42 PM   
YellowAircraft



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No, I haven't spoken directly to them. If their intent is to help, then I would hope they'd start taking some responsibility for their QC. Their reputation for dealing with defective or missing merchandise leaves much to be desired. The problem I have with the 'wait and see' approach is that what I've already seen is the best indicator of what remains to be seen AND the stakes are pretty high. If they flood the market (at least in the short-term) with turbines that have similar quality, QC issues and product support to their current offerings, then it's more than just those customers who stand to lose. When clubs ban turbines because of fires or accidents, they don't typically ban that one pilot. When any type of problem arises out of turbine use, the ill effects usually ripple out beyond the individual user.

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/9/2012 8:21 PM   
Eddie P



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quote:

ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft
When clubs ban turbines because of fires or accidents, they don't typically ban that one pilot. When any type of problem arises out of turbine use, the ill effects usually ripple out beyond the individual user.


Sean don't waste your time debating with guys who want to rush in to something like this. Your points are valid from your perspective. The main resistance I see is some don't actually want to discuss a valid concern from a more global perspective.

The only real sphere of influence we have here in our own borders is the AMA turbine crowd and the JPO network - we do actually have the right to enforce best standards and we do police our own and we should all keep doing things like we have in order to bring the new guys on properly and safely for turbine ops. When a guy comes looking for guidance and a waiver with one of these engines, at least we have the means to double check everything and help the guy make a successful transition regardless of any concerns. For example, if the engine turns out to be a well running power plant and the candidate has done their homework and they are a safe and competent operator... I'd personally be happy to submit a waiver application check on their behalf. But if they arrive to the party with a bolt bucket of an engine that is not reliable or trustworthy and not set up properly then it's game over until changes and upgrades are made for safety. My sincere hope is that all of us continue to actively, in a supportive and friendly way police our own so we continue to have a great future in turbine jets.

The best customers for stuff like this early on (before it becomes a known quantity) are very experienced guys looking to tinker and play. I sure hope turbine noobs don't go this route just yet. The hair just starts to stick up on the back of my neck when I think about untested engines, hot and windy summer days and new jet guys. You are right Sean, we can't afford any dumb mistakes ever, we just don't have the spare political capacity to make silly mistakes without repercussions here in the USA with turbine jets. The suggestion for caution and conservative movement on stuff like this is correct. My earlier and sincere take on personal experience over the years with both Hobby King and Turbine jet flying still stands for now. I still say as of this moment I would never recommend turbine engines and Hobby King to be used in the same sentence by a friend of mine, or even an enemy! Results vary, mileage may vary, proceed with caution until a track record can be established that distinguishes this turbine engine from some of the motors and speed controllers I've had the displeasure of purchasing from HK!

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/9/2012 8:37 PM   
YellowAircraft



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Status: offline 		Eddie,

You're right. Self-policing is the key over here, and several of your other points are valid, too. There's a guy who flies here in San Diego. He tends not to belong to any one club for more than a year because he has issues with rule-breaking and such. He's the type of guy who's got plenty of money, but will ALWAYS go for the 'bargain'... regardless of what you tell him. I tried to help him with a jet, and he insisted on using JR 821's all around in spite of the fact that I told him that those servos had a very high failure rate in my own personal experience. Sure enough, two of them fail on the bench, so he promptly ran out and bought two more. He bought a used jet with an engine that has been long discontinued because he just couldn't pass up the price. Of course, the engine seized and burned up before the plane left the ground. Finally, he shows up to my jet-together with yet another 'bargain' plane with a bargain engine on it. Even though I wasn't the official safety officer, I decided to personally inspect his plane because of my past experience with him. I found some rudder glitching and a steering servo that was intermittently freezing. I grounded him due to the rudder glitching and gave him a list of things he should address before he showed back up at my field. What's he do? Promptly leaves and goes somewhere else to fly his jet. I'll give you three guesses as to how that went.

Of course, not everyone has this mentality. The thing is that for this guy (and lots of guys like him), it's the bottom line price that's the hook and they don't have the experience or information to stay away from the junk. In this case, this guy had plenty of people around him advising him on what to do and what not to do, but it was that price that got him. "I'm sure it'll be fine" was the attitude.

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/9/2012 9:06 PM   
powerjets


 

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Status: online 		Does AMA still have "turbine - approval " as was done in the past ?.
If so, that would take care of this either way, no ?

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/9/2012 9:39 PM   
mr_matt



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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/10/2012 12:16 AM   
OliverJacob


 

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Status: offline 		No, the AMA as an insurance company does not test and certify turbines. The turbine waver is a test for the pilot, mostly done with an EDF.
Still - anybody can buy and own a turbine and fly a jet in certain places.

There will be more people getting into turbines, we will see how reliable they are.
And sure there will be dead sticks and fires, which brand never had any problems?

Biggest problem would be the new and inexperienced users, the first ones at their field with a turbine model.
An irrsponsible user is more of a problem then a faulty turbine



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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/10/2012 12:35 AM   
uncleTom



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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/10/2012 12:47 AM   
Vettster


 

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Status: offline 		Perhaps some of you guys think this engine will be selling for $500. Not even close. Yes it will be less than Kingtech as hinted by Anthony Hand.. But he also suggested that there is no way the 20lber will be selling for less than 1500. That is still a lot of money for someone to invest.

You guys keep talking about all these newbies are now going to be able to enter the Turbine end of the hobby and that they have no experience.

Did EVERYONE here start in this part of the hobby with experience? I know I had no experience. How does once get experience flying turbines if youve never flown one before?

The low cost of the turbine will alow people to enter this end of the hobby?? Are you serious? Whats stopping them right now from buying a used engine?? Thats how I got into it.

Now you guys are saying that the engine could blow apart and kill millions(im exaggerating...but so are you guys) The worst of the storm has already passed. Does Jet Joe ring a bell?? How many people died when their engines failed. Thouse engine were dirt cheap. Did the hobby become banned?

Yes there is a high probability that this is a JetJoe. But obviously it will be greatly modified and brought up to par with other well know companies on the market before they release it. Do you really think that HK wants to gain the same terrible reputation that JJ has acheived. Not very likely.

I just wish HK would stop dinking around and release that damn thing already

Take a pill everybody

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/10/2012 1:41 AM   
rcjetsaok



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That's all I have to say about the whole idea !!!



D


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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/10/2012 2:08 AM   
Vettster


 

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/10/2012 2:19 AM   
rcaircraftnut


 

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/10/2012 2:32 AM   
OliverJacob


 

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Status: offline 		...many poeple do not buy used engines and sure no used turbines, which is somewhat understandable.

In our area there is not much of a market for used turbines, you had to drive very far or have them shipped, not knowing how they run. And a newbie would not know what to look for anyways. With a nitro or gas engine being simpler you can see problems a lot easier.

So I am sure they will be more people flying turbines if they'll be a lot cheaper then the ones we can buy now.
But thats my opinion.

A few years ago people warned us about the poor quality of a DLE engine. They are really great. And they cost a lot less then a DA.
So now we see a lot more large scale planes, with prices of gas engines coming down, they became very popular.

There is a lot of talk about flying jets on most fields and the costs is what keeps people from getting started.

I'd expect to see a HK turbine here and there, not everybody will get one....


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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/10/2012 2:52 AM   
ira d


 

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Status: offline 		I think HK has figured out if they make the price low enough it will sell in spite of their poor customer service reputation. There are some who post here on RCU
that feel that it's ok for HK to operate the way they do because of their low prices.

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/10/2012 3:31 AM   
Vettster


 

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Status: offline 		Funny thing about forums is.. Only people that have had a bad experience post. Good thing! Because if everyone posted their good experiences everyday, there wouldnt be enough room on the internet. I for one have had only one issue with HK in the past 5 years!. One time for what ever reason they changed my mailing address. I entered a ticket and within 2 hrs my problem was resolved. If thats bad service then I dont think anyone could make the HK haters happy.

I have been on RCG for a long time(where the EDF guys hang) I have heard several complaints about damaged planes from shipping.
This is not HK's fault. The blame lies on the shipping companies as they are all gorillas. But in all the cases that I heard of.. once the person contacted HK and POLITELY!! asked for a resolution.. they were given either a replacement part or an entire AC.

I have to say one thing here... Anyone that says the HK turbine will suck because.."I bought a battery and it had a dead cell, so there for their Turbine will suck" is a %@%% ^(&(&(&&*! Your not Seriously comparing a bad servo or burnt out ESC to a Turbine engine! are you people?? If thats the case then I would be more worried about YOU flying at my field than a rooky, cause at least the rooky can tell the difference between a battery etc and a Turbine engine.

The Service networks will be WORLD WIDE. That means you will NOT have to ship it back to HongKong. You might end up shipping it to RTI or some other well known service center, no one knows yet. Just for example.. If HK offers RTI enough money..I doubt that he will turn it down, nor would anyone else that is trying to make a living out of servicing turbine engines.

My prediction is that the HK engine with German parts(as mentioned by Anthony) will work flawlessly. They have to much at stake for it to go wrong.

If I need one at the time and have a plane to put it in..I will gladly be a bata tester.

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/10/2012 3:40 AM   
Justflying1


 

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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/10/2012 6:25 AM   
Seamus OLeprosy



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quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjetsaok

http://www.boxspringsonline.com/the-strange-a-unusual/244-chinese-jet-engine-maintenance-101


That's all I have to say about the whole idea !!!



D



Has there ever been a case of a US maintained airliner crashing and killing people due to poor maintenance or workmanship?



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RE: Hobby King turbine! - 11/10/2012 2:45 PM   
skywagn180


 

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Status: offline 		Yes,

Several US airline crashes have been caused by maintenance, workmanship and engineering errors. Full scale turbine and turbo fan engines throw blades and eat themselves up more than most realize. Even US brands. Everyone should welcome new cheaper products into the market. Foreign competition lowers prices and forces US sellers to provide us better service and products at a lower price to keep us around. Our government has gone all in on a global market and we need to learn to adapt. Notice I did not say US manufacturers, as they are pretty much extinct in the hobby market. Where do you guys think US name brand products are produced? A cheap turbine is one step in furtherance of our hobby. Everyone who thinks a gas turbine is significantly more dangerous than a large Edf jet has been around too many old crusty Ama guys. These are the same guys that are chasing young people off our flying fields nationwide. I don't know how many know how hard it is to get a turbine waiver through the Ama, but it is ridiculously tedious. In fact the procedure could be impossible in some rural areas without traveling hundreds of miles to meet up with flyers qualified to sign you off. Can't wait to see the first cheap turbine fly at my club field. Hell, maybe it will be mine.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Seamus OLeprosy


quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjetsaok

http://www.boxspringsonline.com/the-strange-a-unusual/244-chinese-jet-engine-maintenance-101


That's all I have to say about the whole idea !!!



D



Has there ever been a case of a US maintained airliner crashing and killing people due to poor maintenance or workmanship?




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