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Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 3:07 AM   
reelquick


 

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From: Clifton Heights, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Almost done with my trainer re build- 20 years later.
(steal parts from this to fix that and build a trainer .40 hobbico).
Got the AMA,Joined club. (Thanks for the advice fellow`s).
I was looking up CG and am still learning.
My plastic one looks like Heck, any words ?
Thank You.

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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 3:14 AM   
JeffinTD


 

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Status: offline 		Tru turn alum spinners always look nice, especially when hit with a buffer wheel and polish.

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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 3:31 AM   
reelquick


 

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Status: offline 		OH ! and was doing some research about props on this sight about the 40 LA and I want this bird SLOOOOOOOW .Heard it was junk, but it has 5 Hrs. on it. I have a 10 x 6 and saw that 11.5 will do the Job. With Big foamy wheels. in 3 inch in grass.
I no, you guy`s scream speed and 12000 RPM, but I taught my self on a electric park flyer and am taking off, flying and looping,Touch and go`s, and landing on my own.(In a parking lot on Sunday).
Just wanna start off slow,fly slow,land slow.
Any thoughts.
Thank`s for all the help.
Will keep you posted.

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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 3:55 AM   
Charlie P.



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quote:

OH ! and was doing some research about props on this sight about the 40 LA and I want this bird SLOOOOOOOW.


You chose the right engine.  ;-)

Use a 10 x 6 APC prop and you ought to do fine.  If you want a little slower try an 11 x 4.  The trick to slow is a smooth running engine at idle and low speed.

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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 4:02 AM   
countilaw



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Status: offline 		I think a 10-6  would be good or even a 10-7.       Maintain the ability to get the RPMs up, but fly at   1/2 or  3/4 throttle.    Use the extra throttle  for  climbing and loops.     The ability to have the extra power always comes in handy.    Slinging a too large a prop will  rob the engine of power.

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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 4:32 AM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		Longer prop with a smaller pitch= more torque and a slower plane. Shorter prop and a bigger prop will give you a faster plane with less torque. To you it means an 11X4 will give you a shorter take off run, slower flight but better vertical pull with a quicker slow down for landings. The LA .40 is an under powered engine so I always tended to use the 11X4 and on trainers I use the Master Air Screw prop. Trainers are the only time I use the MAS but they are almost bullet proof so my students could get away with ground strikes and I replaced very few props.

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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 5:05 AM   
Mr67Stang



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quote:

ORIGINAL: reelquick

Almost done with my trainer re build- 20 years later.
(steal parts from this to fix that and build a trainer .40 hobbico).
Got the AMA,Joined club. (Thanks for the advice fellow`s).
I was looking up CG and am still learning.
My plastic one looks like Heck, any words ?
Thank You.


A student brought his Avistar with a 40 LA to our GRASS feild with an 11x5 Master Airscrew prop (stock wheels) and the plane did not have enough power to get off the ground. On a hard surface we could get it flying or with a lucky bounce after the feild was just mowed we could get airborne. Once in the air the engine could power the plane just fine.

Edit: Yes, the alluminium spinners look very nice.

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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 5:13 AM   
JohnBuckner



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quote:

ORIGINAL: reelquick

My plastic one looks like Heck, any words ?
Thank You.



Yes get rid of it and always avoid plastic spinners. Also as a new flyer avoid full aluminum spinners simply because they run from three to four times as much money and those frequently do not survive crashs either.

Instead I strongly suggest these they are called 'Spinner Nuts' :

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXE158&P=RF

They will survive even the most severe crashs, the natural aluminum ones look fantastic especially on a trainer, much better than the cheezy oversized plastics arfs are typically packaged with or the fellows stick on them. And more importantly they are a perfect fit for most starter cones.

John

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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 5:27 AM   
jester_s1


 

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Status: offline 		+1 on the spinner nuts. They are the easy solution and are indestructible.

On the topic of prop choice and the desire to fly slowly, I'm going to caution you not to try and slow down too much. If you're just above stall speed and a wind gust hits you you'll nose dive, and if you turn a little too hard you'll side slip. Too little speed makes a forgiving trainer into a temperamental little punk of a plane. For that engine, a 10x5 should let it unwind and make some power and will give you a nice wide flight envelope. It should cruise well on 60-70% throttle and still have enough reserve to power through a head wind. Don't be tempted to over prop the engine with something like an 11x6. If you put too much prop on, the engine won't get into the rpms where it makes decent horsepower and will just barely fly.

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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 8:26 AM   
da Rock



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Status: offline 		We all have beliefs about what prop ought to work best, but we really aren't the one that really makes the decision. The airplane is the one that decides.

Your model and engine decide what prop works best. We don't. We just provide the model/engine with some different props to try out.

You should pick up a couple of different props and try them. You say you're presently running a 10x6 but might like to fly slower? Try an 11x5. Readjust your needle valve so it runs good and see how it flies. It should load the engine about the same as the 10x6 and that's good. When the load is different, the engine might run hotter or it might run faster depending if the load is heavier or lighter. None of us have seen your model and even if we had, we couldn't predict how it's going to take to whatever props you choose. Even identical props from the same manufacturer may run differently, so predicting is like fortune telling. If the 11x5 seems to turn a lot slower rpm after you've adjusted the needle, try an 11x4.

When you test props, always see how the prop pulls the plane over the top of a loop. That's a good test of how it pulls.

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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 8:55 AM   
jaka


 

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From: Upplands Vasby, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		Hi!
I would choose a 11x5 or 11x6 for a OS LA.40 in a high winged trainer.APC, Graupner or RAM are the best props. Avoid MA!
3 inch grass, that's around 7,5cm which is very high. How about cutting it (the grass that is)

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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 3:51 PM   
WaffleMan



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Status: offline 		On my 46 la I ran a 10-7 prop and it wasn't very fast. But I think that was my engine was an over abused leaky peice of sh*t

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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 6:03 PM   
opjose



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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnBuckner

Yes get rid of it and always avoid plastic spinners.



Why?

I've never have had problems with them myself.

They key is learning to use them properly.

If the spinner is getting scored with your starter, you need a better starter cone ( and you MUST keep it clean ).

If the plastic spinner bends, breaks or shatters, you're overtightening or improperly installing it... Exception: So far I've only seen one or two very large 3-4" cheap plastic spinners shatter due to poor construction, but then I've seen an equal number of metal spinners do likewise.

Aluminum or metal spinners look very nice and work well, but plastics do well for what you are paying.





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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 6:36 PM   
Gray Beard


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: opjose


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnBuckner

Yes get rid of it and always avoid plastic spinners.



Why?

I've never have had problems with them myself.

They key is learning to use them properly.

If the spinner is getting scored with your starter, you need a better starter cone ( and you MUST keep it clean ).

If the plastic spinner bends, breaks or shatters, you're overtightening or improperly installing it... Exception: So far I've only seen one or two very large 3-4'' cheap plastic spinners shatter due to poor construction, but then I've seen an equal number of metal spinners do likewise.

Aluminum or metal spinners look very nice and work well, but plastics do well for what you are paying.

You answered the question yourself. Most new folks just starting out will over tighten and warp or crack the spinners back plate. You never know when it is cheap plastic. I have seen so many of them expload if I pit next to someone using one of the plastic spinners with the plastic back plate I move. The spinner nut is an outstanding item for trainers and they fit and look good on a number of other planes. I have a number of the solid spinner nuts and the Higgley weighted nuts from bygone days and I often loan them out or give them away.
By giving the OP the basics of props he should do as the rock said and buy a few for testing. Last trainer I had with the LA 40 on it would just, JUST get the plane off the ground, hard surface. The lack of power in the 40 LA was the reason I wanted to see OS discontinue it, the .46 LA is just so much better!! They do fly the plane though and most of the trainers I am given still have the old .40 on board. Not my first choice but I use them. Only because I gave away all my .46s!!





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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 6:59 PM   
countilaw



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Status: offline 		You can    over prop  an engine just as you can under prop one.     Some engines have a  power at higher RPMs,  these are usually engines that have some high run time on them.   The higher the RPM,  the better the torgue on these engines.      A  tight  (strong) engine can handle the big bite prop and pul the plane.   There is no set rule for what prop to run with any particular engine.    It's trial and error.   There are just starting points.     Also important is the brand of prop.  One of the most popular props is the   APC.   Personally I like wooden props followed by Master Airscrew.     Wood props act differently than plastic or composite props.

When I was flying pattern,  I would carry several different diameter and pitch size props.     By the end of the day,   I had selected the prop that best worked with the engine/plane combination.     


And don't forget,    you can always throttle back to slow a plane down. 

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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 7:36 PM   
JohnBuckner



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quote:

ORIGINAL: opjose

Why?

I've never have had problems with them myself.





Why? Well first this was never about You. I was responding to a self taught parking lot flyer with his first glow plane, not You.

If you would have read my very next line you may have noticed I was narrowing my response to the 'New Flyer'!

If you would have read my post even further you may have realized I was recommending Spinners Nuts to the gentleman and NOT full aluminum (or plastic) spinners of any type.

Perhaps in a perfect world cheezy plastic spinners work well for you but in the real world of the newbie 'least in these here parts' of the world, They are constant trouble and even result in lost flying days for the fellows. A complete waste of time and money.

Oh and on the money thing What a nine buck spinner nut versus what five, six or seven bucks for a plastic? Not exactly a big deal. Don,t even know what a plastic costs or care anymore have not bought one in many years.

So my opinion and recommendation to Reelquick remains the same "Avoid all plastic spinners as a new flyer" and invest in a proper Spinner Nut.

John

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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 8:22 PM   
opjose



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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnBuckner

Why? Well first this was never about You. I was responding to a self taught parking lot flyer with his first glow plane, not You.



Whoa! Sorry if I hit a nerve there.

This is a beginner's forum after all and such declarations from the more revered posters are taken to heart.


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnBuckner

Perhaps in a perfect world cheezy plastic spinners work well for you but in the real world of the newbie 'least in these here parts' of the world, They are constant trouble and even result in lost flying days for the fellows. A complete waste of time and money.



"Cheezy"? Like anything else there are poorly made plastic spinners, as there are poorly made metal ones.

But branding them all this way is specious. They tend to work pretty well when properly employed.

They are "constant trouble" only when misused, e.g. overtightened or the backplate is bent back by improper prop clearance.

When properly installed the spinner should take no undue force, the latter is what causes these "constant troubles".

Better to teach a newbie to use them properly, lest they develop bad habits that will equally affect metal spinners.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnBuckner

Oh and on the money thing What a nine buck spinner nut versus what five, six or seven bucks for a plastic? Not exactly a big deal. Don,t even know what a plastic costs or care anymore have not bought one in many years.



Metal spinners end up costing upwards of $25.00 for the cheaper ones, once you factor in the custom mounting nuts, etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnBuckner

So my opinion and recommendation to Reelquick remains the same ''Avoid all plastic spinners as a new flyer'' and invest in a proper Spinner Nut.



I don't have anything against the spinner nut recommendation....

However I'd advise them to find someone who will teach them to use plastic spinners properly. Plastic ones are easier for newbies to cut to size, replace, etc. and what they learn applies to metal spinners as well.


One day we had an "expert" at our field who was advising that a flyer replace their scored and broken plastic spinner with a metal one.

I walked over, proceeded to show them how to tighten & install a new plastic spinner properly. I cleaned their silicon starter cone, and and showed them how to correctly use their electric starter ( no "bumping", starter in-line with crankshaft, etc. ). Last time I saw the guy he was still using plastic spinners and we were a bit amused by the advice he had been given.




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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 9:21 PM   
JohnBuckner



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Status: online 		You sir are the one using basic combat posting techniques posting endless quotes in an attempt to discredit and embarass anyone with an opinion that may not be to your liking.

I refuse to engage any further its a waste of time, I am sure the OP will make his own decisions.

Oh by the way aluminum spinner nuts cost 9 bucks not 25 and of course you are ignoring the fact that I posted a link with the exact nut and cost at Tower, good grief.


My opinion and recommendation stands That you will never shout down.

John




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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 11:03 PM   
jester_s1


 

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Status: offline 		Why does this have to get nasty? We're discussing what the best pointy thing is to put on the front of a toy plane, not the president's foreign policy!

FWIW, I've used plastic spinners for about 7 years now and have had a couple of the all plastic ones to break (one from overtightening when I was a noob, one from the prop slipping when hand starting, the other pulled the screws out from fatigue), but never have had trouble with the metal backplate ones with the plastic fronts. I've also used the spinner nuts on planes that I thought looked better with them and haven't managed to break one or lose one yet. The right answer really is to use what you want to because they all work. The nut is the easiest and the metal/plastic ones are the prettiest. An all aluminum one on a trainer is just a waste of money, IMO but would really look cool.

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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 11:10 PM   
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Status: offline 		+1 on spinner nuts for beginners. Plastic spinners often have to be cut to shape for prop clearance and I am not comfortable in a begginer cutting anything to shape, even though this particular beginner appears to have skills due to the rebuilding of a trainer.
It only takes one bad starter cone to spinner application to ruin a good plastic spinner. I say wait till a second plane after proper engine starting with a starter is learned and perfected and then get that pretty spinner, plastic or aluminum.


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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 11:30 PM   
airraptor


 

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Status: offline 		Any prop from a APC 10x5 to a APC 11x4 will be great on this plane and engine.
Any prop from a MA 10x6 to a MA 11x5 will be great on this plane and engine.

JAKA i know you always suggest the RAM props but i have never seen one of those in the US. here the APC are the best props then Bolly clubmans if you can find them. if the RAM's were more available over here more might use them but i dont even know where to buy them lol.

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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/9/2012 11:59 PM   
OliverJacob


 

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Status: offline 		The fact that I like about plastic spinners is that they absorb the shock when you have a hard landing.
So if they brake, they might have saved your engine, a bend crankshaft costs more then a new plastic spinner.
A prop nut will transfer the impact energy right to your crankshaft.

just me 2 cents, I think they saved me some money..


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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/10/2012 12:25 AM   
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Status: offline 		Though I understand your point I feel that if you land hard enough to break that plastic spinner you will likely break the firewall rather than bend the crankshaft. I have lawndarted a few 40 sized planes and don't think I have ever once bent a crankshaft on these little engines. Now on a larger 15 pound gas plane that would be different.


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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/10/2012 12:26 AM   
littlera


 

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Status: offline 		Just a matter of terms - airplanes have "spinners" and rockets have "nose cones." Most beginners will refer to the spinner as a nose cone, and of course that is OK. They learn soon that over the years the accepted term for airplanes is spinner. It is an odd thing really, as in many respects nose cone would seem to be a better term!

You can argue all day about "engine" vs. "motor" also. Most engineers will refer to any internal combustion device as an engine - that includes some expansion devices such as steam engines. Motor is a term usually reserved for electric motors and not too many other devices, but of course some. I believe rubber powered airplanes have "rubber motors." An air motor would be another example. NASCAR guys refer to their engines as motors, though, so go figure.

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RE: Metal spinners...Nose cones ? - 7/10/2012 2:48 AM  1 votes
reelquick


 

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Status: offline 		I seem to cause more trouble on this site asking questions...
Just wished I lived next door to one of you guys.
I Can hover a .50 Helo and my bud`s say, what the problem with the plane ?????
A lot more Balsa to PU !
I have a TON of MASCREW 10 x 6 in stock, the OS owners manual calls for a 11.5 .
Got the new spinner , nose prop starter, pointy thing on the end of the plane,lock nut holder downer. prop keeper on er, How you start her thing??? In the mail on its way and we can move on to idle and full stick on the ground from there.

I do a lot of reloading and long range shooting.........
It makes me happy to see you guy`s this intense about helping a new guy on the way I do, when it`s his first day behind a trigger.
I can tell you guys care, And i`ll tell you what happens goo or bad.
Just like my fishing reports.
Thank You all again and chime in as often as you like.
I made a promise too my self in honor of my deceased father that was an aviation mechanic for 35 years that i would fly.
I have flown the real ones, but to go on my own and build it,then fly it would mean a lot to him.
Thanks guy`s, I know you all mean good.

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