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SAITO FG-30 4-stroke gas engine ignition - 7/9/2012 3:27 PM   
charlvnk


 

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From: Pretoria, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline 		I gave up trying to get my Saito FG-30 engine to run reliably without stuttering and the occasional dead stick, because nothing I tried ever seemed to improve things.

One of the things that I at least managed to get rid of was the excessive air in the fuel line caused by vibration when the tank level reached about 50% - I installed a RotoFlow tank.  Unfortunately this did not improve the stuttering and uneven running.

Today I got the engine to run 100% smooth without missing a single beat right through the RPM range, and acceleration / throttle response is excellent.  I made a modification to run it with a spare ignition and hall sensor pickup which came from a broken-in-two OS 33gx two-stroke 33cc gas engine.

Just so everyone here knows - Saito sold me a inferior piece of junk with this engine - the included ignition module.  The first problem, which is very easy to spot, is that the spark has much less energy than that generated by a RCEXL, Evolution, or OS ingnition module.  I know because I compared them side by side.

The second problem I found hard to believe and actually very disturbing, so I did the test at least three times and in different ways to confirm the results. The Saito ignition DOES NOT adjust the spark timing AT ALL (no spark advance) - it just fires the plug a few degrees before TDC no matter what the RPM (from idle to 9,000 RPM).  The easiest way to see this was by hooking up a dual-trace digital oscilloscope to the inductive pickup (it's not a Hall sensor they are using), and around the spark plug lead where you can pich up the current pulse when the plug is fired.

I have never seen a gasoline model airplane engine that doesn't do spark timing advance - this is one of the most basic requirements for a spark ignition system and the principle dates back to the very first gas engines used in cars where you had to advance the timing manually.  So why did they not bother with it - who knows ?

Please note that this is not just a possible dud ignition module - I have two of these engines bought a couple of months apart from different hobby shops and they both do the same thing.  If you just read on the forums how much trouble people are having with this engine ...
The ignition mod was not my idea - I read about other people doing it with RCEXL ignition modules, with great success.  I just haven't seen anyone highlighting the timing problem before - in fact, mos guys believe this is a spark advance ignition unit !

I can't believe they are still selling this engine with such a poorly designed ignition module.  Any respectable company would have issued a recall and replaced the unit at no cost, but NOOOO, not the high & mighty Horizon Hobby.  They always have a slich answer / excuse for everything that goes wrong, and the poor customer is always the fool who doesn't know what he's doing ...

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RE: SAITO FG-30 4-stroke gas engine ignition - 7/9/2012 3:56 PM  1 votes
pe reivers



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From: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		The Saito 30 has the ignition timing wrong. It is a known fact, but probably corrected in newer production engines. When adjusted right to spark at 28° BTDC, the engine runs tops. A club member had the same engine.


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RE: SAITO FG-30 4-stroke gas engine ignition - 1/11/2013 7:22 AM  1 votes
affas



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Last Login: 6/18/2013
From: Lier, NORWAY
Status: offline 		The original carb and ignition are crap. Alot of trouble for me and a wrecked plane :censored:

I converted both parts from www.ch-ignitions.com with great results.
Starts easy, excellent throttleresponse and I have not had a single hickup since I got it back from Adrian!




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RE: SAITO FG-30 4-stroke gas engine ignition - 1/11/2013 11:07 AM  1 votes
BadAzzMaxx


 

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Status: offline 		The RCexl is easy to install if you use the universal timing adapter.

Milton

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RE: SAITO FG-30 4-stroke gas engine ignition - 1/11/2013 3:10 PM   
earlwb


 

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I think it is most unfortunate if someone has to upgrade a gas Saito engine to use the CH Ignition along with a new gas carb too. That is like adding $160.00 to the overall cost for the engine which is already quite expensive. I think it would be better to just convert a glow engine over to gas ignition instead.


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RE: SAITO FG-30 4-stroke gas engine ignition - 1/11/2013 3:32 PM   
w8ye



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quote:

ORIGINAL: affas

The original carb and ignition are crap. Alot of trouble for me and a wrecked plane :censored:

I converted both parts from www.ch-ignitions.com with great results.
Starts easy, excellent throttleresponse and I have not had a single hickup since I got it back from Adrian!




I didn't hear a single Saito SG HICCUP ?



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RE: SAITO FG-30 4-stroke gas engine ignition - 1/11/2013 4:02 PM   
w8ye



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quote:

ORIGINAL: earlwb

I think it is most unfortunate if someone has to upgrade a gas Saito engine to use the CH Ignition along with a new gas carb too. That is like adding $160.00 to the overall cost for the engine which is already quite expensive. I think it would be better to just convert a glow engine over to gas ignition instead.



What's so unfortunate is that Saito could have had the most overwhelming model engine market of all time by using a more universal ignition system and carburetor.

Instead, they choose to use proprietary or more or less captive and exclusive components only available from Saito and then charge four prices for the complete components and and not offer any spare parts.  They may have Walbro carburetors but you can not get any parts for the carburetor models they use or even any documentation from any of the normal parts sources except Saito. And even then, Saito doesn't have carburetor or ignition parts - just the entire component at inflated prices. Note that even the smaller Saito gas engines with the Saito (no regulator) carburetor (It was designed by a former Walbro engineer) - what parts you can get are very expensive.

The newest versions may even have RCEXL ignitions but they won't admit it or even offer any individual parts for the ignition.

Saito still wants to use the odd ball Saito spark plug in the smaller gas engines with the 1/4-32  spark plug. This requires a special cap. The Saito 1/4-32 spark plug has the ceramic breakdown that results in low reliability.

Meanwhile, the model airplane world has gone on around Saito and Saito has lost significant market share whereas it had the potential for significant market gain.

Saito left themselves wide open for loss of market share and people changing the Saito parts that do not work well.

Most people found out the hard way that the engine was a trouble magnet until it was modified.

I have three SG versions and two glow engines that were changed over to gas.

A good running Saito gas engine certainly is a beauty - what sound they have.





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Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
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RE: SAITO FG-30 4-stroke gas engine ignition - 1/12/2013 2:53 AM   
SrTelemaster150



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From: Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BadAzzMaxx

The RCexl is easy to install if you use the universal timing adapter.

Milton


I would never opt for the RCXEL system that requires me to drill & tap my crankcase when the C&H systems do not require any such nonsense.

RCEXEL copied the old C&H synchrospark module from the 1990s to get their cheap Chinese knock-off. They didn't want to take the time to develope engine specific hall sensor/magnet mounting. That leaves the consumer to drill & tap the engijne case for an average savings of $15 over a properly engineered system.

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RE: SAITO FG-30 4-stroke gas engine ignition - 1/12/2013 3:38 AM  1 votes
BadAzzMaxx


 

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Status: offline 		You do not have to drill and tap new holes with the RCexl ignition.

The picture I posted is using the existing holes on the engine.

RCexl makes a nice ignition but is up to the dealer to make them work with engines other engines like DA/3W/ZDZ and so forth.

We have ignitions that will work with most all RC gas engines without having to drill and tap new holes.

Saito is now using RCexl ignitions on there engines as well as a few other name brand engines.

Milton

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RE: SAITO FG-30 4-stroke gas engine ignition - 1/12/2013 3:44 AM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		I have used Zip Ties in the past to hold the timing sensor onto the engine. It depends on the engine though. Once you get the timing where you want, you can use glue and Zip ties or you can drill and tap for a couple of screws. I had used some silicon adhesive and zip ties on one engine, and flew it for a long time until it had a catastrophic crash one day. But the timing sensor stayed put in any case.

Of course those CH ignition timing lock rings are a great  idea. I like it.  But if the engine already has holes for screws that can be used to hold a timing sensor, it is not a problem resuing the holes. The hardest thing you might have to do is relocate the magnet.





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RE: SAITO FG-30 4-stroke gas engine ignition - 1/12/2013 4:29 AM   
BadAzzMaxx


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: earlwb


The hardest thing you might have to do is relocate the magnet.



You do not have to relocate the magnet, Just mount the sensor bracket and you are ready to go.

Milton


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RE: SAITO FG-30 4-stroke gas engine ignition - 1/12/2013 5:11 AM   
w8ye



Posts: 36486
Score: 318
Joined: 12/11/2001
Last Login: 6/19/2013
From: Shelby, OH, USA
Status: offline 		I have Saito engines running the old original CH ignition, the new type CH Ignition, and RCEXL ignition. One runs about as good as the other.


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Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
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