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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 11/27/2012 3:41 AM   
BarryReade


 

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Status: offline 		You can run the .46 now it just wouldn't be a true 424 class.  Is you air that much thinner that you are running below 120 mph?

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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 11/27/2012 6:17 AM   
Bozarth


 

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Status: online 		The best we've seen is 110mph just as the plane approached pylon #2 with a radar gun. That is on the course during a race - not buzzing around for speed runs. The best we've seen in 428 was 152mph (same thing - during a race, approaching pylon #2). We are at 6600'.

Kurt

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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 11/27/2012 3:44 PM   
still4given



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Status: offline 		Truth is, the 46 is only marginally faster than the 40. It wouldn't be the end of the world if we eventually have to change to a 46. There are more brands making 46 engines and most folks have a a few just gathering dust. I know I do. The only down side would be that those of us who have a few TT Pro 40's may have to invest is some extra 46 engines. I doubt very seriously that the slight increase in speed would change anything. I say whatever it takes we need to keep Club 40 and Club 25 alive. There are two many fields where a three pole course can't work. I have never been to a field where a 400' two pole course won't.

Blessings, Terry

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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/1/2012 5:36 PM   
cjbotox



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Status: offline 		I now own 2 NIB Skyraiders and a seemingly perfect TT pro 40. Should have one ready to go by Wednesday to practice, practice, practice. Question: according to Fla Club 40 rules, there was a recommendation to 'beef up' landing gear blocks. LHS dealer said no one has complained about this in long time so is it necessary or not?

Also contacted a local club pres by email asking about getting a number, hasn't replied yet. Help appreciated.

John


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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/1/2012 8:13 PM   
BarryReade


 

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Status: offline 		I haven't busted out the fuselage from a landing in years and I have a very simple fix.  I use this CA and saturate the landing gear blocks and let them dry.  I go over the whole fuse with CA before I assemble it.  I cut away the covering and even saturate the gear holes.  I then re-drill the holes and radius the wood where the gear butts up at a 90* tight radius.  Haven't had a problem in the last three years  of racing that I have gone to.  It will not protect you from some one running through your plane on the course or prevent an aileron from pulling off on a dive if you don't drill the hinges and add some extra CA.  I think the new ones come with metal hinges and they are not a problem.

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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/1/2012 10:15 PM   
squidman



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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjbotox

I now own 2 NIB Skyraiders and a seemingly perfect TT pro 40. Should have one ready to go by Wednesday to practice, practice, practice. Question: according to Fla Club 40 rules, there was a recommendation to 'beef up' landing gear blocks. LHS dealer said no one has complained about this in long time so is it necessary or not?

Also contacted a local club pres by email asking about getting a number, hasn't replied yet. Help appreciated.

John




"If" you land soft, there is no need to beef up the landing gear blocks. That said, "If" my Aunt had balls she would be my Uncle.

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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/2/2012 12:57 PM   
ACKopter


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjbotox

I now own 2 NIB Skyraiders and a seemingly perfect TT pro 40. Should have one ready to go by Wednesday to practice, practice, practice. Question: according to Fla Club 40 rules, there was a recommendation to 'beef up' landing gear blocks. LHS dealer said no one has complained about this in long time so is it necessary or not?

Also contacted a local club pres by email asking about getting a number, hasn't replied yet. Help appreciated.

John



Hi John, I havent seen many problems with the LG other than the obvious hard landing issue. Like Barry, I go over most structural joints in both the gear and firewall area but use thinned epoxy vs CA glue. Have not had an issue yet.

As for a race number, you'll need to speak with Matt Wayne. I have his contact info and I'll send it over via PM in a few minutes. Let me know if you need any further assistance,
Chris

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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/2/2012 3:32 PM   
cjbotox



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Status: offline 		Thanks gents for the info. I noticed that ACKOPTER began asking similar questions on numerous threads about a year ago. I hope someone was as helpful as you have been. I have emailed the person you directed me to, sure was a lot more help than local club pres who said 'go to www.floridaclub40rules. If the number select is in there, someone please point it out to me. But as I said, AC has already given me concise info.

I would like to mention that after questioning LHS owner about planes, I opened NIB engine and inspected it. The engine head clearance or space is just like 'earlier' version but the carb has offset needle like 46 (I like that). When I asked owner if he heard of discrepencies both he and his assistant answered a simultaneous 'never'... comedians. I remember a remark made years ago in RCM that the (unmodified) 40's were just as powerful as a 60. Well that was then and today there's no comparison. And on this subject, I compared my old OS 46 FX next to my new TT. The OS looks to be a little meatier but I have not weighed them. Don't want to be disapointed - should they be same or 46 lighter.

For kicks and giggles I would like to see an all stock 46 race against the TT 40 in a flat line. Same plane, fuel etc. Would be interesting, especially if the 40 won!

John


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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/2/2012 8:43 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjbotox

...When I asked owner if he heard of discrepencies both he and his assistant answered a simultaneous 'never'... comedians. ...


John,

Are you saying your LHS should have know discrepancies have been reported on Thundertiger .40 Pro engines? If I walked into my LHS, they would have no idea.

But I'm sure you are right: It is a big conspiracy. We must get to the bottom of this so we can learn who the Lance Armstrongs of the RC racing world are.

Kurt


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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/3/2012 4:10 AM   
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Status: offline 		John, The paperwork with my TT Pro 40 says that a 40 weighs 16.03 oz. and the 46 weighs 16.05 oz.
That's for the latest version with the "swept back" needle valve. I weighed one of my engines which had a
Higley aluminum safety nut, and I got 16.7 oz. I don't have a 46, but I would think that the 46 would be lighter, because it has a thinner sleeve. The 46 has a slightely longer stroke, so the sleeve is a little taller, but I would think that the larger bore would reduce the weight of the sleeve. Does anyone have a 46, and a 40 that they can weigh side by side? Greg

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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/3/2012 12:54 PM   
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Status: offline 		Just an FYI for you Florida Club 40 guys...

I have a few Skyraider Kits left in stock if anyone needs one. We have solid red, orange & yellow remaining. See our classified ad if you need one.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemID=885760


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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/3/2012 1:01 PM   
Giant_Scale_Gasser


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjbotox

For kicks and giggles I would like to see an all stock 46 race against the TT 40 in a flat line. Same plane, fuel etc. Would be interesting, especially if the 40 won!

John



I believe I already answered this in a previous post. I flew against a TT .46 powered Skyraider II on purpose to see the differences and where, if anyplace, I could keep or gain an advantage. With similalry skilled pilots, I could not outrun the .46 powered plane with my bone stock TT .40. I could fly tighter lines being a slightly better pilot, but on an even flat out drag race from turn to turn... the .46 walked the dog. Both planes were running spec fuel, both weighed within an ounce of each other and both used stock, untouched 10x6 APC props.

I see and hear a distinct difference in the TT.40 versus the TT.46. The .46 does not drop RPM in the turns nearly as noticably as the .40. And straight line pull in side by side drag race attempts is very obvious. Doesn't seem like .06 cu in is very much to be concerned about, but it certainly makes a difference in the air, especially on a windy day.





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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/3/2012 4:14 PM   
skooterII


 

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Status: offline 		See my experience with the 40 vs 46 is opposite. A couple of months ago at our last race, i raced my TT40 agains OS 46's. Mt TT is bone stock except for a head shim change from .015 to .005. The rules here we allow you to remove the baffle, so all the 46's i raced against had no baffle's. Engines were all ran on 15%, 9.5x6 apc prop. My TT40 did not get beat that day. The racers at the field were surprised to see a 40 keep up. Even between the poles the TT40 was not getting out ran, it was holding its own. During the last race it was a back and forth battle for first between me and another racer. And what i noticed was we would have the same back and forth battle when i ran my 46. So i don't see a huge advantage if any to racing a 46 over a 40 on a SRMII. Once again this is MY experience with the 40 vs 46.

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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/3/2012 4:48 PM   
cjbotox



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Status: offline 		OK I decided to weigh TT and OS without mufflers. The TT Pro 40 weighs 13.2 oz, and the OS 46 FX weighs 13.7 oz. This is omly a negligable difference unless stock mufflers are included, but I can't find the OS stock muffler. Anyways, I'm tempted to put the OS on my other Skyraider someday and get someone to race against me at the club.

I believe SKOOTERII's results because when the outbreak of 46 engines hit the market they touted higher RPMs and more power. Well that seems and looks logical but our club pres was outrunning ALL stock 46s with his LA 40. He knows his engines as he was racing full scale boats years ago in Miami. He made no secret as to how he was able to out perform the others, and continues to push his idea on anyone out here. He uses an undersized prop... a 6 X 8 prop. I don't want to try this and I can't believe his engine still runs to this day - we're all waiting for it to blow and you should hear it scream. I think he uses 15% Omega.

John


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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/3/2012 5:42 PM   
Lownverted



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Status: offline 		A 6x8? Or an 8x6?

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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/3/2012 6:42 PM   
Giant_Scale_Gasser


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: skooterII

See my experience with the 40 vs 46 is opposite. A couple of months ago at our last race, i raced my TT40 agains OS 46's. Mt TT is bone stock except for a head shim change from .015 to .005. The rules here we allow you to remove the baffle, so all the 46's i raced against had no baffle's. Engines were all ran on 15%, 9.5x6 apc prop. My TT40 did not get beat that day. The racers at the field were surprised to see a 40 keep up. Even between the poles the TT40 was not getting out ran, it was holding its own. During the last race it was a back and forth battle for first between me and another racer. And what i noticed was we would have the same back and forth battle when i ran my 46. So i don't see a huge advantage if any to racing a 46 over a 40 on a SRMII. Once again this is MY experience with the 40 vs 46.



Funny you mention shims. Been there, done that. After 6 or 8 hours of bench testing shims for a total gain of only 300rpm, my TT .40s are back to the .015 stock shim and really run the best for me in that configuration on club designated Cool Power 15%. I actually saw better RPM gains testing plugs. (The TT .46 pulls almost 2000rpm more on the same configuration on my bench)

You said you ran a TT .40 against  OS .46s and saw no apprciable difference and I believe that 100% depending on which OS .46 you flew against. If it's the OS .46 LA, I would imagine that it would remain close if not see the TT .40 with an advantage. The TT Pro .46 versus the TT Pro .40 is no contest in identically prepared aircraft and my planes are identical down to the ounce. 

Whatever our series decides to run is fine with me. i have enough of the TT Pro .40s and I can order in the .46 if they change the rules. I am just hoping it is fair for everyone and the pilots make up the biggest difference.



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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/3/2012 7:35 PM   
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Status: offline 		I havent tried testing any plugs yet but I will. After swapping out the shim to .005 the next run on the engine I saw a gain of 600 rpm. It went from 16400 to 1700 flat on a 10x4 apc with stock plug and CP 15% and this was only the 3rd or 4th tank. Maybe I got lucky and got the pick of the litter, I don't know. But the OS engines i was battling with was a 46ax with a 46axII right on his but and another ax. All four planes were running 9.5x6 props. And I agree, Im fine with which ever displacement they choose to run. I have nothing against going bigger. Lets just keep the C-40 going.

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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/3/2012 11:05 PM   
Giant_Scale_Gasser


 

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I havent tried testing any plugs yet but I will. After swapping out the shim to .005 the next run on the engine I saw a gain of 600 rpm. It went from 16400 to 1700 flat on a 10x4 apc with stock plug and CP 15% and this was only the 3rd or 4th tank. Maybe I got lucky and got the pick of the litter, I don't know. But the OS engines i was battling with was a 46ax with a 46axII right on his but and another ax. All four planes were running 9.5x6 props. And I agree, Im fine with which ever displacement they choose to run. I have nothing against going bigger. Lets just keep the C-40 going.


If you can hang with, or beat the .46AX, you are doing something. Those engines are animals. I have had a .46AX on a sport plane and it pulled more like a .60. Also had the big 1.20AX on an ultimate and it was simply insane and tried it's best to pull the firewall out any chance it got.

Those RPMs you have are impressive. I have heard that if you are in the mid to high 15,000 range you'll be competitive. Sounds like you have a sweet mill there.

I tested .001 shims from .001 thru .010 and found no noticable (read; nothing more than 300) top end RPM gain, in fact the engine actually sounded strained, like it was over-compressed up until about .008 or so. Then it sounded free on top, although the RPM didn't indicate any large change, it was more of a pitch thing. Anything under .008 and she just didn't sound happy.





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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/4/2012 12:43 AM   
squidman



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ORIGINAL: skooterII

See my experience with the 40 vs 46 is opposite. A couple of months ago at our last race, i raced my TT40 agains OS 46's. Mt TT is bone stock except for a head shim change from .015 to .005. The rules here we allow you to remove the baffle, so all the 46's i raced against had no baffle's. Engines were all ran on 15%, 9.5x6 apc prop. My TT40 did not get beat that day. The racers at the field were surprised to see a 40 keep up. Even between the poles the TT40 was not getting out ran, it was holding its own. During the last race it was a back and forth battle for first between me and another racer. And what i noticed was we would have the same back and forth battle when i ran my 46. So i don't see a huge advantage if any to racing a 46 over a 40 on a SRMII. Once again this is MY experience with the 40 vs 46.



match a TT .40 against a TT.46. As with the .40 O.S., the TT.40 will blow its doors off. The TT's are a far more powerful motor for the type of racing we are doing than the O.S.s. IMO

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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/4/2012 1:07 PM   
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Status: offline 		6 X 8 - AND it was a modified Master Airscrewer! I remember seeing the difference in diameter but to be sure, I will be seeing him later this week and reaffirm this. He doesn't race anymore but I am sure he still has this setup.

OBW, this isn't legal, is it (a sawed off prop)?


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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/4/2012 5:01 PM   
BarryReade


 

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Status: offline 		RCPRO rules says you must run a stock commercially available prop that is sanded on one side only to balance it.  Now local venues can change that and some venues have a spec prop that is handed to you at the race that you must run.

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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/4/2012 10:08 PM   
JohnMcGowan


 

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Status: offline 		I had an email notification late last week on a new in the box TT pro 40 that was on fleabay.
I clicked on the link and it had a "buy it now"  price of $60.00 with free shipping.  I about dislocated my wrist trying to hit the "buy it now"  button!        It was from a pawn shop in Texas that had them and other engines for sale.
I bought it before someone else saw it first I reckon.  It is the older style engine with the straight hi speed needle.  I guess we cant have too many spare engines can we? hahaha

As far as the guy with the reported 6x8 prop on his engine, Im not saying anything negative about him, but just how in the world would he have any thrust with that small a diameter prop? Man that thing must be turning at least 25 grand with that small a prop on there if thats the case .  His prop would most likely not be legal at any other field  due to him running a altered/shortened  prop.
Just my .02 cents worth.
John

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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/4/2012 10:51 PM   
cbk07


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnMcGowan

I had an email notification late last week on a new in the box TT pro 40 that was on fleabay.
I clicked on the link and it had a ''buy it now''  price of $60.00 with free shipping.  I about dislocated my wrist trying to hit the ''buy it now''  button!        It was from a pawn shop in Texas that had them and other engines for sale.
I bought it before someone else saw it first I reckon.  It is the older style engine with the straight hi speed needle.  I guess we cant have too many spare engines can we? hahaha



The same guy listed another one the day before.....I did the same thing. One of my racing buddies here told me he was going to hit buy it now and it disappeared. Sounds like he got beaten out again!! Mine showed up yesterday as described. Like you said, can never have enough......man I'll be bummed if they ever change 424 to the .46

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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/4/2012 11:24 PM   
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Status: offline 		Yep, I saw the one from the day before mine too that you are talking about , I clicked on the link but she was already gone! Somebody had scooped her up quick like!!  Was that you CBK ? Does your engine look as it was described and are you happy?

   Hummm,...cbk.....do you sell bearings on ebay?  Is this Brent or maybe Brant?  I cant recall the sellers first name. If so, you are where I get my TTpro 40 bearings from 
John

< Message edited by JohnMcGowan -- 12/5/2012 3:09 AM >

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RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s? - 12/5/2012 2:58 AM   
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Status: offline 		Definitely happy....exactly as pictured and described. Looked like it had never been touched and from the original batch with the straight needle and un-machined fins. Had I known he had two, I would have purchased the second one for my friend up here

I am not the bearing guy though. I generally use a Boca rear and O.S. in the front for no other reason than habit

Craig

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