RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 10/23/2012 9:51 PM

splinterz25

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won't be long now

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/7/2013 8:28 PM

splinterz25

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Alright I'm back

I started this project Jun. 17 2011 so I thought I would really push on it this year!

I've started by converting my daughters old room into a space just for the assembly of the P-38 M, The next thing I need to figure out is the internal linkage for the rudders so I will be permanently mounting the vertical fins first. I have propped up the plane w/ some foam chunks these may change as I progress but I have made a new start. This should help me keep things in better order because as many of you know this is not my only build I have going, so now the Mossie will stay in the other room for now and I'll be able to leave the 38 together all of the time. Here's a few shots of the new setup, I have decided to go w/ 4-40 ball links on the servo end and Z bends on the push rods for the rudders.

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/8/2013 2:48 AM

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Hey!

Nice to see ya back Bruce. I was wondering where you were? Lol

Hope you had a great holidays!

Casey

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/8/2013 4:00 AM

splinterz25

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Thanks Casey I had my daughter stay here w/ me Nov and Dec and I met a lady friend so I got side tracked for the holidays!

I hope you had a great holiday also! I thought I saw on another post that you were moving back to Hawaii lucky you I was there in the mid 80's and didn't want to come back.

So yes I'm back on it setting the 38 up in her old bed room and the mossie will get set up out in the other room later but I'm going to focus on the 38 for now, starting w/ the internal linkage for the rudders.

Bruce

quote:

ORIGINAL: glazier808

Hey!

Nice to see ya back Bruce. I was wondering where you were? Lol

Hope you had a great holidays!

Casey

< Message edited by splinterz25 -- 1/8/2013 4:46 AM >

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/8/2013 3:58 PM

splinterz25

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Alright I was up be for the sun this morning and I gathered all the parts that I had made about two years ago and started to put the rudder together. It looks like I'll end up w/ about 1" of through in each direction w/ very little movement from the servo arm. I rethought using a 4-40 ball link and push rod because it's only about 12" long and I'll run it through a small piece of brass tubing at the front of the vertical fin. For those of you just joining this build I had covered this part some time ago page 4 report # 49 at the beginning of the build. Nothing has been glued yet just checking everything over really good first making sure I haven't for gotten anything after all this time off this part of the build, it's better to take some more time now than having to go backwards.

it feels really good to be back on this project w/ fresh ideas and good a attitude, here's what I have so far.

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/8/2013 3:59 PM

splinterz25

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and a few more pics.

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/8/2013 8:27 PM

splinterz25

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I have had some input from a few of my followers telling me that there may be a disadvantage to the way I'm trying to move the rudders this has been a concern of mine from the start.

So it's plan two I will make some new parts this time out of fiberglass because I was worried about the poly gluing well anyway. They will have more of a pronounced horn but I'll try and keep it small and may cover it w/ a shroud

which is not scale.
So off to gather some glass cloth and resin to make these boys I'll take photos to show you how I do this.

Bruce

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/8/2013 8:49 PM

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I to have been concerned about your rudder connection, I talk to a couple of my engineers (also RC plane people) and they say you need to go to a screw drive. The thought is that under flight your rudder will flutter and cause a crash. Even with a screw drive I’m worried about the shortness of your rudder lever, ¼ “ ? That is a lot of force to push/pull with a ¼ “ fulcrum.

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/8/2013 8:59 PM

splinterz25

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joyfull Aircraft

I to have been concerned about your rudder connection, I talk to a couple of my engineers (also RC plane people) and they say you need to go to a screw drive. The thought is that under flight your rudder will flutter and cause a crash. Even with a screw drive I’m worried about the shortness of your rudder lever, ¼ “ ? That is a lot of force to push/pull with a ¼ “ fulcrum.

Read my last post I'm making new horns sorry I don't remember your name I talk to so many people on these sites.

Thanks for the heads up

Bruce

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/8/2013 9:09 PM

Joyfull Aircraft

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Sorry , I should of signed my comments. The name is Steven Joy, I'm an electrical engineer here at Hill AFB, and getting back into flying RC. I've been following your build religiously as I have plans to build a Royal P-38 this winter.

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/8/2013 9:52 PM

splinterz25

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joyfull Aircraft

Sorry , I should of signed my comments. The name is Steven Joy, I'm an electrical engineer here at Hill AFB, and getting back into flying RC. I've been following your build religiously as I have plans to build a Royal P-38 this winter.

Now I remember Steven we have spoken in PM's the old noodle isn't what it use to be

Well I don't think it's going to get more like winter than it already is LOL but I hope you've have been
able to get some ideas from this thread. And I'm looking forward to you posting your build just let me
know where and when yo post it.

I've just finished laying up the fiber glass cloth and resin I'll post some photos when I split the two
sheets of glass apart and lay out the new horns. Another one of my followers gave me a great sugestion
and a way to hide the horn, more yet to come.

Bruce

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/9/2013 5:25 AM

splinterz25

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Be for I go w/ new horns another guy on another site has given me an Idea.
Keep my setup but hook it to a leaver w/ an ofset piviot point the long side will
hook to the servo w/ a very short push rod the short part that wont travel very far will get hooked to the
regular push rod going to the rudder, this way the servo gets it's full travel and force
witch will be applied to the rudders push rod.

It sounds good in theroy if I have enough room to do this I will give it a try.

Another guy said make a little bit bigger horn and conseal it in the outer part of the stab.

Any thoughts on this?here's a quick sectch of what I'm talking about.

Bruce

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/9/2013 2:37 PM

Joyfull Aircraft

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I think you are working the wrong end. The distance between the pivot point of the rudder bellcrank and the pushrod connection needs to be greater.

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/9/2013 5:33 PM

splinterz25

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Steven... That has been the concern all along what the lever does is give the push rod greater force.
The problem is that there is very little space to install a lever, my golal was to keep all push rods internal
but sometimes you have to do other things.
to KISS keep it simple stupid I'm looking at making new horns w/ an oblong lobe this will stick out past the boom
but what I'm now looking at is hiding that lobe inside the STAB on the out side if I can there's very little space to do much of anything. It's not cut out yet but here's the new horn.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joyfull Aircraft

I think you are working the wrong end. The distance between the pivot point of the rudder bellcrank and the pushrod connection needs to be greater.

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/9/2013 5:48 PM

Joyfull Aircraft

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I like it, it might just give you enough seperation between the pivot point and the pushrod connection.
Steve......

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/9/2013 8:04 PM

splinterz25

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Alright I'm trying to get something going here but it's taking a while because I still
don't have it set up totally w/ all mu stuff in the new room. What I'm doing now is fitting the rudders on and I have to sand the end of the boom to do this correctly first and I have to fill in the ribs to give it added structure, it's slow going but it's going

Bruce

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/10/2013 3:56 AM

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I have been following for a while because I hope to build one like this from your ideas.

Okay I don’t know what you have for clearance in the tail boom under the vertical stabilizers but here is an idea.

Run a rod from the servo in the tail boom to a 90 degree pivot as shown in my marks. Attached to the hinge pin are two pins (top and bottom) as shown. The clevis to operate the rudder swings horizontally inside the tail boom housing under the vertical stabilizer. If you run a rod through the horizontal stabilizer you could connect both rudders.

Hope I am making myself clear and that it is of some help.

jimm

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/10/2013 4:55 AM

splinterz25

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jimm Thanks for the idea that would probably have worked if I had done it from the start, The's not much room
to play w/ back there. Good luck w/ your p-38.
I worked on the new tiller/ horn this evening ....I cut the sheet in to thirds saved one piece and lam the other two together w/ an 1/2" overlap and a piece of 2oz cloth in between and on the top and bottom and clamped in between two sheets of glass w/ wax on them, cleaned them up drew them out and cut out two new horns here's where I'm at now.

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/10/2013 7:06 AM

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Hello Bruce,
Interesting build. Something my friends and I were thinking of doing 30 years ago. To enlarge some of the Guillows kits.

If you intend to build an historically accurate P-38, then you need to know a couple things about the tail feathers. ( if not, then I apologize for the interuption )

If you want to compete with this P-38, then I understand the urge to try to conceal the pushrods. However, if accuracy and competition are not important, then why not simply
place standard pushrods ( on the inside of the tail booms ) on it. You'll get the throw-amount you are looking for and practically no worries of rudder fludder.

For a most scale appearance, the rudder counter-balances should stick out into the airflow as the rudder is deflected.

I'm no expert builder, just like to see things done as accurately as possible

...also wondering about the seemingly lack of dihedral in the wing?

I do like all the detail in the nose section. Should be a real show stopper

Regards,
Ken.

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/10/2013 4:36 PM

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Thanks Ken..I think I have the push rods figured out now and I'm in the process of rehinging the rudders now.
And Ken there's not much of a dihedral on the 38's wing but it's there.
I'll post some photos when I get something to show.

Bruce

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcphotog

Hello Bruce,
Interesting build. Something my friends and I were thinking of doing 30 years ago. To enlarge some of the Guillows kits.

If you intend to build an historically accurate P-38, then you need to know a couple things about the tail feathers. ( if not, then I apologize for the interuption )

If you want to compete with this P-38, then I understand the urge to try to conceal the pushrods. However, if accuracy and competition are not important, then why not simply
place standard pushrods ( on the inside of the tail booms ) on it. You'll get the throw-amount you are looking for and practically no worries of rudder fludder.

For a most scale appearance, the rudder counter-balances should stick out into the airflow as the rudder is deflected.

I'm no expert builder, just like to see things done as accurately as possible
...also wondering about the seemingly lack of dihedral in the wing?

I do like all the detail in the nose section. Should be a real show stopper

Regards,
Ken.

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/10/2013 11:35 PM

splinterz25

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I'm looking at the prospect of hinging the rudders w/ steal pins through the counter balances
as close to the LE of the rudder as I can here are photos of the tiller/ horns, I will need to put in
a new brass threaded insert where the new hing line will be and drill some long holes and line the top & bottoms w/ brass tubes and through the the counter balance I 'll put nylon tube for the wear.

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/11/2013 10:54 PM

splinterz25

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After looking at my options for the hinging I'm really thinking I will go w/ 4 of the Robart hing points and move the tiller all the way on to the rudder, this way you will only see the tab and part of the push rod on the under side on the in side of the boom.
Not what I set out to do but most practical sometimes we have to settle for the functional and not scale but I think it will be mostly hidden.

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/15/2013 2:56 PM

splinterz25

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Well I rehinged one of the rudders and I'm going to take it all the way through getting it ready to glue making sure this is really going to work and to see just how to go about it all, here's some photos of the rehinging.

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/15/2013 8:32 PM

splinterz25

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Well I kept going today and bent a push rod, solder some clevis and dry fit the fin it looks like most of the tiller/ horn will be concealed once the rest of the boom skin is added. I don't think I want to cut into my stab/ elv. to try and hide the small amount of horn you will see and you will never see it when it's flying.

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RE: SCRATCH BUILT P-38M NIGHT LIGHTNING - 1/15/2013 9:03 PM

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Hello

Nice build you have here!

I intend to build Ziroli's version of the bird one day and would love to have the proper size 50 cal. in the nose where did you get yours?

The mustang I have on the bench needs a set also. are yours 1/4 scale? something close will do so I can scale from them. any help is appreciated.

DONNY

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