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P-80se start issue - 8/5/2012 1:17 AM   
Kelly Rohrbach


 

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From: KALISPELL, MT, USA
Status: offline 		Hey Guys
Being its the weekend and not able to contact Jetcat until Monday I thought I would ask and see if others have ran into this issue.
Put in two great flights this morning and after a quick charge, went to start for flight number three. Moved the throttle trim, move the throttle stick-nothing. The lights on the IO board cycle in order like they always have but I noticed there are no audible beep sounds like you normally get. Even when you first turn on the receiver you normally get a couple quick beeps, not getting that either. This is about the 20th flight on this engine and has been flawless so far and I'm sure its just some little gremlin. I did try another ECU that I have for my second engine and its the same, no change. Also did the reprogram and again no change.
Batteries are fully charged, no issue there. I have not changed anything and can't see anything disconnected. Is there possibly something under the purple engine cover I should check or are those components sealed anyway.
Any Ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance


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RE: P-80se start issue - 8/5/2012 1:36 AM   
Thud_Driver



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Status: online 		The beeps are generated by pulsing the starter motor, same as on the brushless motors for foamies.  No beeps may be from a bad data cable or bad board under the cowling.

Do you have a good temperature reading on the GSU?  If not, probable indication of a bad data cable.

On the GSU, does holding the Ignition button down cause the engine to spin up and show rpm on the GSU?

First thought is to jumper in a different data cable from ECU to engine and see if that does it.  While less likely, you could also try a different power cable to the engine.

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RE: P-80se start issue - 8/5/2012 2:36 AM   
Kelly Rohrbach


 

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Status: offline 		Thank you TD
I will give those a look. since I basically have a complete second engine I figure I will just start at one end and move to the other end by replacing with a new part to see if that isolates it. I have already tried the other ECU so I think I can rule out a blown ECU.
Again thanks for the help, I will post my findings!!!
Thanks Guys

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RE: P-80se start issue - 8/5/2012 8:04 AM   
kimhey


 

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Status: offline 		If you have kerostart, the keroplug might be worn out.



Kim

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RE: P-80se start issue - 8/5/2012 8:47 AM   
Ian Burridge


 

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Status: offline 		Kelly,
Mine will sometimes stick and just needs a flick to spin over. As mine is in a Viper I have a carbon rod i put up the tailpipe to flick. Not sure if it is sticky bearings or the o ring/clutch but has done it from new.
Ian.

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RE: P-80se start issue - 8/5/2012 10:16 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kimhey

If you have kerostart, the keroplug might be worn out.



Kim

This will cause this on a propane start as well if plug is burnt out or disconected.......... no beeps

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RE: P-80se start issue - 8/5/2012 10:44 AM   
kimhey


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aquaskiman

quote:

ORIGINAL: kimhey

If you have kerostart, the keroplug might be worn out.



Kim

This will cause this on a propane start as well if plug is burnt out or disconected.......... no beeps


Makes sense. What puzzled me when my keroplugg stopped working, was no error message on the hand-held terminal display. Took me some time to understand what was wrong


Kim

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RE: P-80se start issue - 8/5/2012 7:50 PM   
Kelly Rohrbach


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks guys for the input.
After testing with all new cables and a different ECU, no change. I set another P80se next to the one mounted on the model and hooked it up using the original cables and that one works!!
So that tells me that something is wrong in the original engine, what that is I don't know. I know its not the glow plug because I changed that over to the new engine and it works fine.
I guess it could be the start motor or maybe the EGT or the circuit board under the cowl. I did remove the cowl and don't see any glaring issue thou.
Again, the normal beeps you hear are before anything starts to turn or move in anyway so I don't know if the start motor could be it. As those who own a Jetcat know when you first turn on the plane you get a couple of quick beeps. I'm not getting that sound either. All I know at this point is the either ECU works just fine on the other engine and the original cables also work fine.

This is not a kero start.

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RE: P-80se start issue - 8/5/2012 8:06 PM   
Vincent



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Status: offline 		Most likely the starter motor is ng. Have bob send you one they are easy the change out.
Vin...

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RE: P-80se start issue - 8/5/2012 8:30 PM   
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Status: offline 		Good call Vincent. Kelly, are you able to test the starter motor from the GSU and get it to spin up? 

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RE: P-80se start issue - 8/5/2012 10:31 PM   
Kelly Rohrbach


 

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Status: offline 		I will test that, would a bad start motor cause the no beep??

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RE: P-80se start issue - 8/5/2012 11:37 PM   
Kelly Rohrbach


 

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From: KALISPELL, MT, USA
Status: offline 		Well Vin
You may have nailed it!!
I tried to spin up the engine on the GSU and sure enough it won't, the clutch does fee wheel but does not move at all when powering up the system. I then hooked up the other P-80 and it does turn about two revs and at the same time gives me the audible beeps that are missing on the original engine. I pulled the little cover off the end of the case that covers the electric start motor and it looks like there are just two screws and a nut that hold it in place, anyone removed one before??
I would rather test the start motor out of the engine so as not to short something out an burn up the circuit board, that would be my luck.
Ideas??

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RE: P-80se start issue - 8/6/2012 1:10 AM   
Kelly Rohrbach


 

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Status: offline 		Well after exhausting all tests it has come down to the circuit board under the cowl. Pulled the start motor off (EASY) and direct powered it and it spins up just fine. hand spun the turbine and the RPM does read out on the GSU, also the EGT is showing on the GSU so I can only conclude that there is a disconnect somewhere within or too the circuit board.
Thanks to all who offered up ideas and the PM's

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RE: P-80se start issue - 8/6/2012 8:24 AM   
hotspot 01


 

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Status: offline 		Not particuly related to the thread but does show turbines are many parts rotating at great speed and when things go wrong it goes in a big way. The two pictures are of a P80 that decided to come apart it could happen to any turbine.

< Message edited by hotspot 01 -- 8/6/2012 9:10 AM >

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RE: P-80se start issue - 8/6/2012 11:53 PM   
Kelly Rohrbach


 

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Status: offline 		Well the culprit finally showed its ugly little head, it is in fact the starter motor. After a talk with Bob Wilcox this morning and explaining in detail what I was up against he mentioned to double check the continuity at the base of the supports that hold the start motor in place under the cowl. I did this and sure enough jumping the wires with the proper voltage nothing happened. Great, the short is in the A frame that supports the start motor, I thought this because I direct wired the motor and tested it yesterday and it worked fine. Well to day when I removed the motor again from the turbine and jumped it, nothing happened. So while holding the motor in my hands and holding the jump wires at the same time I spun the motor shaft and OFF IT WENT!!!
Disconnected the power and then touched it againnothing. So clearly there is a short in the electric motor that likes to show its self when he feels like it. I'm happy to say a call back to JC and Scotty is dropping a new one in the mail as I write this..
I did learn from Wilcox that the beep sounds do in fact come from the motor its self so this totally explains and confirms the issue I had.
Thanks again to all, I hope this helps someone out in the future.

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RE: P-80se start issue - 8/7/2012 12:07 AM   
Vincent



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Status: offline 		Good job of trouble shooting the problem Kelly btw take a good look at the oring. As long as you have eveything apart you may want to replace it.
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RE: P-80se start issue - 8/7/2012 12:31 AM   
Kelly Rohrbach


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vincent

Good job of trouble shooting the problem Kelly btw take a good look at the oring. As long as you have eveything apart you may want to replace it.
Vin...


Good call



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RE: P-80se start issue - 8/7/2012 5:07 AM   
advent996


 

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Status: offline 		Kelly,

Glad to hear the problem is solved.  I thought it sounded somewhat similar to what I am experiencing with my P160sx.  I was wondering who Bob was talking to between my calls to him this morning !!!

Happy Flying...

Bill 

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