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Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/5/2012 9:06 PM   
Seamus OLeprosy



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From: TrimCo Meath, IRELAND
Status: offline 		I have never managed to succesfully fly a control line model and dont want to head north without giving it another go.
I ordered a couple of these .15 2strokes  from Hobby King for a R/C twin I will build over the winter.


What I was hopeing is that someone knows of a C/L trainer plan that I could download and put together quickly.
I have a forest of balsa so dont mind if its a solid wing design


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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/6/2012 12:02 AM   
greggles47


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Seamus,

The Sabre is an old Oz trainer. Simple to build, rugged, and a good flier.

For a modern 15, like your AP the only change I'd recommend is to increase the span from 20" to 30". Also the fin has a tendency to break off on a roll over, so some support there will help.

Regards

Greg

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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/6/2012 6:56 AM   
Seamus OLeprosy



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Status: offline 		Thanks Greg

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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/7/2012 1:53 AM   
gcb



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Status: offline 		You might also consider setting the wing incidence at zero.

George

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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/7/2012 8:39 AM   
greggles47


 

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Status: offline 		Well spotted George.

We in Sydney use the Sabre for a fun racing class, and taking the incidence out is but one of the allowable changes. Another is not using a flat bottom wing section. Most opt for either 2/3 to 1/3 or even symetrical.

These changes can be incorporated if Seamus wishes, and will make the model fly a little better at trainer speeds.

With the motor suggested I'd use 50' lines.

Regards

Greg

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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/7/2012 3:31 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: online 		And unscrew the muffler stinger for a bit more power if you need it.

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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/7/2012 3:48 PM   
Seamus OLeprosy



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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/7/2012 7:24 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: online 		The AP muffler is constrictive.  Opening up the outlet on it gives it a lot more power, I just unscrew the outlet, or take off the muffler if the field allows it. Only if you think you need the extra power. On a trainer you likely don't need the power for a while.  I already am preconfussed.

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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/9/2012 5:38 PM   
Jim Thomerson



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Status: offline 		Here is one of my Guillows #2 trainers. It has hundreds of flights on it. Engine is a worn out McCoy 19 with 9 x 4 prop. In a fourstroke it gives 7 sec laps on 65 ft 015 lines. Not uniflow, so the last few laps are down to 6 sec; about 28 laps total.

Dimensions are; span 30 in, Chord 7 in to 5 1/2 at tip, fixed flap, wing 3/8 thick. 5 in from LE of wing to glowplug, 15.5 from LE of wing to elevator hinge line, stab span 13 in, stab 2 1/2in center with 2 in tips. Elevator 1 5/8 in center with 1 3/8 tips. CG 3/4 in back of wing LE. Fuselage 3/4 balsa, engine mount 3/4 in hardwood.

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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/9/2012 8:36 PM   
Seamus OLeprosy



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Status: offline 		Jim is there a pdf plan?


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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/9/2012 9:22 PM   
Jim Thomerson



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Status: offline 		Not that I know of. It is simple enough you could draw your own plans. Generally, on an airplane like this, you just start measuring and cutting, no need for plans.

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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/9/2012 9:49 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: online 		That looks pretty good.  Maybe a straight profile fuselage would be easier, but not much, and the landing gear wouldn't be as solid.  6 seconds a lap should be enough time to figure out how to fly it.  Don't forget the tip weight.

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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/9/2012 11:54 PM   
Patxipt


 

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Status: offline 		Here's one I built, flies nicely, even with a simple plank wing

More models on this page :

http://www.jpaeromodels.com/planosvuelocircular/iniciacion.htm

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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/11/2012 2:13 PM   
Seamus OLeprosy



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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/11/2012 5:11 PM   
paw080


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Thomerson

Here is one of my Guillows #2 trainers. It has hundreds of flights on it. Engine is a worn out McCoy 19 with 9 x 4 prop. In a fourstroke it gives 7 sec laps on 65 ft 015 lines. Not uniflow, so the last few laps are down to 6 sec; about 28 laps total.

Dimensions are; span 30 in, Chord 7 in to 5 1/2 at tip, fixed flap, wing 3/8 thick. 5 in from LE of wing to glowplug, 15.5 from LE of wing to elevator hinge line, stab span 13 in, stab 2 1/2in center with 2 in tips. Elevator 1 5/8 in center with 1 3/8 tips. CG 3/4 in back of wing LE. Fuselage 3/4 balsa, engine mount 3/4 in hardwood.



Hi Jim, My Dad bought the precurser to that model, I believe it was simply called the

Trixter Trainer. It had a 28" wing span, and came with wire landing gear and a pair of turned

hardwood wheels. My Dad mounted an OS Max-1 .35 in it. It actually was a great flying model,

My Dad flew solo on his second flight. I flew it several times and managed to fly it inverted

from a wingover entry. That was rather bold(stupid..!) of me since it had the cumpulsory

2 ounce Rectank. My dad flew it on .015" X 60' lines. He gave the model to some kid at the

flying field(Hawthorne HS Calif) several months later, but kept the engine and installed it in

an AJ Firecat. My Dad probably flew the Trainer over 250 times.

I'm sure it would have flown much better with your McCoy .19, because it didn't glide very well

with Max-1 .35 in the nose. Thanks for jogging my memory with your pics and comments.

Tony


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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/11/2012 10:22 PM   
Jim Thomerson



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Status: offline 		The ideal way to learn to fly control line is to have a slow stable airplane to fly, and have an experienced flyer out in the circle with you. The experienced flier holds your hand for the take off and first couple of laps, until you get the feel of it. Then lets you take over until you start to get dizzy. The experienced flier takes back the handle, and lands the airplane while you lie on your back with the world spinning around. Subsequent flights you will become more skilled and less dizzy. Soon you will be able to take off, fly the tank out and land by yourself without getting dizzy.

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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/11/2012 10:35 PM   
Seamus OLeprosy



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Thomerson

The ideal way to learn to fly control line is to have a slow stable airplane to fly, and have an experienced flyer out in the circle with you. The experienced flier holds your hand for the take off and first couple of laps, until you get the feel of it. Then lets you take over until you start to get dizzy. The experienced flier takes back the handle, and lands the airplane while you lie on your back with the world spinning around. Subsequent flights you will become more skilled and less dizzy. Soon you will be able to take off, fly the tank out and land by yourself without getting dizzy.

 Woo woo woo Jim. Are you saying I have to hold hands with an old bloke, have a little dance and then we have a lie down in the long grass?
I'm sticking to R/C, even a buddy lead is 4ft long and no touching



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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/12/2012 12:55 AM   
flyingagin



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Seamus OLeprosy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Thomerson

The ideal way to learn to fly control line is to have a slow stable airplane to fly, and have an experienced flyer out in the circle with you. The experienced flier holds your hand for the take off and first couple of laps, until you get the feel of it. Then lets you take over until you start to get dizzy. The experienced flier takes back the handle, and lands the airplane while you lie on your back with the world spinning around. Subsequent flights you will become more skilled and less dizzy. Soon you will be able to take off, fly the tank out and land by yourself without getting dizzy.

 Woo woo woo Jim. Are you saying I have to hold hands with an old bloke, have a little dance and then we have a lie down in the long grass?
I'm sticking to R/C, even a buddy lead is 4ft long and no touching




Well here is an option a dual handle




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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/12/2012 1:01 AM   
greggles47


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Seamus OLeprosy


 Woo woo woo Jim. Are you saying I have to hold hands with an old bloke, have a little dance and then we have a lie down in the long grass?
I'm sticking to R/C, even a buddy lead is 4ft long and no touching




Seamus,

That's hilarious!! I can't stop laughing.

Greg


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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/12/2012 4:51 PM   
gcb



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Seamus OLeprosy
 Woo woo woo Jim. Are you saying I have to hold hands with an old bloke, have a little dance and then we have a lie down in the long grass?
I'm sticking to R/C, even a buddy lead is 4ft long and no touching


After you learn to fly (by yourself) you will probably want to fly stunt or speed. Forget about team race or combat.

George


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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/12/2012 6:41 PM   
JohnBuckner



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Status: online 		Seamus OLeprosy The picture of the double handle that Flyingagine posted is indeed a viable training system. That is my handle and here it is in use

Also if you care to read this thread:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10752510/tm.htm

it illustrates a rather non traditional type of trainer that I worked up that happens to use a .15 also and it works extremely well on sixty foot lines even in light winds. The key here is this airplane is not intended for aerobatics. It is a primary around the pole trainer and excells at that. Primarily because of the non traditional long lines and a very effective rapid adjusting line slider.

John

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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/12/2012 6:51 PM   
flyingagin



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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnBuckner

Seamus OLeprosy The picture of the double handle that Flyingagine posted is indeed a viable training system. That is my handle and here it is in use

Also if you care to read this thread:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10752510/tm.htm

it illustrates a rather non traditional type of trainer that I worked up that happens to use a .15 also and it works extremely well on sixty foot lines even in light winds. The key here is this airplane is not intended for aerobatics. It is a primary around the pole trainer and excells at that. Primarily because of the non traditional long lines and a very effective rapid adjusting line slider.

John



JohnBuckner I sure hope you did not mind me posting that. I forgot where I pulled the pic from or I would have made sure I credited you I have now put a note on the pic. I have not yet made one of those but it sure looks like a heck of a good idea.
Now could you enlighten me on what a  adjusting line slider is? Is that to adjust the leadout positions?

Ken




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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/12/2012 8:56 PM   
JohnBuckner



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Status: online 		Oh absolutely not an issue and its a pleasure when someone enjoys a photo and uses a photo I posted. So thank you for the 'warm & fuzzies' this morning

I will dig up some more photos now in a few that illustrate a simple adjustable line slider.

John

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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/12/2012 9:29 PM   
Jim Thomerson



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Status: offline 		Seamus, If you choose the right buddy, it is not so bad.

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RE: Simple Trainer for a .15? - 8/12/2012 11:23 PM   
JohnBuckner



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Status: online 		Here ya go Flyingagin, The line slider is simply a ply plate carring the leadout tubes and it will slide from a more normal slightly aft of the bellcrank center position almost to the trailing edge and allow a substancial yaw of the airplane to the outside of the circle.

The plate has a single imbedded bolt from the wingtip going through it in a long slot and its simply tightened with a wing nut.

When it is dead calm the slider can be set at full forward and the airplane does fine and very stable as well as a slow rotation on the sixty foot lines.

When the breeze comes up it takes just seconds to move more towards the trailing edge and the airplane has no problem at all in staying out on the long lines in fairly stiff breezes.

This is really just a variation on what the carrier guys (always wanted to try that but never got to it) do only their sliders once keyed by a momentary full up they move in flight to full rear for the extreme slow carrier landings. At least thats the way I beleve their setups work.


John


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