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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/16/2013 7:26 PM   
CH Ignitions


 

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Status: offline 		Steve I can do the a overhaul on it, it uses I will say 25% less fuel , does not spits the fuel on exhaust.
Any way for more details just email/PM me , is a FG84 Thread and I do not want to spoil it.

Thanks
Adrian

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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/16/2013 8:13 PM   
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Status: offline 		Buy a new FA450R3 for $1400, add $200 for a C&H CDI & run it on methanol.

It will make as much or mre power than this low compression gas version.

The displacement comes out to 180 cylinders on the 150 stroke 27.9cc X 3 = 83.7cc. Unless theu made new, longer rods (I doubt that) it will be about 7.8:1 compression ratio.

I doubt that the 10% increase in displacement will make up for 8N Ford tractor compression ratio burning gasoline.

As far as power, anything the FG84R3 will do, an FA450 on CDI will do better.



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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/16/2013 8:36 PM   
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Status: offline 		I dont think that FG-84 R3 is that slouchy, On the video they are turning a 23x12. Which is not bad, But I would rather have gas as it is easier to come by.

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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/17/2013 5:09 AM   
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ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

Buy a new FA450R3 for $1400, add $200 for a C&H CDI & run it on methanol.

It will make as much or mre power than this low compression gas version.

The displacement comes out to 180 cylinders on the 150 stroke 27.9cc X 3 = 83.7cc. Unless theu made new, longer rods (I doubt that) it will be about 7.8:1 compression ratio.

I doubt that the 10% increase in displacement will make up for 8N Ford tractor compression ratio burning gasoline.

As far as power, anything the FG84R3 will do, an FA450 on CDI will do better.



You can have my whole share of glo fuel....it's all yers

< Message edited by n8622t -- 1/17/2013 9:34 AM >


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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/17/2013 5:14 AM   
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ORIGINAL: rcnut101

THe new FG-84 should be out around April time with a price around $1650 USD, Which includes ingnition and muffler.

Don't mean to be skeptic but how do you know?


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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/17/2013 8:04 AM   
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ORIGINAL: n8622t


quote:

ORIGINAL: rcnut101

THe new FG-84 should be out around April time with a price around $1650 USD, Which includes ingnition and muffler.

Don't mean to be skeptic but how do you know?


I had been given an email addresse to enquire about the evolution radial's but I was more Intrested in this FG-84 since I will be needing 2 of them. We shall see. I'm hoping for the best.

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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/17/2013 9:41 AM   
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Status: offline 		Ok rcnut101....since you want to keep it all a secret and want it to sound like you are special I will stick with my own information as well
Thanks anyway


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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/17/2013 4:06 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: n8622t

quote:

ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

Buy a new FA450R3 for $1400, add $200 for a C&H CDI & run it on methanol.

It will make as much or mre power than this low compression gas version.

The displacement comes out to 180 cylinders on the 150 stroke 27.9cc X 3 = 83.7cc. Unless theu made new, longer rods (I doubt that) it will be about 7.8:1 compression ratio.

I doubt that the 10% increase in displacement will make up for 8N Ford tractor compression ratio burning gasoline.

As far as power, anything the FG84R3 will do, an FA450 on CDI will do better.



You can have my whole share of glo fuel....it's all yers


I'll bet a methanol fired Saito engine will outlast a gas vesion many time over.


A 55 gallon drum of methanol is $100 has an almost infinate shelf lifen& doesn't smell. Cheaper, easier to store & less volitile. So what if I burn a little more of it to more power & longer engine life.


The reliability of "gas" engines has nothing to do W/the fuel used. It has everyting to do W/spark ignition.

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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/17/2013 4:08 PM   
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I dont think that FG-84 R3 is that slouchy, On the video they are turning a 23x12. Which is not bad, But I would rather have gas as it is easier to come by.


It won't out perform the FA450R3 on GI (as far as power) like people think & will lag behind when CDI is used on the 450.



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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/17/2013 5:27 PM   
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Status: offline 		Nice engine. Does anyone have pictures of the muffler? I wonder what it looks like.

-Ed B.

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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/17/2013 5:31 PM   
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Status: offline 		Saito must feel that there's a market for the gas versions of their engines or else they wouldn't make them. So regardless of the discussion about glow and CDI vs gas etc. it is what it is. The good part is that you'll have a choice.. I can't see an issue with that

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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/17/2013 8:21 PM   
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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/18/2013 2:19 AM   
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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/18/2013 2:29 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcnut101

I dont think that FG-84 R3 is that slouchy, On the video they are turning a 23x12. Which is not bad, But I would rather have gas as it is easier to come by.


It won't out perform the FA450R3 on GI (as far as power) like people think & will lag behind when CDI is used on the 450.



And that's why Saito is converting so many glow engines to gas?



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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/18/2013 2:03 PM   
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Status: offline 		Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't radial engines have non-symetrical spark firing?
Meaning a 3 cylinder engine does not fire every 120 degrees.
I believe it is to do with how the master rod and other rods interact.
This would be why every cylinder needs it's own magnet to fire?

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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/18/2013 5:11 PM   
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Status: offline 		A cylinder fires every 240 deg. Normally the firing order is 1-3-2. 1 & 3 fire on the first revolution and only cylinder 2 fires on the 2nd revolution. 2 revolutions of the crank complete a firing cycle on a 4 stroke engine. ( I hope )

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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/18/2013 11:53 PM   
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Status: offline 		I'm not sure if any one knows, But here are the specs.

http://www.saito-mfg.com/radial-files/FG-84R3/fg-84r3.html

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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/19/2013 12:57 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: n8622t


quote:

ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcnut101

I dont think that FG-84 R3 is that slouchy, On the video they are turning a 23x12. Which is not bad, But I would rather have gas as it is easier to come by.


It won't out perform the FA450R3 on GI (as far as power) like people think & will lag behind when CDI is used on the 450.



And that's why Saito is converting so many glow engines to gas?


You have to give the public what it thinks it wants regardless of practcality.

Should Saito ignored the current gas engine market?

Heck no. People get it in their heads that they want something, they will buy it even if it is not a significant improvement. Might as well give the suckers what they want.

Should Saito have utillized more proven components in their ignition systems rather than trying to utilize "proprietary" components?

Very much so. Most of their single cylinder gas engines are flops & require converting to C&H CDI & ZAMA/Walbro carburators for dependable power. Saito is taking a serious hit in reputation as this unfolds.

Should Saito have redesigned their engines for gasoline fuel?

Yes, but other than increasing displacement & (I assume) lowering CR they have not. Still the same crankshafts & connecting rods on most FG engines. The part #s for the crankshafts differ in that the FG crank has a provision to lock in the prop hub. (another poorly designed part of their ignition systems) No provisions for increased operating tempertures or reduced oiling.

A Saito engine converted to CDI while retaining methanol fuel will make more power than a gasoline conterpart W/less smell. It will run cooler & most likely last much longer. Other than the somewhat reduced operating cost for gasoline, (not taking into account reduced engine life) the CDI methanol engine will have all of the advantages of the gasoline counterpart.

If you want a gas burning 4-stroke engine, buy one designed as such from the get-go.

http://www.rotomotor.cz/rotomotor/en/default.html



All this, mind you, from a rabid Saito fan that has been running CDI W/methanol in my Saito engines since 1997.



< Message edited by SrTelemaster150 -- 1/19/2013 3:07 AM >

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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/19/2013 1:02 AM   
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Status: offline 		Same price, same displacement, same HP as the FG84 at .8# less weight.

Designed as a gas engine from the start.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemId=884603

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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/19/2013 2:51 AM   
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Status: offline 		Yes but..it's a two stroke.I'd like to see saito go down the same path kolm engines have.

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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/19/2013 2:53 AM   
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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/19/2013 3:03 AM   
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Yes but..it's a two stroke.I'd like to see saito go down the same path kolm engines have.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Fart

In the bird dog i meant.


Oh crap! I completely missed that. I was looking for something W/flight footage.

I'll go back & edit in some 4-stroke bench test videos then. The 85cc 4-stroke is what I was comparing to the FG84R3.



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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/21/2013 4:21 AM   
n8622t


 

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ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

quote:

ORIGINAL: n8622t


quote:

ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcnut101

I dont think that FG-84 R3 is that slouchy, On the video they are turning a 23x12. Which is not bad, But I would rather have gas as it is easier to come by.


It won't out perform the FA450R3 on GI (as far as power) like people think & will lag behind when CDI is used on the 450.



And that's why Saito is converting so many glow engines to gas?


You have to give the public what it thinks it wants regardless of practcality.

Should Saito ignored the current gas engine market?

Heck no. People get it in their heads that they want something, they will buy it even if it is not a significant improvement. Might as well give the suckers what they want.

Should Saito have utillized more proven components in their ignition systems rather than trying to utilize ''proprietary'' components?

Very much so. Most of their single cylinder gas engines are flops & require converting to C&H CDI & ZAMA/Walbro carburators for dependable power. Saito is taking a serious hit in reputation as this unfolds.

Should Saito have redesigned their engines for gasoline fuel?

Yes, but other than increasing displacement & (I assume) lowering CR they have not. Still the same crankshafts & connecting rods on most FG engines. The part #s for the crankshafts differ in that the FG crank has a provision to lock in the prop hub. (another poorly designed part of their ignition systems) No provisions for increased operating tempertures or reduced oiling.

A Saito engine converted to CDI while retaining methanol fuel will make more power than a gasoline conterpart W/less smell. It will run cooler & most likely last much longer. Other than the somewhat reduced operating cost for gasoline, (not taking into account reduced engine life) the CDI methanol engine will have all of the advantages of the gasoline counterpart.

If you want a gas burning 4-stroke engine, buy one designed as such from the get-go.

http://www.rotomotor.cz/rotomotor/en/default.html



All this, mind you, from a rabid Saito fan that has been running CDI W/methanol in my Saito engines since 1997.



Wow a certified shrink.....sorry dude I know what I want and it ain't glow



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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/21/2013 6:50 AM   
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Status: offline 		Convenience of availability, economical value, and no oily residue of gasoline far far far..... Did I say far.....outweighs the ever so slight loss of power over glow fuel, in my humble opinion


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RE: New Saito 4 Cycle Gas Engine, 3 Cyl FG-84 - 1/21/2013 11:19 AM   
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Status: offline 		The last thought that came to mind is humble,pm me and we'll go from there.Sr telemaster posts a lot of real good info about this very subject and like it or not it is given.Think about that.;

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