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Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/16/2012 8:17 PM   
AndyAndrews


 

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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/16/2012 8:56 PM   
mick15



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Status: online 		If I'm not mistaken the guy with the camera at 2min 09 is our good buddy Lozza?

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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/16/2012 9:11 PM   
Geoff White



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Status: offline 		Nope, I don't think it is. I was on the phone to Laurie last night and he didn't mention it. Plus that guy isn't ugly enough for it to be Laurie

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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/16/2012 9:25 PM   
Carbon-Customs



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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/16/2012 9:41 PM   
weasel33



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Status: offline 		Takes me back to the time i was gliding over the lake district in northwest england
and one flew underneath us, im still convinced he did it on purpose just to put the wind up


brian

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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/16/2012 10:03 PM   
hooker53



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Status: offline 		Man I could sit and watch this stuff all day. Ha. Thanks

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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/16/2012 10:12 PM   
dubd



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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/16/2012 10:48 PM   
Jgwright


 

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Status: offline 		Fantastic aircraft and great shots of it at Beachy Head. Really great in HD and on full screen. I saw it perform at Farnborough in the 1950's but never saw it being rolled.



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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/16/2012 11:24 PM   
lozza1965


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mick15 If I'm not mistaken the guy with the camera at 2min 09 is our good buddy Lozza? m
Nope I'm much better looking Mick, plus hes only got a little one, actually I think thats Neil Cave we had a base visit to Coningsby the other week and spent the afternoon with 3 Squadron and there Typhoons, thought about going but couldn't get the night off work, and Vulcan wasn't flying on the Sunday, TBH seen it loads of times now so not that fussed. So hurtfull Geoff, just cause your taking me to Jet power this year does not mean you can abuse me, lol


lozza

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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/17/2012 2:42 AM   
Ram-bro


 

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Status: offline 		so is the Vulcan still in service with the Brits?

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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/17/2012 5:56 AM   
Robrow



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ram-bro

so is the Vulcan still in service with the Brits?


No, retired in the early 80's.

Rob.

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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/17/2012 6:02 PM   
GraemeEllis



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Status: offline 		WOW ! 

I visited the RAF museum 4 years ago and was in awe of the Vulcan they had preserved in one of the hangers. Walking underneath it was kind of scary because I couldn't see how the three spindly u/c legs could possibly hold up all that weight. 

Seeing it flying would be something I think would be impossible to forget and I would love to experience. 

Thanks for sharing! 


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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/17/2012 8:11 PM   
blhollo2


 

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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/17/2012 8:19 PM   
JohnMac



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Status: offline 		I was lucky enough to be at RAF Waddington a few years ago when they returned this particular Vulcan to the skies. I was never at an airshow like this one. The emotional tension in the build up to the take off was palpable, and the cheer from the crowd was deafening.
I wish I had been at Beachy head to see it, but last year we had a private airshow at Elvington. Quite amazing as it cruised overhead at 200 feet. The airfeild is the home to the Yorkshire air museum and during WW11, it was home to Canadian and Free French bomber squadrons. The occasion was a memorial to the fallen in that campaign and the Vulcan was there to salute them.
Nice as it is, this aircraft is nursed through it's routine in order to preserve it as long as possible. It in no way represents the Vulcans performance in RAF service, which put many fighters of the day to shame. Everybody stops when a Vulcan flies over. Bl**dy marvelous

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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/17/2012 9:22 PM   
tevans55


 

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Status: offline 		I was fortunate to see the Vulcan fly at Armed Forces Day at Andrews Air Force Base in Washington DC. It was the early 80's and the bomber stopped to fly in the air show on its way to the Falkland Islands. The Vulcan actually did a climb on take off that ended in a wing over. I thought the thing was crashing and stepped in front of my wife because I thought it was coming down. One of the most amazing planes I ever saw in the air. The pilot did a low pass with the bomb doors wide open and it was like the whole bottom of the plane was open. If I remember correctly wasn't the Vulcan developed as the first RAF nuclear delivery platform?

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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/17/2012 11:44 PM   
JohnMac



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Status: offline 		Well the first RAF Nuclear armed bomber was the Canberra. However a long range strategic bomber was needed to counter the growing Soviet threat. Three companies all came up with offerings. These all went into service. The first was the Vickers Valient, and later came the Avro Vulcan and Handley Page Victor.
Once Gary Powers was shot down the days of the high level attack profile were over, so the RAF switched to low level penetration attacks. The Valiant was not up to this as the wing spars were too weak. Both the Vulcan and the elagant Victor were quite capable of this attack profile, which would often be terminated in a 45 degree pitch up to toss the bomb the last 30 miles onto the target, with the bomber continuing until inverted, rolling out and diving back to the deck to escape the blast.
Sadly we will never see a Victor fly again, but we can at least enjoy the Vulcan.

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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/18/2012 10:35 AM   
JohnMac



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Status: offline 		A few shots from RAF Waddington 2008.

Attachments
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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/18/2012 3:05 PM   
Robrow



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Status: offline 		Vulcan was my intro into the world of nuke bombers, probably one of the best crowd pleaser displays. Unfortunately we fought a loosing battle on maintenance as the airframes were never up to the low level battering from the role change and used to joke about the need for umbrellas for the rivet showers

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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/18/2012 10:18 PM   
David Gladwin



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quote:

ORIGINAL: . Both the Vulcan and the elagant Victor were quite capable of this attack profile, which would often be terminated in a 45 degree pitch up to toss the bomb the last 30 miles onto the target, with the bomber continuing until inverted, rolling out and diving back to the deck to escape the blast.



I think you are confusing LABS (Low Altitude Bombing System) which was a Canberra manouevre (the Canberra was reasonably aerobatic, ask my navigators !) ) with the V force delivery. Canberras did LABS in the tactical nuclear role, the V force, the strategic force, didn't , yes we could release the weapons in a steep climb but did not pull to the inverted. We had 3 main delivery profiles, high level with Red Beard or Yellow Sun, ('buckets of sunshine !") British weapons, but when armed with US owned laydown weapons when assigned to SACEUR (as was my squadron, 207) this was a low altitude parachute retarded weapon to be released at fairly low level. We were normally armed with 2 of these weapons when on the dreaded QRA, 15 minutes standby, at Marham.

It is often reported that the Valiant wing failures were caused by fatigue in the low level role, in fact my information, (and I flew the last Valiant squadron sortie on December 9th 1964) before the grounding, is that the problem was caused fundamentally by dissimmilar metal (steel to aluminium) corrosion, something not well understood when Sir George Edwards and his team at Vickers designed the Valiant, an all electric aeroplane (except wheelbrakes and nosewheel steering) Low level ops, 300 knots at 250 feet didn't exactly help though !

When Roly Falk did a roll off the top at Farnborough in the Vulcan he was in a VERY light aeroplane with very low fuel, a bit like the stunning A380 display at Farnborough this year (max IAS 160 knots !) virtually within the airfield boundary. Wonderful flying !


Regards,

David.

PS Not sure the Canberra was the first RAF nuclear armed bomber, the British weapons (RB and YS) were too big to fit in a Canberra bomb bay.

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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/19/2012 12:34 AM   
Hustler58



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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/19/2012 10:22 AM   
JohnMac



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Status: offline 		Hi David,
You obviously have the advantage over me as I did not ever fly a V bomber.
My information comes from two sources, books and other V bomber pilots.
In books I have read on the subject I learned that the first British nuclear weapons were tested by being released from Canberra bombers. They may have been specially adapted for this operation, but clearly they were not the answer for Britain's future strategic nuclear bomber force. However, unless the authors were mistaken then the Canberra was by definition the first British aircrft to be armed with a nuclear weapon.
As for the attack profile, I got this information from a Vulcan pilot during camp at RAF Scampton. I guess I was an impressionable 16 year old space cadet. My squadron was at annual camp there. Perhaps this particular pilot (who was not that much older than us) was exagerating to impress us, but we were in the company of a whole group of Vulcan crew, and none of then contradicted him. Perhaps this was a standard "tall tale".
Scampton was our most eargerly anticipated camp, and the most disapointing in reality. The security, not surprisibgly was extremely high and we spent very little time with the Vulcan squadrons (which was the only thing we wanted to do). My memory of the place is a rather grim reality of preparing for nuclear war.
Marham the following year with the Victor K2 tankers was much more fun, and we got to spend lots of time with 55 (I think) and 57 squadrons plus the OCU.
John


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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/19/2012 11:32 AM   
Boomerang1



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Status: offline 		Some interesting info on the Canberra on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Electric_Canberra

Included is information that Britain's first nuclear bomber force were 'borrowed' B-29
Superfortresses until the V bombers were ready. The Canberra was equiped for later,
smaller 'tactical' nukes.

It's both sad & realistic that we will most likely will never see the likes of these types of
machines produced again. - John.

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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/19/2012 1:36 PM   
JohnMac



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Status: offline 		Oh Yes,
I know about the B29's. They were based at Elvington which is were we now fly. We benefit from a 2 mile long runway, and a hardstanding or PAN that is .6 of a mile by .4 of a mile. We never need to worry about a crosswind if we fly on the PAN.
I don't think that the B29's were in service with the RAF for long, as by then they would have been obsolete, in the age of jet fighters. The American experience with the B29 bears this out, and if it were not for the F86's the B29 would have been decimated.
The RAF would have faced MIG15's flown by Easter European and Russian pilots. These would have been much more formidable than the North Korean pilots I suspect.
John

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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/19/2012 1:57 PM   
David Gladwin



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Status: offline 		John,

You may be right, but in my time in the V force (Valiant and Victor) I never heard of the Vulcan being used in the LABS manoeuvre for weapon delivery. It certainly WAS used for tactical delivery by Canberra B6s. The Canberra never carried radar (unlike the V bombers which had NBS) but had simple LABS equipment installed, G meter, Labs timer and release timer. The forward toss was nothing like 30 miles, 3 or 4 I believe. The attack profile was 400 knots as low as possible, 3 G pull, release at 45 degrees and roll off the top at less than 200k. Then clear off at high speed ! A great inducer of pilot disorientation and we lost several Canberras during LABS training.

I think those Vulcan pilots were line shooting although the Vulcan 2 MAY have been capable of it, certainly the Mk2s with the big engines. ! The Victor 1 certainly wasn't capable of it, very fast at high level but not particularly manoeuverable and short of thrust in the Mk 1 version, Saphire powered.

Working in the V force was a very serious business, started really well for me, being posted to Marham to replace a crew killed in the Market Rasen Valiant crash, never explained, but perhaps was one of the first rear spar failures (the Spanhoe Valiant loss was also unexplained). Being trained to handle nuclear weapons (last minute loading) was very sobering for a 19 year old lad not long out of school. Seeing our Valiants being scrapped at Marham was a very sad experience.

As for the Canberra, I have never heard of, or seen it written, that it was the first nuclear ARMED RAF bomber. Canberras were used as support (mainly atmospheric sampling) aircraft during operation Grapple, first live A bomb tests from a Valiant.

Glad you enjoyed Marham (El Adem with grass !) I did the Victor OCU there before flying with 55 and 57 with Victor 1s. a botch of a tanker, grossly underpowered, replaced with the far better Mk2s with the big wing and Conways. Looking back at the RAF tanker force its always been a poor relation, its wonderful to see the RAF will soon have the Voyager, Airbus A330, in service giving it a REALLY serious tanker capability.

Coffee over, back to finishing that Tomboy for my 3 yr old grandson (although he prefers my BVM F4 on the other end of the workbench0

regards,

David.

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RE: Wow Vulcan low passes from above perspective - VID - 8/19/2012 5:15 PM   
JohnMac



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Status: offline 		By The time I got to Marham in the early 70's I am pretty sure they were all mark 2 Victors. One of the best things about that camp was sitting at the back of a lecture given by the OCU instructors to new Lightning pilots on how to tank off the Victors. Fascinating stuff, but we wandered out mixed with these lads of 19, who where shaking heads and seemed quite sure that what they had just been told was impossible. Of course Lightning pilots became dab hands at tanking, they certainly got enough practice.
Back to the Vulcan and that camp at Scampton, one lightler moment that has come to mind was practicing for the dreaded camp drill competion. This particular morning we were be taken for practice by a couple of RAF Regiment NCO's (a right bundle of laugh's). So they marched us down to one corner of the peri track as several Vulcans started up and began to roll. They then stood us at open order on the grass, and told us eyes forward or else. Then they seemed to disappear.
We didn't care as we were fianlly going to get close to some Vulcans, as they turned the corner towards the runway. Of course as they turned we were directly behind them, and as they gave her a little throttle to get her moving we were just blown off our feet.
The NCO's then appeared as if by magic to prove they did have a sense of humour after all. They thought it was hilarious. I am quite sure that a few of the smaller cadets were never seen again.

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