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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/28/2012 3:49 PM   
TheEdge



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So you will just keep this up till your heart stops pumping blood to your brain as you are completely unable to stop all this before then?

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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/28/2012 3:52 PM   
Arbo


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheEdge

So you will just keep this up till your heart stops pumping blood to your brain as you are completely unable to stop all this before then?


That doesn't really answer the question I asked you, does it?



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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/28/2012 4:10 PM   
littlecrankshaf



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arbo


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheEdge

So you will just keep this up till your heart stops pumping blood to your brain as you are completely unable to stop all this before then?


That doesn't really answer the question I asked you, does it?



Heck, wouldn't life would be so much better if you could just delete his posts??? LOL

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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/28/2012 4:37 PM   
Hossfly



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While I still hold the opinion that Arbo definitely enjoyed his reign of being able to eliminate whatever he chose to do so, with absolutely NO need to state why, I also believe that the AMA Headquarters really wanted to provide a forum, yet make rules so drastic that no one could discuss real issues without being cut off. This would provide the AMA staff with adequate material (evidence) to say that the membership could and would not follow those rules that the staff determined to be needed.
One needs to remember that Arbo was a rather late comer and he had a lot of help from another power-player, Frank Muroc.

Just last week I made a post to the forum concerning the statement of an administrator (Brent) referencing his comments that the AMA forum just was less than AMA wanted.
That post was quickly removed - by whom I know not, but here is the administrator's remaining edited post as of this AM.

"I as a staff member also enjoyed certain parts of the forum. It was fun to see some AMA members interact with each other, who would normally not do so. It is too bad that the forums couldn't be more of what we had envisioned, but we gave it a try. Thanks to all who participated.
<message edited by Brent on Friday, August 24, 2012 4:21 PM>

My answer was eliminated.

Other references to the AMA Staff's thoughts are GONE! Still the ".... we envisioned..." does state the pre-planned ideas of the Staff. The forum - IN MY OPINION - was never intended to stand. Obtaining power-hungry individuals to assist is never really a problem for those that want such.

For you that remember, and those that remember not, RCU used to provide a special forum for AMA candidates running for AMA office. I ran for Ex. Vice President and I participated. The other candidate did for a short time but could not take the heat. He won.

Muroc and a guy by name of Mitchell came on and IMO, they must have been paid by AMA or perhaps Sandy Frank. They rolled in the dirt and tried every method over and over to wear me down. They used the same questions over and over. In any case I felt rather sorry for them as they appeared to be totally void of any form of understanding plain English!

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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/28/2012 5:24 PM   
littlecrankshaf



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hossfly

One needs to remember that Arbo was a rather late comer and he had a lot of help from another power-player, Frank Muroc.



True that. I was hopeful that Arbo could resist being "one of the group". I guess Frank finally blew enough smoke under Arbo's skirt to convince him to facilitate his agenda there.


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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/28/2012 5:31 PM   
Arbo


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

Heck, wouldn't life would be so much better if you could just delete his posts??? LOL


Nope.   But the reality of not removing posts because they were disagreed with has been pointed out and proved over and over.     

Horrace, I just looked at that thread, it does not show a single message that has been moved to the recycle bin.    Which means if any message was removed, it was done by an admin and they deleted it completely, as I move messages to the recycle bin.     

I should add in, The Edge is correct in pretty much saying this whole discussion is stupid.    As has been stated repeatedly, just like every other forum, the AMA forum had rules.   They were more strict than most other forums because those that decided to put up the forum had seen what goes on in other forums, the recreational arguing, the bickering the backhanded jabs and other nonsense.   They didn't want ANY of that on their forum.    They wanted a more civil environment, a more positive environment.   You could say what you wanted, be it supporting the AMA and it's policies, or questioning the AMA and it's policies, *as long as it was kept civil and postive*.    There are plenty of users that were able to do this, and you can read through old threads and see both pro and con in different messages.   

In a society that has trended towards all out bickering and arguing, pitting side against side, I kinda applaud the AMA for at least attempting to hold a higher standard and not let their forum become just another one full of uncivil behavior.

They relied on normal AMA members to put forth their time and effort to enforce the rules and keep things civil on the forum.   Some of those in charge watched over the forum and 'moderated' things when they got out of hand, but most of that fell to the 'civilian' voluenteers, as they checked in more frequently.     Every single one of those that offered their time and effort were attacked for enforcing the AMA's rules.   Claims of conspiracy, claims of bias, claimes of some secret agenda, the list goes on and on, and the 'attackers' never stopped.    It always seemed it would be easier to read over one's own post prior to hitting 'send' and ensure it stayed inside the rules, rather than get bent out of shape and run to 2 or 3 other forums to complain that they 'were treated unfairly'.     

Quite a few of those that complained insessantly about the 'moderation' were also those that could be found across the internet talking about how the AMA forum shouldn't exist at all.   And when it is announced that it is closing up, the reaction is 180 degrees out from their previous wishes.

You can search this thread, you can search other threads in the sub forum, you can search other forums on the topic of the AMA or the AMA forums, and read posts from the same people, with the same negative attitude, the same finger pointing and uncivil behavior.     This sub forum doesn't get much traffic, nor does the AMA sub form on another big RC forum, because of the same group of people doing the same thing over and over.   The behavior keeps otherwise good and civil contributors away from those areas.   It was no different on the AMA's forum, other than we did our best to enforce the rules with an even hand and ensure the site did not become another RC(X) AMA sub forum.     This obviously made a lot of people mad.    They weren't allowed to act and post as they could elsewhere.    And rather than follow the rules, they simply complained.     *They* owned that forum because their dues paid for it, it was a violation of their 1st amendment rights to not let them say *whatever they wanted*, *however they wanted*.    You can go back YEARS on several of these forums and see the same attitudes from the same handful of users.     

In the end, a combination of those that would not follow the rules there, that were always trying to create drama, scaring away good and civil contributors, together with the lack of effort on the AMA's part to keep AMA officials checking in and active on the forum, all combined to kill it.     I'm sure any AMA official that was involved in/with the forum would dismiss their lack of effort, but if they were honest (rather than PC) would say the main reason for shutting it down was it required too much effort due to a few select users.





< Message edited by Arbo -- 8/28/2012 5:54 PM >


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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/28/2012 5:59 PM   
littlecrankshaf



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arbo


    

Horrace, I just looked at that thread, it does not show a single message that has been moved to the recycle bin.    Which means if any message was removed, it was done by an admin and they deleted it completely, as I move messages to the recycle bin.     



I guess that means Hoss is either fabricating or has poor recollection of what occurred (very doubtful in either case) or the forum was completely dysfunctional... as someone that understands the means always justifies the ends, I am going with the latter...and the end is coming...and not a moment too soon.

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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/28/2012 6:16 PM   
littlecrankshaf



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arbo


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

Heck, wouldn't life would be so much better if you could just delete his posts??? LOL


Nope.   But the reality of not removing posts because they were disagreed with has been pointed out and proved over and over.     






Seems you added quite a bit to your original post while I was replying to another...and since you once again seem to cast me with some group...

Here is something that may be hard for you to understand, as I find it almost universally misunderstood. There is a critical distinction about my position on AMA; I am not against AMA per se. I just happen to have a real problem with the interpretation many have of it and the way that misinterpretation is perpetuated by some. maybe most people within...I understand that if something isn't done soon it will ultimately become an organization that will fulfill their perceptions of it.

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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/28/2012 6:21 PM   
phlpsfrnk



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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheEdge

Both sides are spending an incredible amount of time finger pointing. No matter who's right and who's wrong, it's still plain to see how guilty you all are of not being responsible enough to be able to be the better person and to just pull away and move on.
How much wasted time and energy must have been lost that cannot be reclaimed.
Is it really that much a of a priority in your lives?

TheEdge,
You are correct; I have reread my posts here and believe I have been reasonable, factual and civil in my responses and requests. The best I’ve gotten in return has been sarcasm and ridicule which is SOP when he has ever dealt with me.

Here's an example of a thread that he participated in, moderated and made off topic posts and again locked without reason given;

http://www.modelaircraft.org/forums/tm.aspx?m=14066

Please note that he has never shown any factual evidence or provided examples of wrong doing on my part and I seriously doubt that he can. Until he does I’m done.

Regards
Frank


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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/28/2012 6:35 PM   
TheEdge



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It's obvious that no one is going to be satisfied with anyones answers and yet you still keep dragging it on and on.
None of you will get what you want and your certainly not going to get the time back that youv'e lost to this cause.

Don't you see this?

So why keep going?

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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/28/2012 7:02 PM   
Arbo


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: phlpsfrnk

You are correct; I have reread my posts here and believe I have been reasonable, factual and civil in my responses and requests. The best I’ve gotten in return has been sarcasm and ridicule which is SOP when he has ever dealt with me.

Here's an example of a thread that he participated in, moderated and made off topic posts and again locked without reason given;

http://www.modelaircraft.org/forums/tm.aspx?m=14066

Please note that he has never shown any factual evidence or provided examples of wrong doing on my part and I seriously doubt that he can. Until he does I’m done.

Regards
Frank



Yes, you used the desire, stated by Jim Rice, to close down the forum due to the lack of civil behavior (as he had administrator/moderator access as well).    There is a huge irony in all of that, considering who he considered to be those that were causing all the 'trouble'.   

Stuff where you broke the rules and required moderation:  
1) Attacks on Kidepoxy
2) "I also agree with Brad that moderators should not moderate threads they participate in.  I hope the moderation I’ve already seen here was done by a third (uninvolved) moderator."  Removed because the AMA President said point blank, discussion of the moderation was not a topic for the public forum, to use PM's and other methods.    This was a recurring theme by you, broking at least dozens of times.  Including one where you referred to the other moderator as a 'brown nose'.   
3) you often responded to others and went on rants about their 'lack of comprehension', again, against the rules.
4) You quite often reposted messages that were removed due to rules violations.
5) you went on a rampage about how the leader members were 'hiding' stuff, insisting that sub form needed to be open to the public, just about always crossing the lines of the rules in terms of negativity put forth, and yet again, when messages were removed, you continuiously reposted them anway, with a total disreguard for the rules. 

I could go on, but I think this makes the point towards you statement that you 'never did wrong'.... 


TheEdge, how is a quick post here and there wasting of any more time than the posts you have made so far? 



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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/28/2012 7:44 PM   
TheEdge



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Your right, I have wasted too much time already.

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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/28/2012 8:26 PM   
Hossfly



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arbo

Horrace, I just looked at that thread, it does not show a single message that has been moved to the recycle bin.    Which means if any message was removed, it was done by an admin and they deleted it completely, as I move messages to the recycle bin.  


Arbo, I am not here to argue or blame you. My post above pretty well stated that I think the named administrator did just exactly as you state. He removed my post and revised his own that I had remarked about.  

quote:


In a society that has trended towards all out bickering and arguing, pitting side against side, I kinda applaud the AMA for at least attempting to hold a higher standard and not let their forum become just another one full of uncivil behavior.


That, Arbo, is your choice, so be it. As for me, I do not care to bow down to those that want everything to be dancing around the posies. That "....let's just kiss..." attitude has brought this whole country to its knees. I was, is and will be one that can speak his piece.

quote:


They relied on normal AMA members to put forth their time and effort to enforce the rules and keep things civil on the forum.   Some of those in charge watched over the forum and 'moderated' things when they got out of hand, but most of that fell to the 'civilian' voluenteers, as they checked in more frequently.     Every single one of those that offered their time and effort were attacked for enforcing the AMA's rules.  ...


Many individuals have seen their rulers in that same type of environment. They follow/ed the "RULES" and do/did as they are/were directed. Were YOU, Arbo, picked because someone believed that you were such, that you would do what the Big Guys upstairs directed, regardless of the hurt placed on the lower individuals and groups?
 
quote:


  I'm sure any AMA official that was involved in/with the forum would dismiss their lack of effort, but if they were honest (rather than PC) would say the main reason for shutting it down was it required too much effort due to a few select users.



You are entitled to believe whatever you wish. I try to give credit where credit is due, but I don't think many that know me will say that I am afraid to violate the rules, without any question, when I think they are wrong.
As of now, I am through with this thread.

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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/28/2012 9:40 PM   
Arbo


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hossfly
As for me, I do not care to bow down to those that want everything to be dancing around the posies. That "....let's just kiss..." attitude has brought this whole country to its knees. I was, is and will be one that can speak his piece.


As I said, some think they 'own' part of the forum so they should be allowed to say whatever they want, and some think the the above statement, either way, in the end, it is a disreguard for following the rules.  And it is never *their* fault, and they never did anything *wrong*.    Yep.  



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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/28/2012 11:14 PM   
FILE IFR



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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheEdge

If this is anything like the way in which the AMA forum carried on,,then it's all very apparant.



Same thoughts here.

Fact: Folks who thrive on confrontation shouldn't moderate.

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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/29/2012 12:16 AM   
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That's to bad what are those 10 poor soles going to do know. AMA may want to increase Security at Muncie. Goodbye

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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/29/2012 1:07 AM   
Arbo


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jerrysu29

That's to bad what are those 10 poor soles going to do know. AMA may want to increase Security at Muncie. Goodbye


Considering the level of threats and demands they received over a simple forum, that might be a good idea on their part. 



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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/29/2012 1:18 AM   
Darkbird



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WOW, 10 days and 10 pages, and the horse is still dead. Whack-whack-whack. Just let it go guys.

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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/29/2012 4:27 AM   
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"Please resist the urge to curse, flame, degrade, insult or embarrass someone in your post."

Pretty simple policy stated by RCU. Some of you have no self control. I just read all 10 pages on this forum and I sit here asking myself.....really!!!???

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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/29/2012 4:24 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hossfly




That, Arbo, is your choice, so be it. As for me, I do not care to bow down to those that want everything to be dancing around the posies. That ''....let's just kiss...'' attitude has brought this whole country to its knees. I was, is and will be one that can speak his piece.




Ahh... Come on Hossy, give me a little sugar..sweetie .

Seriously, Hoss is right on target with that one.

I much rather have a conversation where people can and do speak their mind rather than being held to a politically correct standard... But with that being said forums must have some very clear rules and those rules should be clear enough to not allow subjective or arbotrary decisions about what is acceptable. The rules at the AMA site could have been rendered into just one; If we (anyone of us) don't like what you post we will remove it and if you do that enough we will ban you... That just about covers it.

The problem over there was that "kissing"...err... up... determined who did the cutting.


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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/29/2012 4:30 PM   
Arbo


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

The rules at the AMA site could have been rendered into just one; If we (anyone of us) don't like what you post we will remove it and if you do that enough we will ban you... That just about covers it.



Again, the above statement is about the furthest from the truth one can get.    Repeating it doesn't make it true.  



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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/29/2012 4:46 PM   
littlecrankshaf



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arbo


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

The rules at the AMA site could have been rendered into just one; If we (anyone of us) don't like what you post we will remove it and if you do that enough we will ban you... That just about covers it.



Again, the above statement is about the furthest from the truth one can get.    Repeating it doesn't make it true.  



I suspect that if you had not been a moderator there you would be saying something very similar to what everyone else has been saying...

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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/29/2012 4:53 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

The rules at the AMA site could have been rendered into just one; If we (anyone of us) don't like what you post we will remove it and if you do that enough we will ban you... That just about covers it.

There's another forum that does that also. Always denied, but there are more than enough people who have attested to it with more than enough examples. What I've observed is that by the time people start speaking out about it, the issue is well known to impartial users of the forum that spend much time there. Even if you get a crowd of people posting about the issues, they would still deny it though. In their case however, they wisely do their best to neither confirm or deny the claims, simply not responding to them.

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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/29/2012 5:01 PM   
Arbo


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

I suspect that if you had not been a moderator there you would be saying something very similar to what everyone else has been saying...


And your suspicions would be incorrect. 



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RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum - 8/29/2012 5:05 PM   
littlecrankshaf



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arbo


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

I suspect that if you had not been a moderator there you would be saying something very similar to what everyone else has been saying...


And your suspicions would be incorrect. 



I might believe that... but when I look at how you responded to another AMA forum site when actions were taken against you...I am going to stay with my first blush...

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