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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/28/2012 8:52 PM   
DieHard1207



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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/28/2012 9:26 PM   
toolmaker7341


 

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Status: offline 		Are you guy's kidding.worried about a couple of econo boxes.What would do with any real horsepower(600-800),probably hurt yourself.

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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/28/2012 9:33 PM   
cumminspower5.9



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ORIGINAL: toolmaker7341

Are you guy's kidding.worried about a couple of econo boxes.What would do with any real horsepower(600-800),probably hurt yourself.


Where in this thread does the mood come off as being "worried"? This would be the same type of conversation with higher HP cars. And I didn't know there was such thing as fake horsepower. Horsepower is horsepower. Some cars have higher than others.


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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/28/2012 9:40 PM   
Lunchboxer



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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/28/2012 10:02 PM   
Foxy



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ORIGINAL: toolmaker7341

Are you guy's kidding.worried about a couple of econo boxes.What would do with any real horsepower(600-800),probably hurt yourself.


I used to drive a car that has literally killed hundreds of people, the (majority of) Americans who owned one of the originals, found it so hard to drive, the manufacturer had to make a different model of it for sale in America, I used to drive it on the edge too, it tried to kill me a few times but failed, car had to go when baby daughter came, I can handle my horses thanks.

What's your daily driver?

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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/28/2012 10:29 PM   
HJJFFFAA



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

quote:

ORIGINAL: toolmaker7341

Are you guy's kidding.worried about a couple of econo boxes.What would do with any real horsepower(600-800),probably hurt yourself.


I used to drive a car that has literally killed hundreds of people, the (majority of) Americans who owned one of the originals, found it so hard to drive, the manufacturer had to make a different model of it for sale in America, I used to drive it on the edge too, it tried to kill me a few times but failed, car had to go when baby daughter came, I can handle my horses thanks.

What's your daily driver?

I don't recall ever hearing that an S2000 was considered difficult to drive. Nor have I heard of any special NA model, beyond the larger 2.2L engine...

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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/28/2012 10:34 PM   
The Hedgehog



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Status: offline 		Foxy have you ever mentioned HP/Liter to anyone in conversation? I never met a s2000 owner that hasn't lol

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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/28/2012 10:39 PM   
Lunchboxer



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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/28/2012 11:37 PM   
Foxy



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quote:

ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA


quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

quote:

ORIGINAL: toolmaker7341

Are you guy's kidding.worried about a couple of econo boxes.What would do with any real horsepower(600-800),probably hurt yourself.


I used to drive a car that has literally killed hundreds of people, the (majority of) Americans who owned one of the originals, found it so hard to drive, the manufacturer had to make a different model of it for sale in America, I used to drive it on the edge too, it tried to kill me a few times but failed, car had to go when baby daughter came, I can handle my horses thanks.

What's your daily driver?

I don't recall ever hearing that an S2000 was considered difficult to drive. Nor have I heard of any special NA model, beyond the larger 2.2L engine...

The F22C was created because Americans couldn't get the hang of driving a car that revved over 5000, fully 1200revs were cut from the top end, castrating the car. Americans were taking the car back saying it was slower than their wives' Jeeps because they were shifting at 3k lol.
quote:


Quote from wikipedia

The AP2 also included the introduction of a larger version of the F20C for the North American market. Designated F22C1, the engine's stroke was lengthened, increasing its displacement to 2,157 cc (132 cu in). At the same time, the redline was reduced from 8,800 rpm to 8,000 rpm with a cutout at 8,200 rpm, mandated by the longer travel of the pistons. Peak torque increased 6% to 162 lbf·ft (220 N·m) at 6,800 rpm while power output was reduced to 237 hp (177 kW) at a lower 7,800 rpm. In conjunction with its introduction of the F22C1, Honda also changed the transmission gear ratios by shortening the first four gears and lengthening the last two. Another change was the inclusion of a clutch release delay valve.[9]

Honda enthusiasts also purport that traction control was added because of young American kids killing themselves in the AP1, but this may or may not be hyperbole. I didn't make my point very clear anyway, which was...you can hurt yourself in the right car with a lot less than 600hp (please, don't come back with 'yeh you can hurt yourself ina 60hp car, if you crash into a wall, we all know what I'm saying here').

Hedgehog, make it honda enthusiasts in general, not just s2000 owners.

Still, I have a heavily biased view point on the muscle cars vs 4 bangers. I'm jealous, I pay 10 dollars a gallon for fuel.

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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/29/2012 12:21 AM   
narwalrus



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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/29/2012 12:24 AM   
Lunchboxer



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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/29/2012 12:49 AM   
narwalrus



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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/29/2012 4:21 AM   
Nitroaddicted



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

A 2.0 NA ricer with induction kit, manifold, decat, 70mm system and a program (300whp NA at 8000rpm) would take the SS easily and be more reliable. What's more it would still do 25mpg, how's the camaro SS on fuel? I admit it wouldn't look as good (subjective, but the Camaro is a good looking car, no doubt) and it wouldn't make such a nice noise either, but 410hp (no doubt at the fly as well, probably only making 340rwhp) from a 6.2l is shameful. The only thing that saves it is that a brooklyn hobo can afford to own one. Muscle cars...great to look at, but what a waste of fuel.


The zl1 puts out 580 hp and 556 lb ft of torque. And you have your hp numbers messed up. The v6, models put out 323 hp. The ss model puts out 426 hp and. 420 lb ft of torque. And i can add modifications to the SS as well. So your argument is sort of one sided. And i dont really care about gas mileage.

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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/29/2012 6:04 AM   
FahrtAutoRC



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Status: offline 		Yea....but Foxy BOUGHT his.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nitroaddicted


quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

A 2.0 NA ricer with induction kit, manifold, decat, 70mm system and a program (300whp NA at 8000rpm) would take the SS easily and be more reliable. What's more it would still do 25mpg, how's the camaro SS on fuel? I admit it wouldn't look as good (subjective, but the Camaro is a good looking car, no doubt) and it wouldn't make such a nice noise either, but 410hp (no doubt at the fly as well, probably only making 340rwhp) from a 6.2l is shameful. The only thing that saves it is that a brooklyn hobo can afford to own one. Muscle cars...great to look at, but what a waste of fuel.


The zl1 puts out 580 hp and 556 lb ft of torque. And you have your hp numbers messed up. The v6, models put out 323 hp. The ss model puts out 426 hp and. 420 lb ft of torque. And i can add modifications to the SS as well. So your argument is sort of one sided. And i dont really care about gas mileage.



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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/29/2012 6:10 AM   
Nitroaddicted



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quote:

ORIGINAL: FahrtAutoRC

Yea....but Foxy BOUGHT his.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nitroaddicted


quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

A 2.0 NA ricer with induction kit, manifold, decat, 70mm system and a program (300whp NA at 8000rpm) would take the SS easily and be more reliable. What's more it would still do 25mpg, how's the camaro SS on fuel? I admit it wouldn't look as good (subjective, but the Camaro is a good looking car, no doubt) and it wouldn't make such a nice noise either, but 410hp (no doubt at the fly as well, probably only making 340rwhp) from a 6.2l is shameful. The only thing that saves it is that a brooklyn hobo can afford to own one. Muscle cars...great to look at, but what a waste of fuel.


The zl1 puts out 580 hp and 556 lb ft of torque. And you have your hp numbers messed up. The v6, models put out 323 hp. The ss model puts out 426 hp and. 420 lb ft of torque. And i can add modifications to the SS as well. So your argument is sort of one sided. And i dont really care about gas mileage.




You really gonna go there?

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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/29/2012 6:25 AM   
FahrtAutoRC



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nitroaddicted


quote:

ORIGINAL: FahrtAutoRC

Yea....but Foxy BOUGHT his.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nitroaddicted


quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

A 2.0 NA ricer with induction kit, manifold, decat, 70mm system and a program (300whp NA at 8000rpm) would take the SS easily and be more reliable. What's more it would still do 25mpg, how's the camaro SS on fuel? I admit it wouldn't look as good (subjective, but the Camaro is a good looking car, no doubt) and it wouldn't make such a nice noise either, but 410hp (no doubt at the fly as well, probably only making 340rwhp) from a 6.2l is shameful. The only thing that saves it is that a brooklyn hobo can afford to own one. Muscle cars...great to look at, but what a waste of fuel.


The zl1 puts out 580 hp and 556 lb ft of torque. And you have your hp numbers messed up. The v6, models put out 323 hp. The ss model puts out 426 hp and. 420 lb ft of torque. And i can add modifications to the SS as well. So your argument is sort of one sided. And i dont really care about gas mileage.




You really gonna go there?



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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/29/2012 7:24 AM   
Nitroaddicted



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quote:

ORIGINAL: FahrtAutoRC

Pretty sure I just did hahahaha

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nitroaddicted


quote:

ORIGINAL: FahrtAutoRC

Yea....but Foxy BOUGHT his.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nitroaddicted


quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

A 2.0 NA ricer with induction kit, manifold, decat, 70mm system and a program (300whp NA at 8000rpm) would take the SS easily and be more reliable. What's more it would still do 25mpg, how's the camaro SS on fuel? I admit it wouldn't look as good (subjective, but the Camaro is a good looking car, no doubt) and it wouldn't make such a nice noise either, but 410hp (no doubt at the fly as well, probably only making 340rwhp) from a 6.2l is shameful. The only thing that saves it is that a brooklyn hobo can afford to own one. Muscle cars...great to look at, but what a waste of fuel.


The zl1 puts out 580 hp and 556 lb ft of torque. And you have your hp numbers messed up. The v6, models put out 323 hp. The ss model puts out 426 hp and. 420 lb ft of torque. And i can add modifications to the SS as well. So your argument is sort of one sided. And i dont really care about gas mileage.




You really gonna go there?




Well Foxy's argument is biased, still.

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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/29/2012 1:00 PM   
HJJFFFAA



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Status: offline 		I'm pretty sure his viewpoint is mostly skewed by the tax on large displacements over there. I've consistently seen that engines that don't have stupidly high volumetric efficiencies get better mileage. For instance, 2009 Viper vs 2009 Honda S2000. EPA rates highway for the Viper at 22mpg and the 2000 at 25mpg where the Viper is making 600HP and the S2000 only ~240HP. There's also the same model year Corvette Z06 which is rated at 24mpg highway and has been reported by some to near 30MPG with a little effort.

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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/29/2012 1:03 PM   
cumminspower5.9



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nitroaddicted


quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

A 2.0 NA ricer with induction kit, manifold, decat, 70mm system and a program (300whp NA at 8000rpm) would take the SS easily and be more reliable. What's more it would still do 25mpg, how's the camaro SS on fuel? I admit it wouldn't look as good (subjective, but the Camaro is a good looking car, no doubt) and it wouldn't make such a nice noise either, but 410hp (no doubt at the fly as well, probably only making 340rwhp) from a 6.2l is shameful. The only thing that saves it is that a brooklyn hobo can afford to own one. Muscle cars...great to look at, but what a waste of fuel.


The zl1 puts out 580 hp and 556 lb ft of torque. And you have your hp numbers messed up. The v6, models put out 323 hp. The ss model puts out 426 hp and. 420 lb ft of torque. And i can add modifications to the SS as well. So your argument is sort of one sided. And i dont really care about gas mileage.


I'd like to see it hang with the Accent.


Ready!.... Go!


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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/29/2012 1:38 PM   
Foxy



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quote:

ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA

I'm pretty sure his viewpoint is mostly skewed by the tax on large displacements over there. I've consistently seen that engines that don't have stupidly high volumetric efficiencies get better mileage. For instance, 2009 Viper vs 2009 Honda S2000. EPA rates highway for the Viper at 22mpg and the 2000 at 25mpg where the Viper is making 600HP and the S2000 only ~240HP. There's also the same model year Corvette Z06 which is rated at 24mpg highway and has been reported by some to near 30MPG with a little effort.


You're compltely right. I'm not objective, I admit it. 2.0 is considered large displacement here. I pay 900 bucks road tax for the privilege of driving a high powered 2.0. I then pay another 900bucks additional tax per year as 'luxury car tax' because anything oer 1.8 is considered a luxury car. It's completely ridiculous. then I hear you talking about 6l cars and I flip out. At least I'm honest.

But seriously, I hope you guys can get some more efficiency into your engines over the coming years, there is the environment to think about, honestly, I don't mean it in a bad way.

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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/29/2012 2:19 PM   
HJJFFFAA



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy


quote:

ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA

I'm pretty sure his viewpoint is mostly skewed by the tax on large displacements over there. I've consistently seen that engines that don't have stupidly high volumetric efficiencies get better mileage. For instance, 2009 Viper vs 2009 Honda S2000. EPA rates highway for the Viper at 22mpg and the 2000 at 25mpg where the Viper is making 600HP and the S2000 only ~240HP. There's also the same model year Corvette Z06 which is rated at 24mpg highway and has been reported by some to near 30MPG with a little effort.


You're compltely right. I'm not objective, I admit it. 2.0 is considered large displacement here. I pay 900 bucks road tax for the privilege of driving a high powered 2.0. I then pay another 900bucks additional tax per year as 'luxury car tax' because anything oer 1.8 is considered a luxury car. It's completely ridiculous. then I hear you talking about 6l cars and I flip out. At least I'm honest.

But seriously, I hope you guys can get some more efficiency into your engines over the coming years, there is the environment to think about, honestly, I don't mean it in a bad way.

But the big engines actually get pretty good mileage Come on 22MPG highway and 600HP, show me the Ferrari that does that.

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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/29/2012 2:36 PM   
Lunchboxer



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Status: offline 		To me, a better performance measure would probably be the HP / weight (and size) of the engine... !

But obviously there a lot more to it.. how reliable the engine is, etc.

And there's more to the enjoyment of driving than just performance.. to some, the sound is important.. so someone prefer a big V8, while someone prefer a high-revving smaller engine.. while turbo cars might make more power but the exhaust is very much muffled by the turbo, etc. So it really depends on what's important to you.. !

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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/29/2012 2:38 PM   
Foxy



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quote:

ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy


quote:

ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA

I'm pretty sure his viewpoint is mostly skewed by the tax on large displacements over there. I've consistently seen that engines that don't have stupidly high volumetric efficiencies get better mileage. For instance, 2009 Viper vs 2009 Honda S2000. EPA rates highway for the Viper at 22mpg and the 2000 at 25mpg where the Viper is making 600HP and the S2000 only ~240HP. There's also the same model year Corvette Z06 which is rated at 24mpg highway and has been reported by some to near 30MPG with a little effort.


You're compltely right. I'm not objective, I admit it. 2.0 is considered large displacement here. I pay 900 bucks road tax for the privilege of driving a high powered 2.0. I then pay another 900bucks additional tax per year as 'luxury car tax' because anything oer 1.8 is considered a luxury car. It's completely ridiculous. then I hear you talking about 6l cars and I flip out. At least I'm honest.

But seriously, I hope you guys can get some more efficiency into your engines over the coming years, there is the environment to think about, honestly, I don't mean it in a bad way.

But the big engines actually get pretty good mileage Come on 22MPG highway and 600HP, show me the Ferrari that does that.


And I could theoretically get 40mpg out of mine in stock form, will it ever happen? No, I drive my car how it was designed to be driven. Fast. Just like nobody who bought a camaro for the 'right' reasons will be so conservative as to get 22mpg. Sod the ferrari, that's an exotic, several steps of economy below even the muscle car, why don't we take the average fuel economy of a european car as a comparison instead? Would it shock you to hear that most people in Europe won't even look at a car that gets less than 55mpg? Smarts and Hyundai Atos and Kia Ceeds and Diesel Citroens are the order of the day here, and they can circumnavigate the world on a single tank almost.

However, there is a balance, an optimal, and if you ask me, it's between 2 and 3 liters with a turbo. Hell the Nissan GTR is a 3.8 making nearly 600hp with all the limiting turned off. Probably about the same on fuel as the camaro, but I'm just guessing.

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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/29/2012 2:45 PM   
Lunchboxer



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Status: offline 		Foxy, do you like electric cars? Do you see that taking over in Europe since the fuel is more expensive?

A friend of mine has a Chevy Volts.. his said he got 1350 miles or so between the last 2 fuel stops (7.5 gallon).. obviously, it is mostly plugged in.. but do you see more people in Europe buying things like this?

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RE: Hyundai vs. Mercedes C230 - 8/29/2012 2:47 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy


quote:

ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA

I'm pretty sure his viewpoint is mostly skewed by the tax on large displacements over there. I've consistently seen that engines that don't have stupidly high volumetric efficiencies get better mileage. For instance, 2009 Viper vs 2009 Honda S2000. EPA rates highway for the Viper at 22mpg and the 2000 at 25mpg where the Viper is making 600HP and the S2000 only ~240HP. There's also the same model year Corvette Z06 which is rated at 24mpg highway and has been reported by some to near 30MPG with a little effort.


You're compltely right. I'm not objective, I admit it. 2.0 is considered large displacement here. I pay 900 bucks road tax for the privilege of driving a high powered 2.0. I then pay another 900bucks additional tax per year as 'luxury car tax' because anything oer 1.8 is considered a luxury car. It's completely ridiculous. then I hear you talking about 6l cars and I flip out. At least I'm honest.

But seriously, I hope you guys can get some more efficiency into your engines over the coming years, there is the environment to think about, honestly, I don't mean it in a bad way.

But the big engines actually get pretty good mileage Come on 22MPG highway and 600HP, show me the Ferrari that does that.


It is good to see the newer higher powered cars get decent highway mileage. But I've noticed that they always tout the highway MPG, and not city. There's a reason for that - 2013 Camaro SS gets 24 MPG highway, but 16 city.

MPG obviously depends on your point of view (maybe you don't care, and that's fine). But it's a bit funny seeing that all the bragging is about the highway MPG, when the city rate is lousy.

Plus seriously - if I had a camaro SS, do you think I'd really just drive around humbly and efficiently all the time, getting max reported MPG? Doubtful. I'd be busy having too much fun, sucking up gas like no tomorrow - which is exactly the point in a car like that.


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