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OS LA 10 carb - 8/21/2012 4:29 AM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		Ok group would like to change the rear needle setup to a front carb on my LA10 Davis head, really not fond the cheap plastic rear needle setup, cannot even mount the engine on my test stand rear needle assembly interfers with clamp down mount. Checked a TT10 carb, diameter too small, wonder if the older OS 10 FP will fit
is same diameter as front plastic throttle will look around for one and cut off the plastic one from the backplate martin

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/21/2012 7:45 AM   
greggles47


 

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Status: offline 		Martin,

What's the diameter?

I've got carbs for ASP .12 & AP .09 that don't have homes. Both are 9mm diameter.

Regards

Greg

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/21/2012 2:36 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		GREG.... its 8.98mm I just checked my AP hornet conversion and the carb just starts in a couple of rubs with emory cloth at a perfect fit cheers martin
think the ASP a better carby the lean back on the AP needle is a nice feature bottom line either one will work. the ASP needs a screw driver to set
vs just turning the ASP needle

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/22/2012 2:05 AM   
ffkiwi


 

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Status: offline 		Greggles-I don't suppose you've got any ASP 12/15 drawbars floating around spare by any chance?-I picked up 2 ASP 15s last year both minus carb or venturi and drawbar. I can machine up a suitable venturi without much trouble but making a drawbar from scratch is going to be a right pain...............

ChrisM
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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/22/2012 2:16 AM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		Chris Just engines UK is a huge seller of ASP have been for years sure they have them they pride themselves on their parts stock martin

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/22/2012 3:36 AM   
Hobbsy



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Status: offline 		Martin, as carbs go the LA .10 carb is a very good one, you'd be hard pressed to best it.

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/22/2012 6:32 AM   
ffkiwi


 

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Status: offline 		Martin I was in touch with Just Engines last year-they weren't interested in such a tiny order-for two 12/15 drawbars. I'd have had to order other items to come up to their minimum charge and they had nothing else I wanted. It's within my abilities to make them-but it's a pain to do-

ChrisM

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/22/2012 10:56 AM   
greggles47


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ffkiwi

Greggles-I don't suppose you've got any ASP 12/15 drawbars floating around spare by any chance?-I picked up 2 ASP 15s last year both minus carb or venturi and drawbar. I can machine up a suitable venturi without much trouble but making a drawbar from scratch is going to be a right pain...............

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'


Sorry Chris,

I still use the cinch bar - Venturis have the NVA inserted through them. The annular venturis are a bit of an overkill for these - until I need more performance.

If I find any in the next couple of days I'll be in touch.

Alternatively you could get a 4mm screw & grind out a little arc to clear the venturi.

Regards

Greg


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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/22/2012 11:58 AM   
qazimoto


 

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Status: offline 		I find it easier to file an arc into the venturi corresponding with the cinch bar hole and replace the CB with a standard M4 screw and nut.

It's just reversing the normal arrangement.

It's proven completely satisfactory to date.

Ray

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/22/2012 12:26 PM   
Mr Cox



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ffkiwi
making a drawbar from scratch is going to be a right pain...............



Not really, is just a rod with a thread at one end, and a half-moon shape at the center. You need a rod of right diameter, some are around 3.5mm, can't remember the ASP diameter right know. Turn down one end to 3mm and thread it for M3. The center depression can be make with a dremel for instance. The critical thing is to have the correct diameter of the rod for a tight fit in the crank case, otherwise it will suck air that way as it is below the carb and the o-ring seal.

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/22/2012 12:48 PM   
Mr Cox



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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Martin, as carbs go the LA .10 carb is a very good one, you'd be hard pressed to best it.


Are we talking about the same engine? The LA doesn't even have an airbleed-screw for the low end?

The ASP carb is a proper twin needle carb, it doesn't get much better than that...

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/22/2012 2:09 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		Greggles Bad timing I ordered a spare piston liner and rod for the Irvine 53 along with a gasket set and screw sets, last week from JE . had I known then I would have gotten you a couple of drawbars for the ASP and could have mailed them to you when I got the order martin

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/22/2012 2:30 PM   
Hobbsy



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Status: offline 		Allow me to rephrase, the LA .10 carb is a proper carb because it does its job properly. The LA .10 is a fine running engine.

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/22/2012 4:09 PM   
Mr Cox



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Status: online 		I have several OS .10 FSR and FP engines, and they both benefit from an adjustment on the low end. It is a little uppsetting that they put an adjustable airbleed on the .15 only, when the dimensions are the same....

Diesel engines are not any different from glow in that respect and PAW engines also run better with a low-end adjustment.

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/22/2012 9:33 PM   
ffkiwi


 

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Status: offline 		OK Greggles-I suspected that would be your answer-and probably the same reason why the original owner hung on to the drawbars-the engines are usually supplied with the R/C carb-I've never seen a 'factory' C/L ASP 12/15.

Mr Cox-have you ever TRIED to make a drawbar? Yes- in this example it's only a piece of 3mm steel-with a 3mm thread at one end-but the crescent cutout has to be very accurate both in depth and location-relative to the thread-and you have to cut the thread before you machine the crescent. Easy to describe the process-a lot harder to do in practice-and requiring a lot of setup on the lathe/mill-or a very accurate and steady hand with a file. Yes I can do it-but I'd rather not-and the time, effort and aggravation involved against the low cost of the actual ASP spare part is barely justifiable.

ChrisM
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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/22/2012 9:53 PM   
Mr Cox



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Status: online 		Yes, I have made draw bars and there is very little to it, but of course you can also buy them. They are a little oddly sized though on the Conquest and the GZ (CS) .061 for instance. You can make them out of brass if you prefer as it is easy to machine. Use a lathe to get the diameter right, then make a cresent and after that you cut both ends to length (length is not critical as long as they are long enough) and thread one end and stop before you reach the cresent.

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/22/2012 10:10 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		Hobbsy indeed the engine runs fine with the rear carb, but I can use a shorter engine mount and get the engine closer to the firewall and do like the idle mix adjustment on the ASP carbs martin

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/22/2012 11:06 PM   
ffkiwi


 

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Status: offline 		How do you stop the piece twisting when you're cutting the thread if you cut the crescent first-the forces involved are quite considerable-the shear forces involved in thread cutting is likely to twist the crescent portion out of line?

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/22/2012 11:50 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		Chris just an idea you may be able to eliminate the drawbar completely at the rear side of the intake 45 degrees from the drawbar drill a hole that will take say a 2.5mm
tap and use a short allen cap screw to lock it ( the carb) much easier martin

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/22/2012 11:52 PM   
ffkiwi


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: qazimoto

I find it easier to file an arc into the venturi corresponding with the cinch bar hole and replace the CB with a standard M4 screw and nut.

It's just reversing the normal arrangement.

It's proven completely satisfactory to date.

Ray



Actually Ray-on reflection that's a good idea-and if you added a jet hole you've got a tangential feed setup-and the OS Pet NVA is on 3mm diameter-so would fit nicely-the only down side I see would be the needle would be very close to the prop. I must go digging in my OS spares box and see what I can find..............

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/22/2012 11:59 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		RAYS IDEA GOOD TOO MARTIN

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/23/2012 2:09 AM   
greggles47


 

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Status: offline 		Looks like Ray's answer is the one that gets the marks for those of us without milling facility.

The cut Ray describes can just as easily be made when you're turning the venturi, as hand filing an already made venturi.

the other drawback of trying to make a cinch bolt would be how much is it weakened by cutting away half the diameter? Is high tensile steel required to make a job that will last in normal usage?

Go Ray!

Greg

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/23/2012 3:10 AM   
ffkiwi


 

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Status: offline 		I don't know Greg-but I'll have a crack this weekend, using some 1/8 K&S brass rod from the local model shop. I found-on checking (for the life of me I don't know why I didn't do this earlier!) that the ASP21 uses the same size drawbar as the smaller 12/15 engines. I now have-courtesy my ASP21-a pattern to copy.You could be right about material strength-you don't see many brass or alumium drawbars (though the K&B Sportser series uses a brass one-that that is two-piece). Ideally for the ASP15, the crescent should be milled using a 9mm diameter milling cutter to match the ID of the intake boss-but 9mm is an oddball size with no imperial equivalent (OK I can buy a Chinese one on Ebay-but that's a lot of expense for two drawbars!)-I've checked my Dremel cutter (which seems to be Mr Cox's method of producing the cutout) at 8mm diameter-so it's either that and a bit of filing-or use a 10mm mill-and accept a bit of slack-the threading is no problem with a tailstock dieholder-which guarantees a true axial thread, unlike hand threading.
As for venturis I have still to decide on suitable sizes-these engines (ASP 15) are in common use in New Zealand by the C/L fraternity (lots) and by us FFers (a few)-it is probably not coincidental that the FF users of ASP 15s are better known for their C/L flying-I believe (not being a C/l flier................yet!) that they're popular for Slow Combat, sleeved down with fairly small venturis, of course for F/F use they're running a bladder and as big a hole as you can get away with.

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'



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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/23/2012 6:43 AM   
Mr Cox



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ffkiwi

How do you stop the piece twisting when you're cutting the thread if you cut the crescent first-the forces involved are quite considerable-the shear forces involved in thread cutting is likely to twist the crescent portion out of line?

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'


You can hold it in a lathe on the correct side of the crescent, some draw pins will also require a reduction of the diameter at the threads so that can be made at the same time.

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RE: OS LA 10 carb - 8/23/2012 6:45 AM   
Mr Cox



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quote:

ORIGINAL: AMB

Chris just an idea you may be able to eliminate the drawbar completely at the rear side of the intake 45 degrees from the drawbar drill a hole that will take say a 2.5mm
tap and use a short allen cap screw to lock it ( the carb) much easier martin


You would still have to seal the hole for the draw bar, as most carbs only has a seal above the draw-bar. I have only seen a seal bellow the draw-bar on the MDS engines.

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