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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/26/2012 6:50 PM   
drube



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Status: offline 		Some people are on a fixed income because of some sort of disability and are not able to get a second job and/or not allowed to earn extra money. So glad you get a kick out of it...


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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/26/2012 7:45 PM   
jester_s1


 

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Status: offline 		If ARF prices continue to rise it will eventually become profitable for a manufacturer to move from China to somewhere else with cheap labor. Mississippi would be my guess.

Barring that possibility, the motivation will get stronger to produce cheaper products, which means a new wave of shoddy built and ugly ARF's and RTF's will hit the market. If you think about ways to cheapen your typical Ugly Stick or trainer, you can remove wingtips, not round off anything, use as many squares and straight lines as possible, keep the trim scheme down to 2 colors and very simple, and use more vacuum molded plastic. If that happens, we'll have top tier ARF's and low-end ARF's, which will then cause RCU to exceed its bandwidth limitations and shut down as newbies start thread after thread about trying to get the cheapies to fly right and every experienced pilot has to chime in and bash the junky planes.

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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/26/2012 8:02 PM   
acerc



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Status: offline 		Don't worry , one day he'll be on SS and understand. Of course unless thing's keep going south, then a whole lot more people will understand a whole lot more.


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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/26/2012 8:12 PM   
tailskid



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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/26/2012 8:15 PM   
blw



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Status: offline 		Income is indeed fixed when you and/or your wife retires. You find that you start budgeting from a different frame of view. Part time jobs are available, yes. Health issues and age discrimination cuts down on them being a reality for some people when you consider the age most are able to retire.

In any case, you have a point about working people too. A part time job in a hobby shop would be a good thing. My wife and I are retired except for my part time job of instructing a class on building and flying r/c planes to college students.

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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/26/2012 8:25 PM   
acerc



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Status: offline 		blw, I am retired. Did so at an early age. Been retired for five year's now. When I first retired I though I had it made but over the last couple year's not so much. Now if I knew I would only live to say 60 it would be a different story. But one has to plan for much longer.


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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/26/2012 9:13 PM   
acerc



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Status: offline 		Well maybe one should not say" I really get a kick out of', if that's not what one mean's.
I am one of those on a fixed income. At the beginning it was more than sufficient, now not so much. And I am not physically capable of doing anything about it. Not complaining just saying.
And just for the record I AM NOT on SS or any other kind of government retirement or assistance. All self earned, self saved, and self maintained.


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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/26/2012 9:52 PM   
KitBuilder



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Status: offline 		ARF prices foam and the woodies, for example the new 60 size dirty biridi ....will alway be lower than kitbuilding due to economies of scale. The ARF issue is finding the right product / subject to allow large those large economies. However... with mass production comes blandness.

Remember when you would go to the field and see 25 planes and they were all different. On a Sat today at my club there must be 5 Yak-ish type electrics. 5 extra type electrics. a couple gasser yak-ish types the rest are mass produced foamies.... zzzzzzzzzzzz. Folks know when I arrive wonder whats coming out of the trunk

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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/26/2012 11:07 PM   
jaav


 

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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/27/2012 2:08 AM   
PropsnWings


 

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Status: offline 		I my self have wondered and pondered this same question..... and my guess is the industry will continue to change and evolve to meet the customer demads.

As far as a foamy, I own one, from Twisted Hobbies, but it is nothing like a stick built plane to fly.  The foam flexes way too much, and very limited on what kind of a day you can actually fly it and enjoy it.

There are still many ARF's out there that are priced as a bargain IMO, as compared to building it yourself.  However, I would still rather build myself, and I can only hope the change and evolution of the hobby, brings us back to that eventually.  

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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/27/2012 2:12 AM   
PropsnWings


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: acerc

Well maybe one should not say" I really get a kick out of', if that's not what one mean's.
I am one of those on a fixed income. At the beginning it was more than sufficient, now not so much. And I am not physically capable of doing anything about it. Not complaining just saying.
And just for the record I AM NOT on SS or any other kind of government retirement or assistance. All self earned, self saved, and self maintained.


Hey Ace, hows the Ultimate flying?  I havent started mine yet, still working on a couple other projects.  



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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/27/2012 4:50 AM   
jester_s1


 

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Status: offline 		Kitbuilder- I know exactly what you mean, and share the same frustration. There's a lot of IMAC guys in my club and when one has a plane that really flies well two or three others go buy the exact same one with the same trim scheme and everything so they can get setup and trimming tips from the first guy. It makes for good competition and good flying, but it's just not exciting to see 3 big gasser Extras that look the same sitting there by each other. I have one kit built plane that was built in the mid 70's. (let's see a Chinese made arf last 35 years!) I put the most obnoxious trim scheme I could think of on it that still looked cool just so that there wouldn't ever be another one like it. It always gets compliments and flies nice to boot.

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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/27/2012 11:39 AM   
acerc



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quote:

ORIGINAL: PropsnWings


quote:

ORIGINAL: acerc

Well maybe one should not say" I really get a kick out of', if that's not what one mean's.
I am one of those on a fixed income. At the beginning it was more than sufficient, now not so much. And I am not physically capable of doing anything about it. Not complaining just saying.
And just for the record I AM NOT on SS or any other kind of government retirement or assistance. All self earned, self saved, and self maintained.


Hey Ace, hows the Ultimate flying?  I havent started mine yet, still working on a couple other projects.  





Outstanding. And so far, being an ARF, holding up well.


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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/27/2012 2:50 PM   
raptureboy


 

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Status: offline 		Have you checked the kit prices lately? Tower has raised their kit prices some 20% or more. Balsa seems to be the material of choice for windmills now and fuel and shipping have risen as well. I believe there is a bigger profit margin for vendors in selling an arf than a kit. Even with the extras one would buy to finish a kit, there is just not the profit margin in the kits. The economy of scale for building arf's is just too great. If kits were where the money was you can be sure they would be selling kits like crazy, but most of all the old kits were die cut and the dies wear out and to make new ones for something that does not sell well is foolish. Those who love to build will build no matter what and those who love to fly will buy arfs and they are just as happy having the same plane as they are having the same car as their neighbor. Nothing wrong with that. Seems there are more threads on here now about the kits vs arfs that there are build or assemble threads. Those who are in the hobby business to make money will follow the trends to stay in business, and I don't blame them one bit. Would you do less? Time to move on now boys, the world is changing and the real reason you don't have time to finish a kit is because you spend to much time on here complaining about arfs. But more kits + finish more kits, = sell more kits


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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/27/2012 2:51 PM   
PropsnWings


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: acerc


quote:

ORIGINAL: PropsnWings


quote:

ORIGINAL: acerc




Hey Ace, hows the Ultimate flying?  I havent started mine yet, still working on a couple other projects.  





Outstanding. And so far, being an ARF, holding up well.


That is good to hear.  I know had they made this in a kit, I would have jumped on doing it that way.  I love to build / mod / call it my own etc. 



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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/27/2012 3:07 PM   
acerc



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quote:

ORIGINAL: PropsnWings


quote:

ORIGINAL: acerc


quote:

ORIGINAL: PropsnWings


quote:

ORIGINAL: acerc




Hey Ace, hows the Ultimate flying?  I havent started mine yet, still working on a couple other projects.  





Outstanding. And so far, being an ARF, holding up well.


That is good to hear.  I know had they made this in a kit, I would have jumped on doing it that way.  I love to build / mod / call it my own etc. 





Only reason I started with it was because a fellow club member offered it up rediculously cheap.
Granted I did replace it once because of self stupidity. I as well rather build, and mostly from plans.


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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/27/2012 3:50 PM   
erik valdez


 

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Status: offline 		Im not sure about you guys but have you even considered what it is you are getting when you buy one of these arfs? Who really makes it? Where did it really come from, is it an original part or just the same old thing with a few minor changes. Here in the United States if you buy a part for your Cadillac, Chevy, Gmc, or Hummer chances are it is the exact same part and it fits all of these makes. Its just kinda understood that all of these use parts from the same assy line on their vehicles. Well the Chines arf makers may be doing the same thing, case in point how many diff makes of arf can you name? all of these fit perfectly with only anti rotion holes modified.



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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/27/2012 4:59 PM   
rgburrill



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Status: offline 		When ARF prices exceed kit prices the normal ARF buyers will probably do what most competiton fliers do - pay someone else to build a kit for them

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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/27/2012 5:37 PM   
GerKonig


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SkyPilot101

I always wonder what will happen when arf prices eventually climb up to the same level as building yourself ?

Well, I'd like to think that when this happens, some bright, intelligent, young man of natural origin will realize that the price advantage the aisan manufactures had because of slave wages will have evaporated, and that it is actually profitable to manufacture ARF's in the good old USA. His ARF line will be superior because of his experience as a accomplished modeler himself. In short time his line of ARF's will burn down the competition from aisa, and his prices will actually fall due to increased demand and good business tactics.

Who Is Going to Step Up to the Plate?



As soon as I find someone that wants to work for $1 per hour I let you know:-)

On a more serious note. Habby Lobby re-released new and improved kits and ARFs (Telemaster line). They had run out of stock, and when my in-law needed a replacement part for his Telemaster he was told that they rere coming out with a US made line of kits and ARFS. Sure enough, shorlty after, the price went up, and they had a new line. I would have to confirm, but if thrue, it would mean we have an US based arf maker... (kit makers there are many)

Gerry

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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/27/2012 5:39 PM   
GerKonig


 

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When ARF prices exceed kit prices the normal ARF buyers will probably do what most competiton fliers do - pay someone else to build a kit for them



Not just competition builders. I know a lot of people that do that. Many jet pilots do that. They have more fun at the field than at the shop. Something some will never understand...:-)



Gerry

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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/27/2012 5:46 PM   
acerc



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Status: offline 		Gerry, I completely agree. I have three in the shop that I'm building for other's. 
The real bottom line is do what make's you happy. That's what I do, whether it's a foamie, Kit, ARF, RTC, simply because that's all that matter's


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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/27/2012 7:26 PM   
NorfolkSouthern


 

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Status: offline 		This is not gonna happen: On Tower Hobbies, the price of their Ultimate Bipe 40 is now $160.00: A $40.00 increase from $120.00. Their Christen Eagle ARF, comparable to the Ultimate Bipe, is priced at $200.00, only a $40.00 difference from the Ultimate Bipe kit. Since all the covering materials, glues, and accessories have to be purchased when completing the Ultimate kit, the cost of completion far exceeds that of the Christen Eagle ARF. In fact, you can purchase one ARF, and then buy a second ARF for spare parts for the cost of building just one kit.

And another sad twist of fate: I have a friend who is into large scale. He has enough money to pay a professional to build his ARFs and kits, most of which are 1/4 to 1/2 scale. Some of his planes have multi-cylinder glow and gas engines. He recently told me that foamies and park flyers can be purchased cheaply, and will perform the same as his large models. Plus, there is no field required when a parking lot will do. His observation is this: Electric foamies are the wave of the future and kit building will become an obsolete skill. It's a tough reality indeed.

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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/27/2012 9:10 PM   
JohnAsaPrice


 

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Status: offline 		I love to build. I noticed that ARFs are now much cheaper to buy than the materials I use to build.
Does it matter to me? Not much. I have considered buying a few balsa ARFs just to try out an airframe, but I will still build and fly from plans and kits.
To me, building is as much a part of the hobby as flying. There is no better feeling than launching and landing something I build myself!

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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/27/2012 9:25 PM   
erik valdez


 

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Status: offline 		I guess my point didnt get across, I bought all these parts separately, they all fit nicley and are going to work together. Price:

Airframe-65.00
Wings-99.00
Stabs-free from local member
Cowling-40.00
Canopy-90.00
Gear 65.00

All of these parts are new except the fuse, that is a 35% Extra 260 for $359.00 how can you go wrong. Yes it took a little work, but less than building, and the funny thing is not all the parts are from thre same manufacturer. So I think before the price of arfs exceeds the price of building we will find that spare parts are now so accessible that for a reasoble price you can piece one together, much like the auto industry is now.

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RE: What happens if arf and kit building prices meet? - 8/27/2012 10:40 PM   
Bozarth


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: foodstick

I always wonder what will happen when arf prices eventually climb up to the same level as building yourself ?



Didn't the prices meet a few years ago on the other side of the curve when arf prices were coming down?

Kurt


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