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Meister 109 rehab - 8/25/2012 8:03 PM

a65l

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coming up on a year or so ago, I was working in Savannah, TN and headed up to the Nashville swap meet. A very nice setup, right at the fairgrounds, and as is not ususual I didn't get away clean. I bought a Meister 109. Now I'm not a biig 109 guy, I prefer the 190 myself (Round engines dontchaknow) but I couldn't pass the bargin and it looked to be in good shape. I had a good look over the airplane and found some things I didn't like, and some I did, and decided it would make a worth project to refurb it. I'm actually going to try and do it in two parts, first it going to be getting the mechanical systems in and working, and test fly it, and then if I'm still sufficiiently motivated, cosmetic restoration.
The airplane appears to be a sort of a "K" model, but I'm going to lure my 109 expert buddy over with Goulash and Spaetzle and get his opinion. I've never seen the paint scheme on it anywhere before, but 109's aren't my forte. It does appear to have been crashed at one time or another, there's a lot of shattered wood glued back together, but it seems solid enough. It obviously had a magneto engine on it, the firewall wasn't drilled but the existing bolt holes had been filled with dowels, so I assume the previous owner was getting ready for a re-engine project of his own. It came with retracts, some original Fun-Scale retracts as supplied by Meister. They seem servicable, the only issue I have with them is the struts appear to be pinned in with some screwy geometry, but I'll address than when I get to that stage.
Pics.... somewhere in there is the plane in my van on the way home from the swap meet. It's a beast, but the fuse without engine is suprisingly light. I took it down to the Syblazer's field and put 'er together to get some pics. Not a bad looking plane, but I'm not sure how scale the wing bulges are....... It has the split flaps, but the actuation system is one servo with a bellcrank linkage. I beleive that will become two servos. The elevators are driven off a single servo also, but that may have to stay being as the other options require major surgery of the fuse. I would also like to set up a scale tailwheel, but that I think falls into the cosmetic category.

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 8/25/2012 8:28 PM

a65l

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So after some prioritizing and much thinking I got started today. I acquired a ZDZ-80 engine from the marketplace here, seems like a good all around choice for the plane. I do need to find a different style muffler, the wrap around pitts that came with it won't work. (it should show up in the marketplace in a couple of days). So unless I can find something local here from one of my club buds, looks like a call to Bennett is in order. I also got a spinner from Gene Barton, a very nice piece. I did get a spinner with the airplane, but it appeared as the prop holes had been cut with tin snips and the backing plate was a little warped so it's going in the scrap bin. Or I'll make an anti spy satellite helmet with it. But with the engine and spinner in hand, I can now mount the engine.
I got my trusty ladder, and duck taped a piece of 2x6 over the top rung. Hanging the fuse vertical, I was able to set the engine on the firewall and install the cowl. Top it off with the spinner backplate, and I can move the engine around to my heart's content to get alignment as perfect as I possibly can. Then I removed the spinner backplate, the cowl, and marked around the standoff blocks I had made. They had previously been marked and drilled with the engine mounting holes. Removing the fuse from the latter, I lined up the marks on the blocks and made some pilot holes.
But wait... one of the blocks seems to be crooked. Nuts. I downloaded and printed off an engine mounting template for the '80. There were existing center lines drawn on the firewall. Placing my trust in the previous builder, I lined up the mount template, and made some allowances for where the marks were I had made a minute ago. Drilled up some holes, slid the engine back on with bolts, and the alignment looks spot on. Whew. I hate that part of building or assembling an airplane.
Next it was on to making a hole for the carb. It's going to poke thru a bit, typical for a rear carb. A bunch of plywood dust later and I have a carb shaped hole in the firewall.

Now it's off to Ace to get some 2 1/2" 1/4-20 bolts and locknuts, a bunch of washers and some fibreglass resin. I plan on laying a ply or two across the backside of the firewall. I really don't think I took that much strength out of if, it appears to be 3/8" plywood, but what the heck, can't hurt.

I included a picture of how the elevator linkages are split. Personally, I would prefer to have twin servos with twin pushrods. But that would require either a lot longer drill bit than I have or some exploratory surgery in the aft fuselage. Servos in the stabs would be an option also, but would also require surgery to route wires. The existing linkage works, and is relatively slop free, but it's tight and requires a lot of effort ot operate. At least there's a fairly large servo in there....

Updates as the situation warrants.....

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 8/26/2012 2:22 AM

STUKA BARRY

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Amazing how that plane ended up in Tenn. I saw it in Southern GA. I looked at it hard and decided it was'nt worth the $500 for all the work to get it looking decent. Good-luck with it.

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 8/26/2012 6:59 AM

ho2zoo

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I also saw that plane for sale at the Perry swapmeet ( I think ). And I too looked at it real hard, but I was put off by the square bulges on top of the wing. I kind of liked the desert paint scheme, but I have never seen a Bf-109 with a wing like that. Ah, well, I ended up buying an ESM Me-110. Glad it found a home! I'll be watching your progress, Good luck!

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 8/26/2012 12:03 PM

a65l

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I wondered about the wing bulges also, but they look fairly symmetrical and are close in to the root so hopefully they don't have a major effect on how it flies.

And I, too, walked away from it at $500 but I guess he was getting tired of toting it around, and took a lower offer....

Andy

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 8/27/2012 2:12 AM

a65l

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A little more work on the engine, still needs some spacing and it seems to have some up thrust. Or perhaps the cowling isn't fitting correctly. I'll ahve to take some measurements from the spinner backplate to the firewall and see. But will be easy enough to fix with more washers. I'm going to have to do some mods to the cowl, of course, close up one side and open the other. I'm debating making a new cowl, or shopping around for a fiberglass one, but I think I'll leave it for now and worry about it in the cosmetic phase. Threw the spinner on just to get an idea.
I put some fiberglass reinforcement inside the firewall, it probablly dosen't need it but what the heck. I'm sure its going to need a little weight and it can't hurt, right? Next time I'll get some real resin instead of using 30 min epoxy. I barely got the cloth on and wetted before the resin went nuclear and melted the cup I mixed it in. But it cured up good and hard, and the cloth is adhered well so I think I got away with it.

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 8/28/2012 4:23 PM

a65l

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I really wish I could go back and edit the name of the thread...... oops.

So one of the issues I have to deal with is the cowl. This plane was built with a completely removable cowling, in two pieces. And not really in a way that makes sense to me, but I'm sure it made perfect sense when the plane had its original engine. What I'd like to do is to build the cowl like everybody else seems too, where the top of the cowling is a permanent part of the fuse and the lower cowl is removable, but that seems to be a little more work than I want to do right now. So I'll just deal with the original cowl. Being as I have to cut out the opposite side for the muffler, I'm going to make it one piece. It's not the best option, and its going to add weight to the front of the airplane, but my guess is that with the ZDZ up front I'll be adding weight anyway.
At this rate I'm going to have to invest in a belt sander and jigsaw......

So at this point I've got it all one piece, and finishing it up is going to wait untill I have the muffler on the engine, and some finishing cloth and resin on hand.

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 8/28/2012 8:07 PM

91zulu

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Just a note, you WILL be adding a hell of a lot of weight up front maybe any where from 3 to 5 lbs. So don`t skimp on beefing up the cowl or what ever else you need to do up front. Up front of this plane is not the place to be worried about weight, because here is the thing, when all is done and you find that you have to add pounds of weight to that cowl in order to balance you would then have to be sure that the cowl is solidly attached and will not fall off from the weight. OR plan on building a ballast box that will extend out over the engine. I have this plane with a Sachs 5.8 and may still have to add weight much less a ZDZ 80. I see you could be adding 6 lbs up front. Build that cowl like you want it to be 50 cal. proof.

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 8/28/2012 10:46 PM

wingspar

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You can edit the name. Just hit the edit button on your first post and change the 100 to, well maybe 109?

Dave N

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 8/28/2012 11:14 PM

a65l

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Thanks Dave.

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 8/29/2012 12:10 AM

lrb75

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The K model had different bulges than the other models of 109 but they weren't shaped quite like yours. Hmmmmm

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 8/29/2012 3:07 AM

a65l

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Yeah, it's kind of a mutt. But those wing bulges are functional, they allow the retracts to come up all the way. It should have also have bulges on the sides of the fuse to clear the guns but they're not there either. Maybee in the cosemtic phase...

So I'm gonn set the fuse aside for a little while and do some work to the wings. My major concern is the flap actuation system. IT uses a very small servo and a sloppy linkage. So I think I'm going to just use two servos, one for each surface. I'm rapidly using up all the channels on my 10c, but I think it'll all work out in the end.

So in pic one you can see the old flap linkage. One other problem is that the inboard flap servo is rotated 90 degrees from the rotation of the flap. It's probablly not an issue, and I considered turning the servo to lay on its side, but I think I'm just going to leave it where it is and use a ball link to take up the motion. Guess that rates another trip to the hobby shop to get a smaller ball link. The outboard flap was actuated via linkage and bellcrank from the inboard servo, but I think I'm just going to use another servo out there. Just to make things a complicated as possible, I'm going to mount that servo to a hatch. I considered doing that for the inboard servo as well, and may still wind up doing it that way. Still need to do the other side, and fab up some new linkages, but we're well on the way. I'm going to leave the alieron servos alone, maybee make some new hatches for them but otherwise they seem fine.

Next step landing gear. The plane came with fun-tracts, as supplied by Meister back in the day, and I don't see any reason not to reuse them. Especially since that means not having to make new landing gear mount plates.....

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 8/31/2012 2:11 PM

a65l

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I said I wasn't going to do any cosmetic stuff but sometimes things just happen. I was at a buddy's house to use his belt sander. I got a new spar with the airplane, but it needed some abrasive 'lovin to fit. He wound up doing all the work (thanks Mark for that!) and I wound up standing around looking at my fuselage, which happened to be sitting next to his Meister 109's fuselage. We both agreed that the oil cooler had to go.

There's a pic of the old wing spar. Nothing wrong there, right? I actually considered gluing some carbon strips on the top and bottom and flying like that but good sense got the better of me.
I decided to follow Mark's lead and make the oil cooler removable. There is a good sized space underneath, if Ineed to move batteries up front of place ballast it will make a good mounting location. Plus if it gets damaged again repairing it will be a lot easier if I can remove it from the plane. Also, I found a broken stringer...... so not entirely cosmetic
I went the brute force route and made it from thick balsa. Then I Moved the whole operation outside to commence sanding..... I applied some more glue to hold it all together, and will fine finish sand it and smooth it out today. I hope. Then a little sheeting, and some putty to fair it in, and we're done.
Last pic is the fuel tank mount, it's going to hang from there. I would rather have it sitting on the mount but then I won't be able to insert it in teh fuselage.
The spinner is getting worked over as we speak, another good friend of mine is balancing teh backplate and doing all the cutting and drilling. So as long as I can come up with a muffler, I should have a completed plane by the following weekend, and hopefully have a maiden report.

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 9/3/2012 1:00 AM

FireBee

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Andy, thanks for the call. What a deal. You have done a lot of work so far. Zdz-80 will fly it nice.

I have not seen any of the 109's in this particular scheme. I checked wings pallets for Me-109k, and page 1 has a top view of the wing for correct shape and page 3 has a "red tulip" paint scheme like Mark's if want to be similar. 28 paint schemes of the 109K. They appears to be winter 44-45.
Link: http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/459/2/0
I'll check my books next.

Second pt. Stuka Barry is your point of contact about the 1/3 scale Fokker D-VIII. I think Barry's is Glenn Torrance but check.

See you at the club meeting.

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 9/3/2012 1:42 AM

FireBee

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Andy, your close with a mutt. Looking thru several books no paint scheme like that.
Moreover it has a mix of features as well. Lower radiators are way to far forward. Notice the panel line on the radiator. That should be where the flap line is.

Looking at my best German book Warplanes of the Third Reich, by William Green, your plane has features of nothing Inparticular. Top wing for F did not have wheel blisters, Both G and K did but where very small and shaped to hide only the part of the wheel that would protrudes through. The H model has these type of top wing blisters but they are about 3/4 narrower. But the wing shape for the H was very different. It was an ""Immediate programme" to make high altitude fighter for 32-37k feet. they split the wings and added a constant chord wing expanding the span from about 32 feet to 43 ft 6 inches. The wheel base thus was also very wide as it remained with the wing panels. I can bring book Thursday night if you like.

So you have mutt, but you can do whatever you want to it. Looks like you are well on your way.

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 9/3/2012 4:21 PM

a65l

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I had that book, Warplanes of the Third Reich, for many years, but lost it in the last flood. It is a great reference, and a great read,as there are some very interesting stories about development, test flights, etc etc.

Not a lot of advancement on the front, lots of sanding and glassing and epoxying though. I couldn't get ahold of any finishing resin, so I wound up using nothing more than thinned down 30 minute epoxy for the 'glass covering. It came out fairly well, although it's painfully obvious that I haven't done it very much. The oil cooler came out fairly well, I still need to plank the fuselage to fill in the gaps, but that will have to wait untill later on. Labor day duties intervene. The servo hatches are all done, although I'm still not sure I'm not going to modify the inboard flap so that the servo mounts in the hatch. The cowling is mostly done, although once I get the engine mounted and get the B&B style muffler installed I'm sure there will be more modifying.
Jack Smith balanced the spinner and backplate, and did all machine work that he does so well. He said that the backplate was in perfect balance as received, a credit to Gene Barton.
Then, as I see it,
Leak test and mount the fuel tank
Make and mount the switch panel
Hinge the cover over the switch panel
Figure out where the batteries are going, and verify the CG as well
Mount the air tank for the retracts
Mount the retract valve
Throttle linkage
Choke linkage
Put it all together
Run the engine
Paint spinner
Test the retracts
Verify all the throws
Go over the plane with a fine tooth comb
Fly........
And if all goes well, down the road, I'll do it all again.

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 9/3/2012 5:24 PM

Mk23socom

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Dude, this thing looked pretty hammered when you started. I applaud your efforts so far and have been keeping up with what you have been doing.. It's starting to take a much nicer shape now.. I look forward to seeing more and hearing about your successful flights with it when the time comes! Keep up the good work!

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 9/5/2012 1:41 AM

a65l

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Seems like I did a lot today but not much to show for it... primed some areas, and sorting out the controls and radio setup. Turns out that my flap setup was all screwed up, and I had to go back and re-do some installation of some of the servos. Then, it turns out that one of the alieron servos wouldn't hold center, and the other one didn't work at all. Sooo, off to the LHS to pick up some new servos. Then, while the alieron servos were out, I discovered that the servo mounts were made out of lite ply. They were sufficient for I don't know how many years, but I don't like lite ply as structural wood, so I had to make new ones. And that required makign new linkages as well. And I discovered why the one alieron servo didn't work as well. Guess there's a lesson for me, always pull the wires and check them out. Hopefully tomorrow the engine will get mounted, perhaps a propellor or two will show up in the mail, one step closer to a re-maiden. Oh, and I still need to find out where the CG is... no plans dontcha know...

Oh almost forgot, painted the spinner.. nice and simple.

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 9/5/2012 3:20 AM

Black Drape

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Hey a65L

You didn't mention what size BF109 you have, but if it is the 84 inch, the CG is 4 1/2 to 5 inches behind the leading edge at the fuselage. I just gto the plans and am going to start this as my winter project, so I will be following your rebuild and will probably have some questions as you go.

Hope this helps
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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 9/5/2012 3:23 AM

Mk23socom

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Got my Email then Ron??..with the mention of the ZDZ 80 and Sachs 5.8.. I have to guess that this is the big boy at 100"..

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 9/5/2012 4:59 AM

Black Drape

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Hey Kirby

Got it.

Ron

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 9/5/2012 5:45 AM

glazier808

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4Kirby.....

Dink, dink, dink, dink....dink, dink, dink, dink

COWBELL man!

Dink, dink , dink, dink......dink dink, dink, dink

LOL

Casey

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 9/5/2012 7:03 AM

Mk23socom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: glazier808

4Kirby.....

Dink, dink, dink, dink....dink, dink, dink, dink

COWBELL man!

Dink, dink , dink, dink......dink dink, dink, dink

LOL

Casey

... I got a fever..and the only prescription.. is more cowbell!!

I put on my socks in the morning one at a time, just like you.. only after I put them on, I make gold records!

LOL, nice Casey, that was well timed!!

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 9/5/2012 1:52 PM

a65l

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Sheesh. It is indeed the 100" 109. I think I saw on someone's build thread that he had a CG marked at 5-6" I guess behind either the leading edge of the wing or the bulkhead immediately in front of the wing.

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RE: Meister 109 rehab - 9/5/2012 3:58 PM

91zulu

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It is between 5 & 6. You find the sweet spot that is good for you with in that range.

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