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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 7:19 PM   
JohnP2



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I agree the two most overrated "challenges" with nitro are fuel costs and tuning. Tuning really is like riding a bike. Once you know what to look/hear for, it's a piece of cake. I imagine I spend less than 2 minutes per week tuning.

Regarding fuel costs...again I don't get it. I buy Losi fuel 20% and pay just over $20.00 per gallon at my LHS. It's an added expense, sure but when I consider what I've spent on my cars per category- -fuel is toward the bottom of the bar graph.

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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 7:54 PM   
asmund


 

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Those electric dragster videos just illustrates how cool nitro is. Those were the most booooring dragster videoes ever

Take away the roaring thunder and half the fun is gone, same with rc-cars too

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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 8:07 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: asmund

Those electric dragster videos just illustrates how cool nitro is. Those were the most booooring dragster videoes ever

Take away the roaring thunder and half the fun is gone, same with rc-cars too



Exactly!!



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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 8:14 PM   
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while we are on the topic of tuning....  I have recently revised my nitro 1/8 ofna with a .21 force 3.5cc engine.   Now, I just replaced the fuel, fuel line, glow plug and that is it after 3 yrs of not touching it.

How do I know what to tune on the engine?  It runs good....I believe....   once I start it and gradually give her gas to full speed (while holding it).....it will get up to full speed and then I can stop it....set it down and it will run like a champ.

Now..I am a novice with tuning.... I have not tuned it in 10 yrs.  It seems to run fine..but what would I look for in running quality and at what point do I tune it? 

    I know once I start up the engine and if I were to give it full gas right away....it would bog down and quick...that is why I hold the bottom and gradually work up the throttle to full speed upon initial start up...

advice appreciated as always.   Chuck

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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 8:19 PM   
yakfish



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy


quote:

ORIGINAL: yakfish

It will be a LONG time before the internal combustion egine is completely replaced. I won't be in the lifetime of a any of us here on the forum right now. Those who say nitro is easier are...well... wrong. I have nothing against nitro at all. I still have a couple out in the garage right now sitting alongside my brushless cars. But electric IS easier sorry but these are the facts. I just came in from doing a few 90-100MPH passes out on the empty street near my house a few minutes ago. I can't do that with my nitros. I do love the sound and smell of a nitro and tuning makes if feel more like a real hobby and less like I am playing with toys, but I have nearly stopped running the nitros becuase brushless is so easy, so powerfull, and so fast! And brushless has a sound al its own. Ever hear an 1/8 scale on 6s fly past you at 80mph with the motor spinning at 55,000 rpm? I don't understand why people are so strong in their stand in the fight of nitro v. electric. They are both fun, they both have their place. if you want brushless get brushless. If you want nitro get nitro. Its all good!


Define a 'long time'.

Think of the length of time since the big bang as exactly a year, making each month approximately 1.1 billion years. Human beings popped into existence in the last three hours of the 31st of December. I give combustion another 100 years at the absolute tops. When it is gone it will be looked back on as part of the dark ages of humanity, best forgotten.


LOL! That is a whole other can of worms there Foxy! To us a life time IS a long time! The internal combustion will still be around when we die.

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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 9:24 PM  1 votes
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKennyKiller

I can't speak for phmaximus but I think I understand it. You said that nitros were like plug and play because you can fuel it up and go as apposed to waiting ''hours'' for batteries to charge for electrics then phmaximas proved you wrong by reminding you that you need to charge the receiver pack which takes about the same time to charge as a 5000mAh LiPo. Seems pretty straight forward to me.


I can take a pic of my nitro setups, and show there is not 1 rechargeable thing in them
D-cell glow plug warmer, 4AA's in the battery box 0 charge time
A set will last all day easy(depending on the servos pull some of these insanely high power ones probably not)

charging my batteries for my electrics with 2 chargers takes approx 60 mins per set(I charge at 1C to be safe, also I don't own one of those multi hundred dollar chargers). So now we can multiply that by the sets needed like for my truggy to run 2 times (about 40 mins total) charge time will be 2 hours. Vs the minute it takes to put nitro in the tank a few times total.


Edit: Fixed quote

< Message edited by SyCo_VeNoM -- 8/28/2012 1:01 AM >


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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 9:39 PM   
echthelion



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lord someone gets it  

im not trying to bash electric i just like nitro because i can drop what im doing and go drive without the waiting on batterys



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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 9:43 PM   
Foxy



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Before I go out with my 2 nitros, I have to make sure at least 5 batteries are charged (pair of nimh sticks for the starter box, receiver pack x2, glow ignitor) I use them infrequently enough that these batteries ALWAYS need charging. With 5 batteries for my electrics I can bash 2 cars pretty much all day. If I want to run my nitros, I have to go at least 500m from any kind of living space, pretty difficult in an overpopulated capital city. At the end of a day with my nitros, I stink of smoke, oil, I'm black with grease and crap, I have to take old clothes because good ones would be ruined I can wear a suit to bash the electrics if I wanted. I never have to tune my electrics, or at least, when I do, I do it on my laptop and its a matter of 1 or 0, not an analog tuning process which despite what some people believe in this thread, is not always easy. I expect I can tune as well as any of you, I grew up tuning 45,000rpm .12s for racing, and whats' more I went to one track that was at the top of a mountain and another at sea level and had to tune quite differently for each elevation. Not to mention 'lemons', engines that are just a total PITA always, every experienced nitro user has had a 'fussy' engine. Not a problem with the electrics.

If the sound and smell is worth all that to you, to still have less performance, then more power to ya (or rather less, cos a nitro engine only makes 3hp compared to 6hp from my 1515 and triple the torque). I tell ya, when I put the 6S truggy down at the bash spot, the 'civilians' aren't watching the nitros any more. Yeh, boring. lololol.

I like nitro, I still have 2 nitro cars, though only one is serviceable, but it's getting used less and less, mainly because they are lacking in performance by comparison, I see no gain in going to the trouble of firing them up.

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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 9:45 PM   
Foxy



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quote:

ORIGINAL: echthelion

lord someone gets it  

im not trying to bash electric i just like nitro because i can drop what im doing and go drive without the waiting on batterys




Why wait? I can run all day without stopping on two batteries. I never wait for them to charge, I deplete one, I put it on charge, I switch to the other, by the time that runs out, the first is ready again. When are you waiting? I could even take all my packs empty tot he bash spot and hve one charged by the time my buddies fire up their nitros (20 mins and I can do two at a time at that speed).

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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 9:47 PM   
Foxy



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quote:

ORIGINAL: yakfish


quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy


quote:

ORIGINAL: yakfish

It will be a LONG time before the internal combustion egine is completely replaced. I won't be in the lifetime of a any of us here on the forum right now. Those who say nitro is easier are...well... wrong. I have nothing against nitro at all. I still have a couple out in the garage right now sitting alongside my brushless cars. But electric IS easier sorry but these are the facts. I just came in from doing a few 90-100MPH passes out on the empty street near my house a few minutes ago. I can't do that with my nitros. I do love the sound and smell of a nitro and tuning makes if feel more like a real hobby and less like I am playing with toys, but I have nearly stopped running the nitros becuase brushless is so easy, so powerfull, and so fast! And brushless has a sound al its own. Ever hear an 1/8 scale on 6s fly past you at 80mph with the motor spinning at 55,000 rpm? I don't understand why people are so strong in their stand in the fight of nitro v. electric. They are both fun, they both have their place. if you want brushless get brushless. If you want nitro get nitro. Its all good!


Define a 'long time'.

Think of the length of time since the big bang as exactly a year, making each month approximately 1.1 billion years. Human beings popped into existence in the last three hours of the 31st of December. I give combustion another 100 years at the absolute tops. When it is gone it will be looked back on as part of the dark ages of humanity, best forgotten.


LOL! That is a whole other can of worms there Foxy! To us a life time IS a long time! The internal combustion will still be around when we die.


Speak for yourself, I plan to live forever.

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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 9:53 PM   
echthelion



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

Before I go out with my 2 nitros, I have to make sure at least 5 batteries are charged (pair of nimh sticks for the starter box, receiver pack x2, glow ignitor) I use them infrequently enough that these batteries ALWAYS need charging. With 5 batteries for my electrics I can bash 2 cars pretty much all day. If I want to run my nitros, I have to go at least 500m from any kind of living space, pretty difficult in an overpopulated capital city. At the end of a day with my nitros, I stink of smoke, oil, I'm black with grease and crap, I have to take old clothes because good ones would be ruined I can wear a suit to bash the electrics if I wanted. I never have to tune my electrics, or at least, when I do, I do it on my laptop and its a matter of 1 or 0, not an analog tuning process which despite what some people believe in this thread, is not always easy. I expect I can tune as well as any of you, I grew up tuning 45,000rpm .12s for racing, and whats' more I went to one track that was at the top of a mountain and another at sea level and had to tune quite differently for each elevation. Not to mention 'lemons', engines that are just a total PITA always, every experienced nitro user has had a 'fussy' engine. Not a problem with the electrics.

If the sound and smell is worth all that to you, to still have less performance, then more power to ya (or rather less, cos a nitro engine only makes 3hp compared to 6hp from my 1515 and triple the torque). I tell ya, when I put the 6S truggy down at the bash spot, the 'civilians' aren't watching the nitros any more. Yeh, boring. lololol.

I like nitro, I still have 2 nitro cars, though only one is serviceable, but it's getting used less and less, mainly because they are lacking in performance by comparison, I see no gain in going to the trouble of firing them up.


theres exceptions to anything look at it this way savage x 4.6 vs savage flux hp

and say you have a protek duo charger for both cars

with the flux say 5000mah batterys and you charge at 1c

the 4.6 1500mah hump pack and 1500mah roto start battery and i want to run both cars a hour

ill be wraping up long before your done running your lipos





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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 9:59 PM   
Foxy



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I never charge at 1c, if I'm in the field I charge at 2c non-balance, and if I'm at home, at 1.5C with balance. I have a savage flux and I used to have an X SS. I could run both cars non stop all day as long as I have a charger and a redundant set of all required batteries. In fact, the nitro will eventually run out of fuel even if he brought a gallon, my batteries will 'never' run out.

Funny you should mention the protek 610 duo and the savages, spooky, I have exactly those things.

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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 10:00 PM   
nitroexpress



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy


If the sound and smell is worth all that to you, to still have less performance, then more power to ya (or rather less, cos a nitro engine only makes 3hp compared to 6hp from my 1515 and triple the torque). I tell ya, when I put the 6S truggy down at the bash spot, the 'civilians' aren't watching the nitros any more. Yeh, boring. lololol.


I sure would like to see some documentation on that 6 hp figure.  For $300 I'm sure it's strong, but not that strong.

Civilians at a bash spot, what do they know. 

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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 10:02 PM   
echthelion



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sigh we are geting away from my point in the first post nitro from my point of view is more "plug and play"  then electric

you have batterys ready right now? because i  can be outside in 10min running my nitro and thats my point now as said above theres exceptions to anything



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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 10:04 PM   
Foxy



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22.2v*200A=4440W

4400 watts = 5.90049719 hp

Let's not mention the fact that a fully charged 6S pack is actually 25v making initial startup draw on a 1515 closer to 5000W

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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 10:07 PM   
Foxy



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quote:

ORIGINAL: echthelion

sigh we are geting away from my point in the first post nitro from my point of view is more ''plug and play''  then electric

you have batterys ready right now? because i  can be outside in 10min running my nitro and thats my point now as said above theres exceptions to anything




I do. In fact I just turned on my mini revo and I'm running it on the desk in front of me, and my baby is asleep in the next room. Let's see you do that with your nitro. The exception is the one of which you speak, not many people can plonk a nitro on the ground at any time of day or night in their neighbourhood.

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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 10:09 PM   
echthelion



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

quote:

ORIGINAL: echthelion

sigh we are geting away from my point in the first post nitro from my point of view is more ''plug and play''  then electric

you have batterys ready right now? because i  can be outside in 10min running my nitro and thats my point now as said above theres exceptions to anything




I do. In fact I just turned on my mini revo and I'm running it on the desk in front of me, let's see you do that with your nitro.


dont need to i have a rc18mt for that

but i hope you see my point

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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 10:13 PM   
Foxy



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I do, but do you see mine? What could be more plug and play than actually 'plugging' and 'playing', rather than plugging, plugging some more, plugging some more, yanking some, yanking some more (or pressing if you're a starter box type), waiting for it to warm up to get performance, tweaking the tune, THEN finally playing. I see your position as the exception. You never have to tweak a tune? Be honest...

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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 10:25 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

Before I go out with my 2 nitros, I have to make sure at least 5 batteries are charged (pair of nimh sticks for the starter box, receiver pack x2, glow ignitor) I use them infrequently enough that these batteries ALWAYS need charging. With 5 batteries for my electrics I can bash 2 cars pretty much all day. If I want to run my nitros, I have to go at least 500m from any kind of living space, pretty difficult in an overpopulated capital city. At the end of a day with my nitros, I stink of smoke, oil, I'm black with grease and crap, I have to take old clothes because good ones would be ruined I can wear a suit to bash the electrics if I wanted. I never have to tune my electrics, or at least, when I do, I do it on my laptop and its a matter of 1 or 0, not an analog tuning process which despite what some people believe in this thread, is not always easy. I expect I can tune as well as any of you, I grew up tuning 45,000rpm .12s for racing, and whats' more I went to one track that was at the top of a mountain and another at sea level and had to tune quite differently for each elevation. Not to mention 'lemons', engines that are just a total PITA always, every experienced nitro user has had a 'fussy' engine. Not a problem with the electrics.

If the sound and smell is worth all that to you, to still have less performance, then more power to ya (or rather less, cos a nitro engine only makes 3hp compared to 6hp from my 1515 and triple the torque). I tell ya, when I put the 6S truggy down at the bash spot, the 'civilians' aren't watching the nitros any more. Yeh, boring. lololol.

I like nitro, I still have 2 nitro cars, though only one is serviceable, but it's getting used less and less, mainly because they are lacking in performance by comparison, I see no gain in going to the trouble of firing them up.

do you bath in nito, and roll in the dirt?
seriously I've never gotten any dirtier with nitro than electric or noticed a smell in my clothes seeing I'm generally not standing on top of it the whole run time, and will stand down wind of the RC if I have to tune it.

As for the sound I couldn't run my nitro or electric's (well the brushless) at night seeing they are both noisy as hell lol
only thing I could run in my neighborhood at night are the brushed models those I will admit are pretty quiet. As for the daytime I can care less what my neighbors think seeing there is no law I'm breaking.

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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 10:27 PM   
Foxy



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Maybe you don't like to touch yourself like I do.

I get the oil on my hands, it soon turns black, then I touch my face, my clothes, etc. I can't believe you are not dirty after a day out running nitro, I am always filthy, even at the on road track. I am the kind of person that could get dirty in the vaccuum of space though.

I have to admit actually, the BL truggy is about 1/3rd as loud as a nitro and could not be run at night, however, I'll put my brushless losi 22 up against your quietest brushed and I bet it's as quiet. It's nearly silent, I swear. It's weird being able to hear the road noise of the tires. :/

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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 10:33 PM   
SyCo_VeNoM



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

Maybe you don't like to touch yourself like I do.

I get the oil on my hands, it soon turns black, then I touch my face, my clothes, etc. I can't believe you are not dirty after a day out running nitro, I am always filthy, even at the on road track. I am the kind of person that could get dirty in the vaccuum of space though.

I have to admit actually, the BL truggy is about 1/3rd as loud as a nitro and could not be run at night, however, I'll put my brushless losi 22 up against your quietest brushed and I bet it's as quiet. It's nearly silent, I swear. It's weird being able to hear the road noise of the tires. :/

well I take a piece of paper towel when I run anything(even electric) so if I have to touch anything else I don't transfer the dirt

That is unless you run your electrics on a clean carpet track I can't see anyone NOT getting dirty. Hell I think I get filthier with electrics cause they kick up the rooster tail of dust, and dirt when I gun it lol

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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 10:40 PM   
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you mean the whole 5min it takes to tune? then yes i tune

i see your point if you race

i only bash and i dont worry to have the 100% perfect tune i run alittle rich i guess its all a feeling

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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 10:46 PM   
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this debat is like bashing my head against a wall... they just dont get it.

like Foxy said how can a nitro be plug and play??? come on really? HOW!?
Ive still got 4 nitros, Great Vigor V2, Traxxas Revo Platnium, HPI MT2 & Losi XXX-NT
Dont know about u guys but none of mine are plug and play.
more like plug in, fill with fuel, prime, pull-pull-pull.... replace glowplug, start again.....warm up tune...

I own 1 gas car, Losi 5ive
1/5 gas engines are more plug and play than nirto will ever be but IMO they are still not plug and play

now for my 13 electrics
Traxxas Slash 2wd,Traxxas Rustler, Colt EP Thunder, HBX Bonzer, Tamiya TA01, Tamiya M03, HPI E10, Hobao Hyper 10e, Tamiya Baja King, HBX Rocket, Losi Micro SCT, Traxxas Ken Block & Axial Trail Honcho

all of those are plug in play....literally plug and play.

I dont think internal combustion engine will even last 100 years. Look back 100 years ago. people were still using steam engines. SO much changes in 100 years

sorry if my arguments dont make sence, I feel like living death, havent felt this sick in years... the Doctor said im not dying, just give it a week or so


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       Post #: 48

RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 10:48 PM   
echthelion



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my point of view of plug and play comes down to time i can get playing with my nitro faster then my brushless lipo powered electric

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RE: Re entrants view of nitro vs electric - 8/27/2012 11:03 PM   
chasehq


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: The_Shark


quote:

ORIGINAL: chasehq


Try a 1/8 turn leaner in summer, 1/8 turn richer in winter. not to mention the fuel cost

Ahhhhh gas



there is no universal adjustment for summer/winter, however a good running engine needs a adjustment WITHIN a 1/4 turn.... I have been running nitro for almost 13 years so don't try to correct me, I can tune all needles at once and almost always be spot on the first time, I have burned many gallons of fuel.

and here, I get nitro for $20, so I can get 5 gallons of fun for one 4cell battery, most people have at least 2 or 3 so then I could get 10 or 15 gallons, plus I can get about 2 O.S VG .21 for one 1/8 brushless setup.

yes, nitro can have electrical issues, but you can obviously see when the throttle servo isn't working right, that just leaves the radio or servo.


I said gas, not nitromethane.  you have a 5iveT, set the needles and forget. 45min a tank ;-)


Oh and for the record, I charge my lipos after i've finished depleting them, so they are ready for next time, and if i dont, well 8c charge rates say my lipo will be charged before you fill prime and pull your nitro :-)

vo.



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