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Hanging Around - 8/27/2012 4:02 PM   
Smasher12


 

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From: Greenville , TX, USA
Status: offline 		How can some guys go to hang their plane off the prop and it looks like they don't hold any right aileron in it? Looks like they just occasionally bump it to keep it from torque rolling. When I go to try and hover with my ultimate or my extra I have to continuously hold right aileron in it and sometimes that's not even enough. Am I swinging the wrong pitched prop or what? Thanks for any advice!!

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/27/2012 4:26 PM   
acerc



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Status: offline 		When vertical there is no airflow over the ailerons. I use rudder. Had a real hard time when first attempting and one day was real close looking at how thing's were working. For some reason when it started to rotate I hit the rudder and Wa La. Kinda similar to taking off, we use rudder there to compensate for the torque roll untill gained airspeed. IMHO


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RE: Hanging Around - 8/27/2012 6:34 PM   
Smasher12


 

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Status: offline 		Doesn't moving the rudder just move the nose from side to side though? Doesn't affect the rolling motion correct?

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/27/2012 7:09 PM   
acerc



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Status: offline 		See post #2. Work's for me is all I'm saying.


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RE: Hanging Around - 8/27/2012 7:56 PM   
zacharyR


 

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after learning how to do it ......come back and read some post ... it's a vary wide range of " the right way " to do things but often a lot of them don't hold any weight



what i think your referring to is the toque affect two factor's take into account wing span and prop diameter larger props with less pitch tend to have greater toque affect IE you'll have to hold more right aileron a perfect hover to keep the airplane from toque rolling .. so those people that don't hold much aileron might have lighter planes with less prop diorama and more prop pitch

also a common practice to counter toque affect is simple to dip the nose of the plane slightly in the direction of the wind if you ever so slightly point the nose it will cancel out a lot of the toque affect ... the toqure really comes into account only when you see o the aircraft thrust line in perfect aliment with the vertical axes


thats my 2 cents

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/27/2012 9:25 PM   
Smasher12


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks a lot guys it's been helpful!!

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/28/2012 5:51 AM   
nitro wing


 

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Status: offline 		large aircraft seem to need less aileron if designed right, some foamies rule, and some in between sizes are hard to control, prop has ALOT to do with it,
also sudden and cycling power inputs will induce torque rolls

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/28/2012 1:58 PM   
Smasher12


 

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Status: offline 		Both are AeroWorks planes. The ultimate is 100cc with a Vess 27B and the extra is a 50cc with a Vess 23A. I think I may have switched that for a 23B though not sure. I try not to bounce the throttle around too much just cuz it's annoying to listen to lol

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/29/2012 12:46 AM   
zacharyR


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nitro wing

large aircraft seem to need less aileron if designed right, some foamies rule, and some in between sizes are hard to control, prop has ALOT to do with it,
also sudden and cycling power inputs will induce torque rolls



this is not ture flat out false

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/29/2012 12:47 AM   
zacharyR


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nitro wing

large aircraft seem to need less aileron if designed right, some foamies rule, and some in between sizes are hard to control, prop has ALOT to do with it,
also sudden and cycling power inputs will induce torque rolls


this false

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/29/2012 12:58 AM   
Smasher12


 

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Status: offline 		I'm not calling you a liar cause obviously I don't know a whole lot about it. But if you claim this is false what would you recommend?

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/29/2012 1:38 AM   
nitro wing


 

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Status: offline 		Zach always disses my inputs and many others, most find him offensive and childish on this board he really does not know as much as he seems to make others believe. Dont bother me much though, kinda like a little ****
I have had over 80 aircraft from foamies to 100cc and flown over 25 years and instruct aerobatics at my field.
Of course I dont know sheit though, haha.
According to Zach if you are not flying a 3DHS you are worthless and should sell all your planes

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/29/2012 2:09 AM   
Smasher12


 

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Status: offline 		Well he can kiss my *** . I'm not a die hard for any brand but i do love my AeroWorks

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/29/2012 2:39 AM   
nitro wing


 

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Status: offline 		Its worth having a spare prop or 3 around, I have found that props, even in the same size and pitch can give different torque curves, give it a shot.
Catching the plane before it actually starts its rotation is also important, its really hard to counter once the rolls starts. Some planes have more ail. authority, and often the modern 100cc have enough control to dance around in any direction during a hover. Some of the smaller aircaft can counter the torque too, but in my experiences the larger 3D are superiour

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/29/2012 3:00 AM   
Smasher12


 

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Status: offline 		Yeah I know what you mean about catching it early. And I know it's much easier with the bigger ones cuz I've tried it with my little reactor nope and that sucker likes to dance around!!

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/29/2012 3:51 AM   
nitro wing


 

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Status: offline 		if you hover below 100 feet or better 50 feet its certainly easier to see whats happening with the plane, up high, its usually a wobbly mess.
The rudder input comment can have some affect on roll, probably more prounounced when its in very high alpha attitude.
If you slide back in a hover the following power blast will certainly drive alot of extra torque.
One of my small electric Extras is a real handful and starts rotating quite severly and can only tame it occasionally.
I would think your Ultimate would be a hover king
You have max 3D throws?

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/29/2012 4:11 AM   
Smasher12


 

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Status: offline 		Oh it is!! I just gotta hold some aileron in it. I always brag how easy stable it is. I mean you just pop that thing up there and it jut sits there!....just wants to roll a little  . I've had that thing low to the ground before. So low you could see the grass blowing from the prop wash. I'm just nowhere near a pro at it so I get it going and I'm comfortable with it...until I let it go and it rolls belly to me and I kinda freak out so full throttle and away we go. Great thing about that 100cc

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/29/2012 4:22 AM   
nitro wing


 

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Status: offline 		doesnt sound like you are having any real difficulties then, as long its not constantly rolling out unwanted.
Zach did have a point, if you can get the belly into the wind and have a slight tilt forward, the ailerons are more effective.
Once locked into a hover for some time, you'll likely get bored and want to manipulate some rotation

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/29/2012 4:28 AM   
Smasher12


 

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Status: offline 		That may be a while! Lol. Thanks for all the advise!

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/29/2012 4:45 AM   
nitro wing


 

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Status: offline 		is that hurricane gonna make any problems near you? or is far enough away

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/29/2012 4:56 AM   
Smasher12


 

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Status: offline 		I think we're good. I'm up in northeast Texas so maybe just a few showers but nothing too severe

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/29/2012 2:09 PM   
pmerritt


 

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Status: offline 		It's because they have 6 ounces of overage weight in the tail!

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/29/2012 2:47 PM   
Smasher12


 

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Status: offline 		Adding wait in the tail will keep it from torque rolling? How does that one work?

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/29/2012 5:23 PM   
rgburrill



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quote:

ORIGINAL: nitro wing
Once locked into a hover for some time, you'll likely get bored and want to manipulate some rotation


To me hovering at all is boring.  Airplanes are meant to fly - helicopters don't even like hovering.

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RE: Hanging Around - 8/30/2012 3:03 AM   
Uncas


 

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Status: offline 		Smasher12,

The Ultimate needs a lot of aileron input because the ailerons are not in line with the thrust line. They are above and below so it is harder for them to grab air to counter the torque roll. The Extra I do not know why, it depends how close your ailerons are to the fuse, how big they are and how much throw they have. On my GP Ultimate I cannot counter the torque roll. I have even rehinged the ailerons and greatly increased their throws, but on a calm day, she rolls.

Here is what you can do:
1. Maximize your aileron throws.
2. Hover into a good 5-6 mph wind. The plane will not be in the pure vertical and it should not torque roll near as much. It is when there is no wind and your plane is straight up and down that it torque rolls like crazy.

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