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Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 8/29/2012 5:12 AM   
mikegordon10



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Status: offline 		I know I've read some where about doing sheeting using Titebond wood glue and heat. I Would like to know more about the process. Thanks.

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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 8/29/2012 7:09 AM   
rlemaster



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Status: offline 		Hi Mike,

I've never thought of sheeting airplanes using this method, but I have used it for wood laminates. If you spread the wood glue over the sheet and let it dry, you can then heat it to cause it to adhere to the backing. I've used irons for example to iron on laminates like this. I would think, though, that you would want to put the glue on the ribs, etc. instead of covering the entire back of the sheet. It seems like spreading the glue on the entire back of the sheeting would add a bit of weight.

If you try it, let us know how it turns out... sounds interesting.

Good luck,
Russ

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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 8/29/2012 8:10 AM   
Bozarth


 

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Status: offline 		Controlling warping is going to be a bear.

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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 8/29/2012 12:37 PM   
dant-RCU



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Status: offline 		I used this method once to sheet foam cores. I put the Titebond on the sheets and let it dry then ironed the sheets down to the foam cores.
As Kurt pointed out, warping did occur. The warps came out when I ironed the sheets down and it looked good. However, after a month of
flying and being in the Oklahoma summer sun the sheeting started to pull from the cores. I could iron them down again but they would not
stay.

I tried this method after reading about it in one of the model mags. I never tried it again. I had new cores made and used Southern's
Sorghum (Dave Brown) to sheet the new cores.

Good luck if you try this. Watch out for the warping.

Dan


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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 8/29/2012 5:44 PM   
mikegordon10



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Status: offline 		Well this was going to be on a built up wing, A giant scale Corsair. But I guess you've talked me out of it

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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 8/29/2012 6:48 PM   
acerc



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Status: online 		Mike, I have the TF GS Corsair. It has been covered for 5 years and no sign of cuttin loose. There's one more step nobody has mentioned. Yes apply glue to the sheeting, after marking the ribs or former's, but also apply it to the opposing surface. Let it dry until glazed over real well then start ironing in place. I also use water ahead of the iron to help create the curve's required on the Corsair. When it's ready to iron, using a spray bottle, coat the outer surface with water. As you heat the wood to actvate the glue the water will help curve the wood as you apply pressure and help's get the heat thru the wood. PM me if you want to know a little more or have question's. It does work and work well.  I use this method for all my sheeting. Have never had a sheet come loose.


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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 8/31/2012 6:12 AM   
invertmast


 

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Status: offline 		acerc,
Post that extra information on here please! I'm in the process of cutting the kits out for three 123" flying wings and they have allot of odd-curves and surface area where traditional gluing of wing sheeting isn't possible, so this is the method I have been hoping to learn more on to use.

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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 8/31/2012 2:33 PM   
Rodney



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Status: online 		I've successfully used the heat to activate aliphatic glue. It works quite well but is slow as it is hard to get enough heat through the wood if the wood is very thick, works well on 1/16 inch sheet. You have to get it hot enough and then hold it in position until it cools back down.

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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 8/31/2012 2:37 PM   
DavidAgar



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Status: offline 		What is the advantage to doing it this way? I just use titebond and lay magazines on top of the wing for 24 hours. Thanks Dave


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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 8/31/2012 5:00 PM   
saramos



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Status: offline 		I used it with 3/32" sheeting on a Top Flite Spitfire and also on a sport plane. I like the method because I find it more controlled and not having a million pins stuck through the skins and framework. It's been quite a while since the last time I used the method but as I recall, I applied glue to the wing framing, then placed the skin on while still wet to transfer enough glue to the skin to mark it. Then I re-glued the frame for an even coat and applied glue to the matching areas on the skin. I don't think I would try it on anything thicker that 3/32". I've never had a problem with warpage or with de-lamination. It did take some work to get the skin to conform to the compound curves toward the wingtips on the Spitfire's eliptical wing. I used a covering iron to iron the skins on. The support tabs on the Top Flight kits I suspect helped to prevent warpage. If you had a wing with different jigging that allowed for more play, that could make a difference too. In all, I would use the method again.

Scott


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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 9/6/2012 8:35 PM   
carlgrover


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: acerc

Mike, I have the TF GS Corsair. It has been covered for 5 years and no sign of cuttin loose. There's one more step nobody has mentioned. Yes apply glue to the sheeting, after marking the ribs or former's, but also apply it to the opposing surface. Let it dry until glazed over real well then start ironing in place. I also use water ahead of the iron to help create the curve's required on the Corsair. When it's ready to iron, using a spray bottle, coat the outer surface with water. As you heat the wood to actvate the glue the water will help curve the wood as you apply pressure and help's get the heat thru the wood. PM me if you want to know a little more or have question's. It does work and work well.  I use this method for all my sheeting. Have never had a sheet come loose.


I have been doing it this way for years for all my sheeted planes. The only thing I would add is that you DON"T want to let the glue cure overnight. Force it dry with your heat gun so it's just beyond tacky in a few minutes then put the parts together and heat. Works great. I'll never use T pins to do this again.

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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 9/6/2012 9:30 PM   
acerc



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A little more from my experience. When using water as I stated in my last post, curvature is not an issue. The thicker woods used may require wetting the outside surface before applying the glue. Use your own judgement as to flexibily of the dry wood. The water does not have any adverse effect. As stated before the steam provided by the water helps with heat penetration and will give an almost instant adhesion. When I did my first test runs, without water did take more time, more pressure, and in general just harder. Once I started using water the balsa bent much easier, heat penetrated ten fold and takes much less pressure. With water compound curves were no problem as long as the wood is good and wet.
Make a couple small mock up's to practice on, if not confortable, and get a feel for it.

 




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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 9/17/2012 4:40 AM   
invertmast


 

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Status: offline 		Just tried this method the other night for the first time and it works GREAT! The wing i did it on is very complex is shape (the spars are curved). The only thing is i used the white "gorilla" wood glue as everywhere I went was sold out of titebond. I also let the glue dry for about 1 1/2 to 2 hours and then used my coverite covering iron turned all the way up to iron it down.




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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 9/17/2012 7:41 AM   
saramos



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Status: offline 		Wow, great results on such a complex wing! What was the thickness of your sheeting?


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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 9/17/2012 3:42 PM   
invertmast


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: saramos

Wow, great results on such a complex wing! What was the thickness of your sheeting?



It was 3/32" balsa. It is extremely light and soft.. just slightly heavier (30 grams) than the same sheet size 1/16" thick contest grade balsa I have.

I'll be using the same method later on, on the wing center section (yea, there's more wing!)

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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 9/17/2012 10:04 PM   
acerc



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Status: online 		Look's good Thomas.


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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 9/18/2012 3:13 AM   
ARUP


 

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Status: offline 		This technique used on this Ansaldo A-1's fuselage ply. No warps....

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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 9/18/2012 4:44 AM   
Hossfly



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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikegordon10

I know I've read some where about doing sheeting using Titebond wood glue and heat. I Would like to know more about the process. Thanks.


That was a favorite method some years ago. My method needs TIME and a strong stomach at first, then all the bad goes away. It takes a couple weeks depending on your working area humidity. I have used it on balsa and 1/64 plywood. Works best of anything ever before. Haven't used anything else since I did the first one.

Use any of the carpenter white glues. Have your foam cores and the outsides ready to go plus all the magazines and weight you can get.

Thin the glue with about 20-30% water. Mix well. Brush on the core and lay it on the covering already IN the base from wihich it came.
Brush the top and apply the other base/top. Lay on the weight. Check and recheck that all is well aligned and the wood is in its place. Go on and build something for about 3 days. Then remove the weight and the core bases. Don't give up as it will be damp and look rotten. Let it dry for several hours, in a warm area if possible.
Then back into the bases and leave alone for several days more under weight. When you take it out it will be ready to apply leading and trailing edges, etc. Much of the bad color will be gone. If still rather damp, leave it in the bases another day and try again. The color will be gone when it is really dry. If you ever get a bubble it will be because there was no glue there. I have wings 20 years old and no bumps. All types finishes, dope, epoxies, film, etc. Lots of patience needed for a few weeks, but no problems later on.

Edited to add, most have weathered some very hot TX sun and none have ever popped a bubble.

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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 9/19/2012 2:16 PM   
raptureboy


 

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Status: online 		30 grams; thats an oz more per sheet times x # of sheets could add up to alot of weight. Magazines for weight; now theres a good use for all those back issues of MA
quote:

ORIGINAL: invertmast


quote:

ORIGINAL: saramos

Wow, great results on such a complex wing! What was the thickness of your sheeting?



It was 3/32" balsa. It is extremely light and soft.. just slightly heavier (30 grams) than the same sheet size 1/16" thick contest grade balsa I have.

I'll be using the same method later on, on the wing center section (yea, there's more wing!)




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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 9/19/2012 7:08 PM   
mikegordon10



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Status: offline 		As the OP I think I need to jump in here and say that it was my intent to try the heat & Titebond method on a Balsa Built Up Wing. Sheeting foam is a whole different ball game and as you have described is much simpler just due to fact that the shucks the wing core was cut from can be used to hold the sheeting down. The shucks fit the outer contour of the wing perfectly. It's just a matter of using whatever adhesive your comfortable with and put the wing in the shucks and weight it down. Just as you have so eloquently described.
However with a balsa built up wing there are no shucks and you just can't weight the whole thing down like with a foam core wing. I did like your idea of using old magazines for weight.


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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 9/19/2012 7:51 PM   
saramos



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Status: offline 		Looking at Thomas's photo points out another item with the iron on method. Wings that have a sub leading edge work well with this method as there is a structure under the leading edge of the skins. This makes positioning the skin a bit more flexible as the skin can now overhang all around and then be trimmed before attaching the leading edge. One wing I did which did not have a leading edge, I used CA along the LE then ironed down the rest. On it, the LE was a balsa stick attached at a 45, then rounded to shape, so it was easier to use the CA on that edge than to try and add a sub LE.

Scott


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RE: Sheeting done with Titebond & Heat - 9/20/2012 12:53 AM   
invertmast


 

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Status: offline 		It works great on a balsa built up surface... and my sheets are 6"x48" sized pieces.. big airplane!

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