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Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas Engin... - 8/30/2012 3:08 AM   
DL8698


 

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Status: offline 		Other than to allow for a bit of misalignment in the push rod run, does it also help to reduce generation of Radio interference? This is the first time I am using a ignition engine and I have no idea how bad the ignition system can affect the radio reception.

I intend to use a nylon sheathed push rod (no metal) for both throttle and choke. Can I use a normal connector and clevis at both throttle and choke arms at the engine?

On a side note, regarding rf interference, I was wondering whether it helps to line the whole fire wall with high speed tape (a type of thick self adhesive alumunium foil) or other thin metal sheet? Will this stop any stray RF signals from fwd of the firewall going back to the other electronics in the fuselage?


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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/30/2012 3:13 AM   
Truckracer


 

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Status: offline 		A ball link is just a more dependable mechanical connection than a clevis. It is also bolted in place and does not wear out with extended periods of use like a pin in hole clevis can. You can call the ball link "accepted practice."

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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/30/2012 3:22 AM   
w8ye



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Status: online 		They are not talking about the "snap-on" ball link but the bigger heay duty one

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD912&P=ML


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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/30/2012 12:08 PM   
Zippi



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Status: offline 		DL8698,

You can use whatever you like as long as you have no metal to metal contact. It's the metal rubbing together that gives off RF interference. Like Truckracer said, the ball link is just a more dependable, free moving setup. Easy to adust as well. Never had any issues with them.

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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/30/2012 12:25 PM   
acerc



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Status: online 		Actually, I use the 4-40 snap on type.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEMG0&P=7


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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/30/2012 1:28 PM   
pettit



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Status: offline 		As for lining the compartment with some type of conductive foil, I would not recommend it at all.  It just may result in an "antenna" that radiates any minor RF interference stuff back to your receiver.

And with todays 2.4 GHZ radios, ignition interference is practically a thing of the past.

99% of interference related problems are a result of interference between the brain and the fingers.



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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/30/2012 1:39 PM   
pe reivers



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quote:

ORIGINAL: pettit

As for lining the compartment with some type of conductive foil, I would not recommend it at all.  It just may result in an "antenna" that radiates any minor RF interference stuff back to your receiver.

And with todays 2.4 GHZ radios, ignition interference is practically a thing of the past.

99% of interference related problems are a result of interference between the brain and the fingers.




Here is some first hand experience, not hearsay:
We successfully tried to revive an old 1938 Ohlson gas engine with chainsaw coil and condenser. On 2.4 gHz interference from the ignition was so bad the control surfaces kept flapping like an ornothopter as long as the engine was even slightly actuated so the breaker points were opened.



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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/30/2012 1:52 PM   
pettit



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Status: offline 		Yes, being a licensed amateur radio operator for more than 50 years, I recall seeing an operating spark gap transmitter in action.  That monster would interfere with just about any electronic device for miles around.

The 1938 ignition system on that engine would simulate that type of interference as well.

Most modern R/C ignition systems, if designed and installed properly, are relatively quiet.  Lots of sheilding and common grounds go a long way to keep interference to a minimum.




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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/30/2012 2:11 PM   
DL8698


 

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ORIGINAL: w8ye

They are not talking about the "snap-on" ball link but the bigger heay duty one

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD912&P=ML



I was about to order the type with the ball and cup shaped socket. Is that what you mean by "snap on" type?

The link you gave seems to be similar to these www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp



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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/30/2012 2:14 PM   
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ORIGINAL: acerc

Actually, I use the 4-40 snap on type.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEMG0&P=7



Not a very good idea on gas powered models as I did so as a spill over from my glow days and almost lost a model on account of a using one. Changed all to ball links since.

Karol.

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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/30/2012 2:28 PM   
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ORIGINAL: w8ye

They are not talking about the ''snap-on'' ball link but the bigger heay duty one

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD912&P=ML


I assumed he was referring to to the HD bolt on type in place of a conventional clevis arrangement. Thus my comments about a ball link being more dependable and bolted in place.

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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/30/2012 2:33 PM   
spaceworm


 

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Status: offline 		What is relevant is that the "CLEVIS" ON THE BOLT THROUGH BALL WILL NOT SNAP OFF.

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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/30/2012 2:53 PM   
acerc



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Status: online 		So if these are on our 60-90 airframe control surfaces, aileron,elevator, and/ or rudder they will pop off. Been using them for many year's and the last couple on gas engine's and have never had one come off. Not saying it wouldn't, just hasn't.


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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/30/2012 3:22 PM   
Truckracer


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: acerc

So if these are on our 60-90 airframe control surfaces, aileron,elevator, and/ or rudder they will pop off. Been using them for many year's and the last couple on gas engine's and have never had one come off. Not saying it wouldn't, just hasn't.

Some years ago, I used the pop-on style of ball link on several gasser throttles. Several of these still survive today without any failures. I've even been known to use the small 2-56 bolt on ball links where space is at a premium and again, no failures. I believe it is more of a matter of installation technique than the actual hardware used.

Now to be clear, on new installations and for the last several years, I use 4-40 bolt on ball links whenever possible and feel they are a better product for the application but I'm not rushing out to change my older installations.

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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/30/2012 4:55 PM   
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Status: offline 		Here is a neat setup I did for one of the guys in our local club. Due to the limited space for the throttle servo in the fuse, and factory mounting of the carb on the DLE 20, he just couldn't come up with a very good installation. I rotated the carb on the DLE 20cc and mounted the servo on the engine rail, along with the choke set up. because of the fuel tank in the A-W Yak 60/90 using up all the space for the servo. made a cool engine module setup unhook throttle servo wire con. remove the 4 engine mount bolts and the whole setup can be removed from the plane.

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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/30/2012 9:12 PM   
zacharyR


 

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Status: online 		just going to say from my personal experience the ball link offer less slob

and vibration doesn't Waller out the whole's like it will do to a clevis style linkage i had a metal clevis linkage waller down to nothing the ball linkage doesn't give any room for walllering

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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/30/2012 9:14 PM   
acdii


 

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Status: online 		I couldn't use that choke setup on mine unless I killed the ignition after it fires off as it runs quite well with the choke on.

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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/30/2012 11:04 PM   
Granpooba


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: acerc

Actually, I use the 4-40 snap on type.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEMG0&P=7



My choice also. As long as their is no metal to metal contact.

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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/31/2012 12:27 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DL8698


quote:

ORIGINAL: w8ye

They are not talking about the "snap-on" ball link but the bigger heay duty one

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD912&P=ML



I was about to order the type with the ball and cup shaped socket. Is that what you mean by "snap on" type?

The link you gave seems to be similar to these www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp



I would use the dubro links as they are dependable, hobbyking stuff can be of dubious quality. You wont save much so stick with dubro.
I also like to put a washer between the bolt and ball link, just for added insurance. If well supported 2/56 rod is fine.

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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 8/31/2012 5:30 AM   
dirtybird


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pe reivers


quote:

ORIGINAL: pettit

As for lining the compartment with some type of conductive foil, I would not recommend it at all.  It just may result in an ''antenna'' that radiates any minor RF interference stuff back to your receiver.

And with todays 2.4 GHZ radios, ignition interference is practically a thing of the past.

99% of interference related problems are a result of interference between the brain and the fingers.




Here is some first hand experience, not hearsay:
We successfully tried to revive an old 1938 Ohlson gas engine with chainsaw coil and condenser. On 2.4 gHz interference from the ignition was so bad the control surfaces kept flapping like an ornothopter as long as the engine was even slightly actuated so the breaker points were opened.




I doubt the interference was being picked up by the 2.4 system. It most likely was being picked up by the servo wire and interfering with the servo pulse. As an experiment I drove an ignition with a function generator and placed the spark plug within 1" of the 2.4 antenna completely unshielded and there was no interference with the system.

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RE: Why is it recommended to use a Ball Link on a Gas E... - 9/1/2012 2:00 AM   
tande


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: w8ye

They are not talking about the ''snap-on'' ball link but the bigger heay duty one

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD912&P=ML


Yup....in the "Industrial World" they're called "Heim Joints".....FWIW.....

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