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Vince Miller 1/5 scale Tri Pacer question.... - 8/30/2012 8:54 PM   
deadstickdan


 

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Status: offline 		I just received the plans and cowl for a Vince Miller 1/5 scale Tri Pacer which has a 71" span. I have looked over the plans for the last couple of nights and have a question regarding using spruce for most of the framing on this plane. The plans show using 1/4" spruce for framing up the model and while I know it will be strong, is it necessary to use the spruce? I guess I shouldn't second guess the designer on this but I am curious. Also, on the plans they show the model using a Enya .45 2 stroke. I'm thinking I may want to use a Saito .72 or the OS FS-62V in this Tri Pacer.

I have not found much info on this size of Tri Pacer when I searched so will welcome any information.

Thank you,

Dan

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RE: Vince Miller 1/5 scale Tri Pacer question.... - 8/30/2012 9:12 PM   
FlyerInOKC



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quote:

ORIGINAL: deadstickdan

I just received the plans and cowl for a Vince Miller 1/5 scale Tri Pacer which has a 71'' span. I have looked over the plans for the last couple of nights and have a question regarding using spruce for most of the framing on this plane. The plans show using 1/4'' spruce for framing up the model and while I know it will be strong, is it necessary to use the spruce? I guess I shouldn't second guess the designer on this but I am curious. Also, on the plans they show the model using a Enya .45 2 stroke. I'm thinking I may want to use a Saito .72 or the OS FS-62V in this Tri Pacer.

I have not found much info on this size of Tri Pacer when I searched so will welcome any information.

Thank you,

Dan


I can relate Dan I had a set of plans that called for all 1/4" plywood for all fuselage formers, main and secondary wing spars. It was powered by a .60 to .90 2 cycle size engine. I went 3/16" liteply in place of the 1/4" plywood except for the firewall and the main spar. Some designers do over build in some areas. I don't know how much framing is called for but I would bet it would be safe to use a combination of balsa and spruce.

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RE: Vince Miller 1/5 scale Tri Pacer question.... - 8/31/2012 6:24 AM   
deadstickdan


 

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Status: offline 		The entire fuselage is essentially a stick build. I know the areas under the wing will definitely stay spruce, but a lot of that fuselage aft of the wing I can probably use balsa. The plans are okay but do leave a little to be desired in some areas. I have built other kits before and this is the first time building strictly off of plans. I've done several evenings of studying the plans and most of it makes sense. As I start to build this, I'm sure things will start to click. Should be fun and will certainly be a challenge.

Dan

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RE: Vince Miller 1/5 scale Tri Pacer question.... - 8/31/2012 2:00 PM   
FlyerInOKC



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Status: offline 		Dan

It has been a long time since I built a stick build fuselage I'll have to look through a couple of old kits gathering dust and see if I have one. I remember stick built to fun and challenging in some respects. Are you planning on adding any gussets at the joints or do the plans already call for this? It amazes me sometimes when I see the interior design of our full scale brothers and realize how close the construction methods are on some models.

Mike

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RE: Vince Miller 1/5 scale Tri Pacer question.... - 8/31/2012 4:06 PM   
deadstickdan


 

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Status: offline 		Mike,

The plans show the gussets ......................lots of them. On the top sides of the fuselage the plans call for a bend near the wing and in the comments given in a separate piece of paper, the writer speaks of making the bend using a "crack method". I'm not familiar with that term but it sounds like you would actually be taking the 1/4" spruce stick and bending it until it brakes, or almost breaks, to make the bend. I had thought of just using a razor saw to cut nearly thru but not all the way and then make the bend??

Dan

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RE: Vince Miller 1/5 scale Tri Pacer question.... - 8/31/2012 4:22 PM   
FlyerInOKC



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Status: offline 		This technique is older than dirt, just ask any of the old timer builders from the days of FF. This method is still used a lot by guys building small electrics and rubber band powered models. I first read about the method in the instructions to my first kit when I was ten years old. It was an old Comet kit costing the small fortune of $1 (I got 50 cents a week if I did all my chores).

What I do is like you mentioned make a small shallow cut part way thru the stringer to allow it to bend. On balsa I recommend soaking it in a water & ammonia solution (not more ammonia than a 50/50 mix I prefer less) then making the bend. I find this minimizes the chances of a break and I broken a lot learning to do this in the past. Some guys on small stock just use water. Clamp the stringer in place with rubber bands and allow it to dry than glue it with CA or PVA whichever you prefer. I have also seen this method used on sheeting curved areas. I hope this helps!

Mike

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RE: Vince Miller 1/5 scale Tri Pacer question.... - 9/1/2012 1:36 AM   
deadstickdan


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Mike,

Thank you for that information. That helps very much. I really find this a challenge and I hope this all goes well. There is a lot more that I will probably need to ask before all is said and done. I think once completed, doing a build like this will be much more rewarding than a kit build.

Dan

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RE: Vince Miller 1/5 scale Tri Pacer question.... - 9/3/2012 2:30 AM   
deadstickdan


 

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Status: offline 		Here are more questions. First photo shows the front 2 bulkheads labeled F & I. It shows 1/4" dowels being glued thru F and into I. On I, there is shadow lines of 1/4" spruce.

On the side view of the fuselage it shows the 1/4" spruce sticks running all the way to the front bulkhead F.

It looks to me after looking at the top view of the plans that I should cut the 1/4" spruce stick right in front of former 2 and then cut 1/4" spruce and glue in front of former 2 to the back of bulkhead I. It then looks like you are supposed to glue 1/4 balsa to the edge of bulkheads F & I to help give the 3/32 fuselage sheeting, or planking, support. If I am correct in my thoughts will this give enough support for the engine?


Dan

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RE: Vince Miller 1/5 scale Tri Pacer question.... - 9/4/2012 2:32 PM   
FlyerInOKC



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Status: offline 		Dan,

It looks like to me you have 4 spruce stringers (two top and two bottom, one set each side with the curved stringer on the bottom) going all the way to the firewall and then a cross brace on each side with the dowels adding additional support to the firewall. With a planked skin I think you would be OK. What is the thickness of the outer skin?

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RE: Vince Miller 1/5 scale Tri Pacer question.... - 9/4/2012 3:45 PM   
deadstickdan


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Mike,

The outer skin calls for hard 3/32 balsa. I guess what I didn't get is that in looking at the firewall and bulkhead drawing those plans didn't show any of the stringers. I hope when I get to that point it may become more clear. My plan is to use a .60 - .70 size four stroke and I will need to make a different firewall that is much closer to the F bulkhead to make room for the larger size engine.

Dan

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RE: Vince Miller 1/5 scale Tri Pacer question.... - 9/4/2012 4:25 PM   
FlyerInOKC



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Status: offline 		OK if you look at the third picture you attached (left to right) you will see a stringer that goes from the firewall all the way back passing under the instrument panel. If you go lower starting at former # 1 you will see a piece of dotted line running toward the firewall (F) until it gets past the bend in the exhaust tube. Finally on the bottom of the drawing you see a stringer bending up to meet the firewall bottom. You could even be getting some support from the spruce stringer going from the firewall through F1 to the instrument panel. You will start to catch on when you get a few more plans under your belt. I think if you will look at the page showing the former design you will see the notches for these stringers. The first issue you need to consider is how to hold the formers in position while install the stringers. This is easier if the plane is using a slab side (large sold piece of balsa appose to thin strips). You would start at the back and work forward tacking the formers to the side until you get where the fuse starts to bend and stop and add the second side. Check you alignment by building over the plans. then start pulling the sides in to meet the remaining formers and firewall. This helps if you have a building jig for the fuselage. You will find plans to make your own on the web. I have one that was sold by Hobby Lobby R/C website years ago I use. Dry fit before you glue when starting on formers! This will show you any short comings in your technique.

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RE: Vince Miller 1/5 scale Tri Pacer question.... - 9/4/2012 5:22 PM   
FlyerInOKC



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Status: offline 		Here is a link of a guy in the UK building a fuselage using a jig similar to what I use. He may give you some ideas that will help you. I believe this jig is still available in the UK. A friend in the UK sent me my jig I checked Hobby Lobby International website and they do not carry it any longer.

http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=70422

Here is a link showing a jig the guy built himself.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f169/another-oz-mk2-pdracer-build-sydney-wood-duck-89140/index144.html

I had found a easy to build design on the web some time back which showed how to build the a fuselage jig and the most expensive thing was the carriage bolts. washer, and wing nuts. You used a flat board like a laminated shelf drilled hols evenly spaced out and the used triangle shaped plywood with spacer strips for the crutches that go against he fuselage sides. I see if I still have the instructions at home tonight but it's a long shot. You might try Googling beginner R/C hints and tips sites.

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RE: Vince Miller 1/5 scale Tri Pacer question.... - 9/4/2012 5:44 PM   
deadstickdan


 

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Status: offline 		I took a look around and found this which might work:

http://www.bhplans.com/

I appreciate all the information you are helping me with. It certainly is a different ball game working just off plans. I have wanted to do this for a long time, I just wish I would have started a long ago.

Dan

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RE: Vince Miller 1/5 scale Tri Pacer question.... - 9/4/2012 7:38 PM   
FlyerInOKC



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quote:

ORIGINAL: deadstickdan

I took a look around and found this which might work:

http://www.bhplans.com/

I appreciate all the information you are helping me with. It certainly is a different ball game working just off plans. I have wanted to do this for a long time, I just wish I would have started a long ago.

Dan



Looks good Dan! It's never too later to start!

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