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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/27/2013 7:46 AM   
BubbasanJohn



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Status: offline 		my knees are knocking together in anticipation and i have nothing vested in this.   good luck!!!!!

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/27/2013 9:12 PM   
invertmast


 

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Status: online 		Welllllllll.............................


Good news and sorta Bad news.

............................................................................................

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Thomas W.
Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/27/2013 10:44 PM   
invertmast


 

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Status: online 		Ok, i'll start with the good news.

- The nose gear is sorta fixed (well enough for now, but needs beefing up).. After the 2nd fix today
- The CG is a bit Nose heavy
- It flew on 6S
- IT FLEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bad news:

- It flies on 6s lol
- The first flight was cut very short due to an ESC catching fire in flight and losing power
- All of the gear doors need repaired now
- Lots of sooty stinky mess to clean and repair now
- Jet Fan 90's on 12s are now a requirement..

SO here is how the day went:

We got out to the field and attempted to fly it the first time at 12:30.. the nose gear repair failed, so back home we wont to fix it again..

By 2pm, we were back at the field with a beefier strut and shear pin setup, which worked out much better.
Batteries were installed and after a LONG takeoff run (700-800'), i was left with either Getting it in the air (it had just enough speed) or over-running the end of the runway and risking damage, so turning on the outer flaps to use as elevators the plane was off the ground and flying!

initial climb-out was very slow... so slow I had to drop the flaps to a takeoff position (about 10* of deflection). This had the Horton flying much better and able to climb to about 200-300' height. When i got some altitude and speed i pulled the flaps up and it started losing altitude quickly, so they were re-deployed and flown in this setting.

Power was marginal, VERY marginal.. It required full power 100% of the time to maintain level flight and got up to about 40-50mph at most.. It was very nose heavy and control response was very nice. It flew GREAT, other than being slow.

After 1 1/2 laps around the field, I noticed it seemed to be loosing power but wasn't 100% sure or not. After 2 maybe 3 laps and directly mid field on the up-wind leg, all power was lost. The worst possible place. I attempted to do a 180* turn onto the downwind since straight ahead would of taken it directly into a tree-line and a fence. Half way through the turn it was obvious I wasn't going to make it, so Full flaps was deployed and the plane leveled off before it ran into the rising terrain. Once it disappeared behind the hill, i just let it go as i knew it HIT the fence/tree-line it was headed towards, and feared the lipo's would of be compromised and a fire started..

After getting to the model, I was pleasantly relieved to see it was about 10 feet from the tree/fence line, but it was SMOKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I pulled the top hatch off after checking to ensure it wasn't hot and immediately saw flames coming from the left hand EDF unit motor and ESC. The lipo's were pulled out immediately and the fire stopped on its own.

Over-all, damage was very light over the outer wing panels (shipped paint on the TE mostly) and the center section appears to have come out unharmed other than gear doors being torn off and melted plastic/rubber around the fan unit.


So...The Horton flies and flies well, granted I wasn't able to do as much as i'd like due to the short flight (less than 5 minutes). We had the plane balanced approx 1/2" forward of the CG point recommended on the 82" wingspan version and increased 150% for our size (IE 19" aft of the wing LE at the centerline).

It was noticeably nose heavy as it required full up elevator trim to fly level and no aileron trim.

The plan as of now is:

1- Start working on the 2nd center section so we can get Tom's built.
2- Purchase a pair of jetFan 90's, HET motors and some ESC's (suggestions anyone?) to install into the prototype
3- Remove 6oz of lead from the nose of the prototype, repair it and fly it again!

Photo's:


















My favorite picture of the group:


In these photo's you can see how close it was to hitting that fence/tree-line




Inside photo' of the left EDF units.. We were very lucky the entire plane didn't go up in flames as the fire was nearly directly under the lipo's:





And a video. You'll have to forgive Tom as i just threw the video camera into his hands about 1 minute before the flight. There is enough footage to show it flying though...

http://youtu.be/WVRmxCjxOyg

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Thomas W.
Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/27/2013 11:36 PM   
BobH


 

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Status: online 		WOW WOW and just WOW. Pretty danged lucky I'd say.. but hey.. it looks good for a first time out all things considered.
Way to go bro!!!!!!

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/27/2013 11:38 PM   
invertmast


 

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Status: online 		Thanks bob!

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 12:12 AM   
lrb75


 

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Status: offline 		awsome thomas. It looks great in the air. Told you the nose strut wasn't big enough. Go with castle escs. The 80hv should work for you. You could try the YEP brand from hobby king but i wouln't try the dlux ones they are way over rated. Did you have the ESCs buried under the fans or in the air flow? Might try some small computer fans if the ESCs are not in the eflux of the fans. Something like this...... http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXYKD2&P=7

Recommend you get a full power run or two on the new fans when you try again.

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 12:21 AM   
invertmast


 

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Status: online 		They were directly behind the motors in the ducts. The only thing i can think of is the esc was bad.

The jet fans on 12s wit a het motor draw 94A and make 11lbs of thrust with a HET 700-68-1200 motor according to the fan manufacturer, so imma need at least a 100A esc. But we will have 22lbs of thrust instead of 12

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 12:25 AM   
pandissix



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Status: offline 		Thomas

Speaks volumes of your ability as a pilot that you brought her in with minimal damage.

Now please trust me. Put some tam tj100's in there on 12S. It will solve all your problems. 17-19 pounds of thrust per fan and no more snap crackle pop with the Castle HV120 in there. Uncle Tam may give you the good guy discount too.


Rich


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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 12:30 AM   
invertmast


 

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Status: online 		Rich,
Ill give him a ring and see what kind of a deal he can do on two. I honestly think the jetfans would be fine as 6s is obviously Just enough to fly it, and considering all of the trim drag involved with keeping the nose up and the flaps being deployed some as well, the extra thrust and the ch being moved aft is nothing but improved performance.


Plus im not sure i am willing or able to drop $2k into a pair of tam fans.

Now if you want one of these things, we can work out a deal

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 1:14 AM   
lrb75


 

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Status: offline 		Didn't think the amps would be that high. Lucky castle makes a 120HV too.

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 1:16 AM   
weazel1


 

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Status: offline 		dude ive watched your whole build great job and great flying there .now just work out the gremlins and she will be awesome but do you need those tubes that far out in the aft ?

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 1:19 AM   
invertmast


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: weazel1

dude ive watched your whole build great job and great flying there .now just work out the gremlins and she will be awesome but do you need those tubes that far out in the aft ?


Thanks!

The tubes are longer than what should be necessary. We did this on purpose so as to ensure the airplane wouldnt have any yaw stability issues. Once we become more familiar with the planes characteristics, we will begin shortening the tubes a little at a time to test any changes in its characteristics.

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 2:03 AM   
leo12305


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Thomas

a great job !!!! An a bad thing with the fire. There comes a question about the tubes. I find here in a German forum a interesting article. Sorry it's to long to translate it. Have a look to the pictures and see the video you'll find out the idea to eleminate the tubes.
Here the link " http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php/91189-Horten-IX-1-25m-Flugerprobung/page27 "  I hope it will be a help for you.
Rolf
 


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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 2:24 AM   
invertmast


 

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Status: online 		Rolf,
I have heard of people using vanes such as that to eliminate the tubes. They are an option for us in order to remove the tube extensions, as the tubes are very ugly looking. Currently the 9ch receiver i have installed has all of its channels filled, so i'll have to upgrade receivers as well if we decide to do the thrust vane.

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 2:33 AM   
leo12305


 

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Status: offline 		Thomas,
in this case the vanes run parallel with the aileron. A separate channel is not used.
Rolf


< Message edited by leo12305 -- 1/28/2013 8:53 PM >

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 2:37 AM   
invertmast


 

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Status: online 		Rofl,
Gotcha! In that case, I could just run a Y harness then, but doing so would add more weight aft of the CG and require more nose weight ugghhh the nose on this thing is do short lol

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 2:57 AM   
SHANEC



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Status: offline 		Nice job! Love the way she looks in the air! Very menacing !

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 3:12 AM   
glazier808



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well done...not a bad day really.

You still have the airframe intact, and we know it flys!  

Casey


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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 6:34 AM   
eddieC



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Status: offline 		Guys, what an amazing accomplishment! Ambitious, and great attention to detail. Congrats, can't wait to see the new power system !

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 3:46 PM   
garlou60


 

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Status: offline 		Good morning sir. When I opened the RCU web site this morning I was in for a surprise. What a magnificent example of the Horten 229. It gave me goose bumps to see it on your work bench. You are a master builder! What a thrill. I see that construction is coming along well. What a thrill to see it fly after completion. You made my day. You are a credit to master model aircraft builders every where.

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 4:35 PM   
vertical grimmace



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Status: offline 		What a great project! You guys to an amazing job as well. So nice to see this aircraft modeled, one of my all time favorites.

I have to say though, the issues you are having are exactly why I hate electrics. I know it is viable, and turbines are so expensive, but that is the way I have to go if I were to ever build one. Also, the turbines will allow the elimination of the thrust tubes, correct?

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 4:40 PM   
invertmast


 

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Status: online 		I wouldnt say its "electrics" fault.

It was more like my wallets fault. We went with cheap HK stuff for this thing and were just un-lucky in getting a bad component. So really its my fault with buying cheap, when i knew better.

The next power system wont be cheap, but it will include quality components to ensure they work!

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Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 5:02 PM   
JeffH


 

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Status: offline 		Jet fans will be more than enough considering it actually flew on 6s. I am impressed!

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 8:17 PM   
F4u5



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Status: online 		Nice work...I call it a success. The Horten brothers would be proud. Nice work and she'll fly again.

Jeff

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 1/28/2013 8:46 PM   
BubbasanJohn



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Status: offline 		Awesome job!  Sorry to hear of the electrical issue. Cant wait to see this bird fly again with a better power set up.  You should be very proud of your work.

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