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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/13/2012 7:57 AM   
warbird lover


 

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Status: offline 		A masterful job of building and shaping. What do you like to use for a
filler?

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/13/2012 1:05 PM   
invertmast


 

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/13/2012 2:35 PM   
Datavision


 

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Status: offline 		That's fantastic, looks evil. Will you be offering kits or an arf?

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/14/2012 1:50 AM   
invertmast


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Datavision

That's fantastic, looks evil. Will you be offering kits or an arf?


No arf's, but turnkey models may be an option for those willing to pay the $$$. Unfortunately, there is already enough work involved in these things and pricing it realistically (with the labor involved) would price it way above what people would be willing to pay.

We will probably be offering composite center sections with all the structure and wing tubes installed. You will then have to source the plans from Gary at wings on the web, have them enlarged 150% and then do your own thing from there on.

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/14/2012 2:04 AM   
invertmast


 

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Status: online 		Today's progress.. Got started around 1:30 and was finished about 7. Still have to do all the final sanding on the top of the center section, attach and shape the Leading and trailing edges, do the last of the rough sanding on the bottom, then final sand. Once that is done, and oh yea, finish the inlet duct lips, we can glass the center section and start doing the priming/sanding and detail work, the parts I enjoy!








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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/14/2012 2:34 AM   
splinterz25


 

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/14/2012 8:21 AM   
dvs1



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Status: offline 		Thomas, Have you decided about a retracts manufaturer or are you going to CNC yourself?

Also what are you going to use for flight stabilization, Gyro or some sort of computer controller? Or do you think the design is inherently stable and will fly with standard equipment? For some reason I see potential problems with stabilizing it in slow flight along the Y axis as with full scale flying wings?

Oh and by the way I see your F14 hanging in the background. If you feel a crunch for space you can ship it to me and I'll store it for you. I have just the spot for it. I'll even pay for shipping!

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/15/2012 11:10 PM   
Datavision


 

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Status: offline 		If you decide to make an ARF I would get one.

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/15/2012 11:17 PM   
wallace.tharp


 

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Status: offline 		A German indusrtialst flew a ME-263 on Elderado Dry Lake at a QSAA meet near Las Vegas in about 1997 or so, it was jet powred and was launched by a powerful bungy. It was quite complex and the center section was said to be built with titinium. Landed on the belly obviously. Flew well and just screamed! I do not think he had any special control systems such as gyros or computers. I am told that the B-2 can not fly without computer input, it is just is not stable at all. Good luck with your fantastic project. I know we are all going to watch the vids! wallace.tharp

< Message edited by wallace.tharp -- 10/17/2012 4:04 AM >

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/15/2012 11:36 PM   
invertmast


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dvs1

Thomas, Have you decided about a retracts manufaturer or are you going to CNC yourself?

Also what are you going to use for flight stabilization, Gyro or some sort of computer controller? Or do you think the design is inherently stable and will fly with standard equipment? For some reason I see potential problems with stabilizing it in slow flight along the Y axis as with full scale flying wings?

Oh and by the way I see your F14 hanging in the background. If you feel a crunch for space you can ship it to me and I'll store it for you. I have just the spot for it. I'll even pay for shipping!



I'll probably use the E-flight 60-120 size electric retracts with some sort of straight strut on the mains. For the nose, we will probably just use a piece of bent wire at first.. Or i may order some thinwall stainless tube and braze up my own semi-scale nose gear strut.


Not allot is needed for stabilization. The smaller brother (82") span version of this thing appears to fly extremely well with no gyro's or anything. So we will be flying it without any. The way i have planned to use the drag rudders, it would require Two gyro's for yaw control anyways. We may try it sometime if it appears to be needed, but I don't think it will be needed.

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/15/2012 11:46 PM   
invertmast


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Datavision

If you decide to make an ARF I would get one.


IF by "ARF" you mean custom built, we can make arrangements. These won't be "ARF'd" in any large volumn, if someone wants one built, painted and ready for equipment install, it can be done on a case-by-case basis. Just don't expect the $500-800 "ARF" prices of the big box brands, you are probably looking at 2 to 3 times that price!

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/16/2012 2:29 AM   
dvs1



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quote:

ORIGINAL: invertmast


quote:

ORIGINAL: dvs1

Thomas, Have you decided about a retracts manufaturer or are you going to CNC yourself?

Also what are you going to use for flight stabilization, Gyro or some sort of computer controller? Or do you think the design is inherently stable and will fly with standard equipment? For some reason I see potential problems with stabilizing it in slow flight along the Y axis as with full scale flying wings?

Oh and by the way I see your F14 hanging in the background. If you feel a crunch for space you can ship it to me and I'll store it for you. I have just the spot for it. I'll even pay for shipping!



I'll probably use the E-flight 60-120 size electric retracts with some sort of straight strut on the mains. For the nose, we will probably just use a piece of bent wire at first.. Or i may order some thinwall stainless tube and braze up my own semi-scale nose gear strut.


Not allot is needed for stabilization. The smaller brother (82'') span version of this thing appears to fly extremely well with no gyro's or anything. So we will be flying it without any. The way i have planned to use the drag rudders, it would require Two gyro's for yaw control anyways. We may try it sometime if it appears to be needed, but I don't think it will be needed.



I was just wondering because I know Lockheeds 2 flying wings, the original from the late 40's and the B2 are unstable but not much was known about the Horton 229, so I wasn't sure what you expected performance wise.

I think your smart going with EDF. In my opinion nothing sounds like a turbine in a jet for a realistic sound. But for my financial situation I would definately go EDF for 2 reasons, cost and ease of use. Only downside for me is initial cost of LiPo's. I think with the technology of the last few years EDF is a great choice. If I ever get back to framing my HE162 I will definately go that route.

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/16/2012 2:38 AM   
invertmast


 

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Status: online 		Yea i agree. The quality of the hobbyking nanotech batteries is pretty good so we are planning to go with those. Initial cost isnt to bad at Around $180 for two 6s5000mah

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/16/2012 4:30 AM   
Ram-bro


 

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Status: offline 		The cost of a unit doesnt sound all that bad. When you get closer to knowing your priceing scheme....Iam sure some of us(me) would be very interested. PM me if you want to talk about this offline

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/16/2012 7:47 PM   
invertmast


 

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Status: online 		Alright guys,
A bit of an update on obtaining one of these in this size:

I spoke with Gary at wingsontheweb and he is willing to take assist with the enlarging of the plans and offer short kits for the outer wing panels

So, for anyone interested, send me a PM and I can give you the specifics!

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/16/2012 11:40 PM   
jeffk464


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wallace.tharp

A German indusrtialst flew a ME-263 on Elderado Dry Lake at a QSAA meetnear Las Vegas in about 1997 or so, it was jet powred and was launched by a powerful bungy. It was quite complex and the center section was said to be built with titinium. Landed on the belly obviously. Flew well and just screamed! I do not think he had any special control systems such as gyros or computers. I am told that the B-2 can not fly without computer input, it is just is not stable at all. Good luck with your fantastic project. I know we are all going to watch the vids! wallace.tharp


Yes, this is what I was thinking. Awesome project but I'm not sure its flyable. What about a detachable vertical fin that you can install for flight and remove for display.

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/16/2012 11:45 PM   
invertmast


 

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Status: online 		Guys,
This is about a HORTEN HO-229, not a ME-263, please keep the thread on topic!

If you are referring to this model not being flyable, then you need to go on the wingsontheweb website and watch the videos of the smaller version flying with no vertical surfaces!

Just because we have fly by wire computer systems flying complex aircraft now, doesnt mean that is the only way it can be done. The original 229 first flew in the 40's with no computers!

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/17/2012 3:34 AM   
wallace.tharp


 

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Status: offline 		I know it's not a Me-263 and I know Bill Northrop and others, specifically the German inventor that is said to have been the first to design and actually fly the so called, "flying Wing. His name was Alexander Lippisch. Point here is we know it can be done and I bow to your expertese in your build, but I would not risk such a fantastic model aircraft without first makeing and flying a simple model of it even if it were just a glider. I since watched the vids... Got to admitt it flys great!!! wallace.tharp

< Message edited by wallace.tharp -- 10/27/2012 1:14 AM >

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/17/2012 3:42 AM   
invertmast


 

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Status: online 		Wallace,
While I understand your concern, I think some people are missing one big point. This model is based off of a Proven and already Flying plan set! There is no need to do a simple glider model, it has already been done in a larger RC powered version.

Original plan-set design:

http://www.wingsontheweb.com/ho229/index.php

Video's of its success, in a smaller (82" wingspan) size:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAd-NeiGP-A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esyQ_iaT9sg&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hxXIayV-RU&feature=related

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/17/2012 5:33 AM   
jeffk464


 

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Status: offline 		Well, got to admit it does look like it flies pretty well.

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/20/2012 4:29 AM   
invertmast


 

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Status: online 		Even though I'm out of town, i'm still doing some work on this thing... CAD drawing for the instrument panel is done and its been sent to the 3D printer to get quoted.. Also working on a CAD drawing for a scale nose gear system. I'm not planning on putting much work into this until after the things are flying though.



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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/22/2012 3:40 AM   
invertmast


 

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Status: online 		More CAD work.. I figure if the think flies well, we out to at least install some good looking landing gear. So here is a 100% scale Nose gear off of some 3-view drawings I found off the net. They appear to be bentley drawings,but I can't tell for sure. Next up, is the strut mount, and down lock brace parts. You will notice a little tiller bar at the top. With the size of our version of the 229, we are able to install a nose steering servo in front of the landing gear. As the gear goes up, the steering pull-pull lines will slacken, and then be pulled tight once the gear goes back down. With the advent of small linear actuators, I see no reason why the scale actuation method can't be used.

the big question is.. how much is this gonna cost. I simplified the machine work allot to where they can be done with basic lathe and mill work. The only very complicated part, is the Fork for the tire.



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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/22/2012 6:16 AM   
91zulu



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Status: offline 		All depends where you go to have it made. Try Lenny at Shindin.

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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/22/2012 7:03 AM   
invertmast


 

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Status: online 		Alrighty.. Cad work is 90% done on the nose gear. And according to the assembly, it all works exactly as it should! A few adjustments are needed to fit the width of the nose gear bay opening, but otherwise its done and ready to be cut.. Here's a picture of it in the Up and Down position..





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RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229 - 10/26/2012 4:21 AM   
invertmast


 

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Status: online 		Progress since I have gotten back home...

Bottom and top are all sanded to shape and the center section TE was completed. I also finished up the leading edge to inlet transition's.





So whats next? GLASSING! 1 month 12 days from Tree to the beginning of glassing. I like building "just" wings like this!

Instead of using 3/4oz glass, I wanted a bit more strength and ding resistance as the very soft/lightweight wing sheeting has already been cracked in a few places on the top. So I used some 2oz glass cloth. This also gives me the added piece of mind due to the balsa wing spars (I'm kind of wishing I would of put a strip of Carbon Fiber on the spars, to late now!).

First the bottom outer wing panels: (notice how one outer wing panel is about 2/3 the length of the F-14's fuselage mold!)




Then the bottom center section. All 1 piece of glass, not easy, but it worked!:


Also not pictured, I glassed a piece of 1/32" ply and 1/8" balsa. These will be used to cap the inlet/outlet holes in prep for molding. Also, the 6oz glass i needed for the mold arrived, and the Expensive glass for the Flying center section arrived as well. Also got the 6s 5000mah lipo's for the EDF units..

Tomorrow, i'll trim and flip everything over. The elevons on the wings will get glassed tomorrow, as I'm not going to glass the top of the wing till the elevons are removed as I still need to make up the hinge gap covers and install them. Most likely, the top center section and outer wing panels will get glassed saturday night or sunday afternoon.

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