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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 9/30/2012 12:43 PM   
Thunderbolt47



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ORIGINAL: Leroy Gardner


quote:

ORIGINAL: rc34074


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ORIGINAL: Thunderbolt47

Nice looking plane. however an 8 pitch prop will be far from 115 MPH. It will be lucky to hit 100. A 22x10 might get you near 100, a 20x12 will get you around 115 a 18x14 will get you too 125mph. This is of course if your engine can turn these props at around 7300rpms on the ground.

I saw a T/F today with a 22x8 fly. It was very ''scale like'' around 85 mph.

My mustang flys at a very ''unscale like'' speed of 135mph. G-62 with T-6 racing prop on RCexel ignition. turns 7600 on the ground.


Agian nice plane.

Here is mine. 26lbs also


Scale top speed for a 1/5 scale would be 185 to 200 mph per this chart done by Kent Walters a few years ago. Certainly proportioning to get the ''scale'' speed is wrong.

Ed

Wrong is'nt the word for it . take 437MPH devided by 1/5 or 5 is 87.4 MPH and to date a G62 doing 135 is'nt going to happen.



I have many radar readings on my mustang over the last 7 years, I know what she does.

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 9/30/2012 4:37 PM   
oliveDrab



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This is one I just finished for a friend. Made it electric. Big Axi with 4-5000mah lipos, came in at 30lbs. Flies good.

Which AXI was that? AXI 5345? 12S? 15S? What speed controller are you using?


Hey Kahloq - are you reading this? I assume you would use a Rimfire electric motor. Maybe you can weigh in on the top speed.





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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/1/2012 1:25 AM   
rc34074


 

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My comment about proportioning was not intended to put doubt on the 135 mph speed you list for your plane. But "scale" top speed for a top flite mustang with an 84.5 inch wing is not 80 some mph, it is much higher than that (100 mph higher than that) as clearly shown in the chart I posted previously.

Some people still say that if a plane is 1/5 scale then the plane should fly at a top speed 1/5 of the full scale, but from aerodynamics we know that
proportioning like that is not correct. So those of us that want to fly anywhere near "scale" speeds need to use the chart I posted as the goal.

I have been to several full scale shows where the P51 was flown at full speed and the pilots said later that they were at an indicated speed over 400 - close to 450 in several cases - so It is certainly feasible for the mustang to achieve those speeds at relatively low altitudes.

Ed

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/1/2012 1:32 AM   
crashproof


 

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Status: offline 		Good Luck getting your 1/5 scale TFGS P51 to scale speed then.   

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/1/2012 1:39 AM   
Leroy Gardner


 

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ORIGINAL: drube

Leroy, do you plan to maiden soon? I'd like to here how it loops and how the DLE 55 pulls it around.  I assume that the DLE 55 is easier to fit in the cowl compared to a G62?



drube your are right about the fit between the two engines and the DLE55 will do beautiful large loops from a flat run, something a US41 can't. Today the DLE55 is the engine of choice for the TF 1/5 mustang be it kit, arf or rtc. I "did not" say other engines are not used.
Go back and read page 18. My cowl is not cut up, the only thing sticking out of it is engine head, exhaust discharge is out cooling discharge opening.

See right and left sides, Leroy

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/1/2012 2:24 AM   
drube



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Status: offline 		Looks great Leroy and thanks for the info.


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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/1/2012 1:12 PM   
rc34074


 

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ORIGINAL: crashproof

Good Luck getting your 1/5 scale TFGS P51 to scale speed then.   


True- it's going to take an engine with some serious horsepower to achieve those speeds, and a big flying area. Plus the Top Flite probably does not have the room in the present design for an engine strong/powerful enough for this engine - I think it will take 100cc or bigger - maybe an inline twin like the 100cc twin I think DA is coming out with.

Anyway the reason I posted is to support the idea that the speeds that Thunderbolt47 flies at is beginning to approach true "scale" speed for a full throttle mustang.

But I like the look of the cowled DLE55 in the Top Flite, so I will use that for the one I will be assembling this winter.

Ed

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/1/2012 2:20 PM   
crashproof


 

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Status: offline 		Hello Ed hope you are well.  I just wanted to show a comparison which I feel better illustrates the Scale speed column that was posted and why I feel it is very inaccurate.  I have flown many TFGS P51 and seen many more fly and 200 mph would look ridiulously too fast and any thing but Scale.  It would also in my opinion be dangerous as I doubt the Frame would hold up.  The first Video of course is full scales and the second is my Ziroli 100" P51 with a Quadra 75.  Not sure what speed the real ones are doing but mine is doing about 80 to 85 mph.  They look pretty close in my personal opinion much closer than they would if mine was doing 200 mph.  The DLE 55 will make your TFGS P51 look closer to the real one than going 200 mph will no matter what someone's chart states take care.   Kevin.        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ypf2MLgV-I         http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EIa8-DiAeY

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/1/2012 3:01 PM   
glazier808



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ORIGINAL: oliveDrab


quote:

ORIGINAL: JSZ

This is one I just finished for a friend. Made it electric. Big Axi with 4-5000mah lipos, came in at 30lbs. Flies good.

Which AXI was that? AXI 5345? 12S? 15S? What speed controller are you using?


Hey Kahloq - are you reading this? I assume you would use a Rimfire electric motor. Maybe you can weigh in on the top speed.






The AXI 5345 is only rated to 12s, I use the Castle Creations 120 HV v2 with mine, your speed will depend on the prop and airframe. (I run a xoar 22-10)The 5345 is rated for 3d up to 17lbs and scale to 33lbs.

Casey


This is from their site


AXI 5345/xx HD GOLD LINE motors are suitable for 3D models up to 17-1/2 pounds (8000g) and aerobatic models up to 26-1/2 pounds (12000g) and large realistic flying scale models up to 33 pounds (15000g) in weight. The lack of gearbox noise makes these motors particularly suitable for scale models. Motor is more robust for unlimited 3D and has new 10mm shaft inside the motor turned down to a standard 8mm shaft on the outside. Prop shaft adapter is 12mm diameter. Three larger ball bearings, including a huge rear bearing allow unlimited load while 3D flying. AXI 5345 HD GOLD LINE replaces previous AXI 5345 GOLD LINE.


< Message edited by glazier808 -- 10/1/2012 6:11 PM >

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/1/2012 6:25 PM   
ForcesR


 

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Status: offline 		If you want to see and hear an RC P-51 Mustang fly 155mph/258kph with a 4 cycle gas 3 cylinder Kolm engine; check this video out, turn up the volume and enjoy.

Roger

http://www.rcmovie.de/video/a48e9b4bb8b51701bb76/Soundcheck-von-der-Galloping-Ghost

< Message edited by ForcesR -- 10/1/2012 6:56 PM >

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/1/2012 6:39 PM   
glazier808



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Status: online 		Here's my personal favorite vid for the Mustang....

How about 140mph


Tell me that this elecrtic doesn't sound amazing...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G8okUqomjy0

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/1/2012 8:23 PM   
rc34074


 

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ORIGINAL: crashproof

Hello Ed hope you are well.  I just wanted to show a comparison which I feel better illustrates the Scale speed column that was posted and why I feel it is very inaccurate.  I have flown many TFGS P51 and seen many more fly and 200 mph would look ridiulously too fast and any thing but Scale.  It would also in my opinion be dangerous as I doubt the Frame would hold up.  The first Video of course is full scales and the second is my Ziroli 100'' P51 with a Quadra 75.  Not sure what speed the real ones are doing but mine is doing about 80 to 85 mph.  They look pretty close in my personal opinion much closer than they would if mine was doing 200 mph.  The DLE 55 will make your TFGS P51 look closer to the real one than going 200 mph will no matter what someone's chart states take care.   Kevin.        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ypf2MLgV-I         http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EIa8-DiAeY


Crashproof - thanks for your well wish - I hope you are well too.

I tend to agree with you that it seems risky to try to get a typical RC mustang up to the "scale" speeds per his chart. On the other hand if you did you certainly would want to fly a MUCH bigger pattern than you were flying your Ziroli to try to keep the G loads to a reasonable level.

However his chart is based on a fairly thorough analysis that seems clearly more correct than trying to compare anyones memory or comparison to videos, especially since videos are often taken with various lenses/zooms which can throw off your perceptions. I can post my imperfect copy of his complete article but we are getting kind of far away from the theme of this thread. I think your opinion is based on the speeds you have seen rc mustangs fly using engines that have been available not based on scientific analysis of the subject.

Anyway to me there is no way that proportioning the speed based on the scale proportion is correct. To me the typical 40 size 57 inch span which are about 1/8 scale mustangs then would be expected to fly maybe 55-60 mph, which would be slower than nearly all other rc planes and would be ludicrous. So maybe we should agree to disagree?

As to the full scale mustangs flying in formation - do you think they are a full speed (400 +)? I seriously doubt that - unless they have flown together a LOT, which would cost a ton of money, I can't imagine thatt hey would risk those multimillion dollar mustangs flying that close together at 400+. The mustangs that I saw doing that speed were solo and were a pretty fair distance away from the crowd - definitely visible but not too close.

Ed

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/1/2012 8:25 PM   
chris923


 

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I don't understand the argument about scale speed. My TF P51 with DLE 55 -22x8 xoar does 89mph. 89x5=400mph

With a 19x8 4 blade 79mph.

P51's crusing speed was 362, max was 437 maybe in a drive 490? As far as I am concerned 89mph is pretty close to scale.

Chris923

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/1/2012 8:29 PM   
chris923


 

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I have a scale question. With is the dihedile of a FS P-51, and what is the dihedile of the TF 1/5 P51?

Anyone know?

Chris923

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/1/2012 9:09 PM   
JSZ



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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: oliveDrab


quote:

ORIGINAL: JSZ

This is one I just finished for a friend. Made it electric. Big Axi with 4-5000mah lipos, came in at 30lbs. Flies good.

Which AXI was that? AXI 5345? 12S? 15S? What speed controller are you using?


Hey Kahloq - are you reading this? I assume you would use a Rimfire electric motor. Maybe you can weigh in on the top speed.






The AXI 5345 is only rated to 12s, I use the Castle Creations 120 HV v2 with mine, your speed will depend on the prop and airframe. (I run a xoar 22-10)The 5345 is rated for 3d up to 17lbs and scale to 33lbs.

Casey


This is from their site


AXI 5345/xx HD GOLD LINE motors are suitable for 3D models up to 17-1/2 pounds (8000g) and aerobatic models up to 26-1/2 pounds (12000g) and large realistic flying scale models up to 33 pounds (15000g) in weight. The lack of gearbox noise makes these motors particularly suitable for scale models. Motor is more robust for unlimited 3D and has new 10mm shaft inside the motor turned down to a standard 8mm shaft on the outside. Prop shaft adapter is 12mm diameter. Three larger ball bearings, including a huge rear bearing allow unlimited load while 3D flying. AXI 5345 HD GOLD LINE replaces previous AXI 5345 GOLD LINE.


< Message edited by glazier808 10/1/2012 6:11 PM >

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This was my first build with electric. The customer sent me all the equipment and yes it is a Axi 5345 with a CC controller. If I remember correctly it was an 180amp Ice something that was recently updated or revised. I installed 4 5000mah 12s batteries. Flew very nice and sounded really cool going by. I myself am strictly into gassers, but was fun to learn about large electrics.

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/1/2012 10:56 PM   
michaelj878


 

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Status: offline 		i love my mokis to but my tf p51 has a super tigre g4500 in it, very nice fit inside the cowl and sounds great ,,,

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/1/2012 11:41 PM   
Leroy Gardner


 

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ORIGINAL: chris923

Guy's

I have a scale question. With is the dihedile of a FS P-51, and what is the dihedile of the TF 1/5 P51?

Anyone know?

Chris923


Full size is 10 degrees TF 1/5 is 5 degrees, Leroy

Sorry I made the post about expected speed of my plane, there was no intent to start a debate here, This thread is about a TF RTC built, so lets get back to it and take this other stuff some place else, it's only right. Leroy

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/1/2012 11:42 PM   
D_wilbur


 

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Status: offline 		My AT6 race plane at 33lbs. did 135 at the races with a stock G-62 and 22X10 APC prop. this P-51 is a cleaner flying plane.
my TF ARF P51 with a DLE 55 22X10 prop will do loops it does slow down at the top just a bit. DLE 55 does require cutting the bottom of the cowl and the spark plug sticks out. I had to modify the muffler so it fits inside just see the pipes sticking out at the bottom.

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/2/2012 12:01 AM   
chris923


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leroy Gardner

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris923

Guy's

I have a scale question. With is the dihedile of a FS P-51, and what is the dihedile of the TF 1/5 P51?

Anyone know?

Chris923


Full size is 10 degrees TF 1/5 is 5 degrees, Leroy

Sorry I made the post about expected speed of my plane, there was no intent to start a debate here, This thread is about a TF RTC built, so lets get back to it and take this other stuff some place else, it's only right. Leroy



Thanks Leroy!

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/2/2012 1:40 AM   
geh3



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see >>>   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwHYYth1YWU
or >>>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On8cKUZ-2xY
and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBqBhwuE2M8&feature=relmfu

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/2/2012 1:53 AM   
Doomking



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Status: offline 		Leroy
I like your last two pictures in particular.
What muffler are you using to keep everything inside the cowl?
I thought the pitt style muffler always had a piece sticking out right on the side of the engine.

Thanks

Fabio

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/2/2012 2:03 AM   
chris923


 

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Status: online 		So, where can you get a Wren 44. I can't find a website for wren.

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/2/2012 2:58 AM   
Thunderbolt47



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leroy Gardner

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris923

Guy's

I have a scale question. With is the dihedile of a FS P-51, and what is the dihedile of the TF 1/5 P51?

Anyone know?

Chris923


Full size is 10 degrees TF 1/5 is 5 degrees, Leroy

Sorry I made the post about expected speed of my plane, there was no intent to start a debate here, This thread is about a TF RTC built, so lets get back to it and take this other stuff some place else, it's only right. Leroy



Leroy I wasn't trying to start a dedate either. I just have a lot of flights on my mustang and I know the speed it flys with most any prop. I was letting you and others know what I have learned over the last 7 years flying Bald Eagle. She has been a great plane and is still my favorite plane in my hanger.

Kelly

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/2/2012 6:08 AM   
Leroy Gardner


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Doomking

Leroy
I like your last two pictures in particular.
What muffler are you using to keep everything inside the cowl?
I thought the pitt style muffler always had a piece sticking out right on the side of the engine.

Thanks

Fabio


Muffler is built by WWW.j-tech.com It' made for in cowl adaption of DA-50and DLE-55 and the TF 1/5 scale kit,arf and rtc. They also custom make for other engines used in this plane. Leroy

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RE: TOP FLITE GIANT SCALE P51 ARC - 10/2/2012 3:31 PM   
impulse09



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Status: offline 		I think the dihedral is about 5 degrees FS and about 2.5 in the kit (per wing panel). Regardless of the exact number, the kit has only half of the necessary dihedral.

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