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Second plane - 9/29/2012 1:12 PM   
pigcop2



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From: Adrian, MI, USA
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Looking for a second plane. Thinking Sig 4 Star or Sig Mid Star. I'm looking to make it an electric conversion.

Thoughts on one or the other? I have some building experience, and I've been flying a HZ Super Cub all summer. I"m very proficient with it on Hi rate setting and most aggressive throw on the control horns.

Any suggestions would be great.

John


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RE: Second plane - 9/29/2012 1:37 PM   
mike109



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From: DubboNew South Wales, AUSTRALIA
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I have the Four Star 40 and the Mid Star 40. They both fly well though I find the Mid Star easier to fly as its wing is larger and so its wing loading is lower.

When I first finished the Mid Star I put a Super Tigre 51 in it. It was total over kill and I had problems with the engine until I worked out that it needed a new plug so I then put a Saito 62 in it. This was good but a bit overpowered. Eventually I put an OS 52 Surpass four stroke in it and it worked well. Then later I put an Irvine 40 diesel in it for a diesel meet and it is still in it though I have not flown it for a while.

I also have the 60 and 120 size versions of the Four Star and I must say I prefer them to the smaller 40 version as they are more stable and less thrown around by our rather turbulent site.

The Mid Star may also be better to mount a battery in with the wing access at the top but you would be better in either case building a hatch for battery access.

They are both easy to build and the kits and instructions are really good.

If you do build the Four Star 40, I would suggest you do everything you can think off to save weight as a light one such as a friend of mine had flies really well. It only had a very old and quite anemic Saito 40 in it but it flew really well.

Have fun.

Mike in Oz

PS, that is my 60 size Four Star on the left. It now has a Saito 100 but originally flew quite well with a Saito 72.

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RE: Second plane - 9/29/2012 2:02 PM   
redbiscuits



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Status: offline 		A Great Planes Escapade makes an affordable and excellent flying second plane. Comes with everything to make it electric or glow powered and is easily transportable. You can set it up with one aileron servo or two. Just my two cents.

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RE: Second plane - 9/29/2012 3:23 PM   
jester_s1


 

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Status: online 		To my mind, the Ugly Stick in is various versions is the best second plane. EFlite has their version that's already electric. I've flown it and can report that it's very lightly loaded, adequately powered, and handles the wind like a much bigger plane.

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RE: Second plane - 9/29/2012 6:49 PM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		Both are excellent choices and including the stick all three are great with electric motors. It's just a mater of choice, what one do you like the looks of best. The second plane takes the worst beating of any plane you will own, you will really start doing a lot of stunt flying with it and doing things you have never done before. All three of them will put up with a lot of mistakes. I used the Up-Roar as my second plane and it took a beating but lasted me several years. It seemed to get better after all the repairs.
Have fun with it no mater what plane you choose.

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RE: Second plane - 9/29/2012 8:12 PM   
JohnBuckner



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quote:

ORIGINAL: pigcop2

Looking for a second plane. I'm looking to make it an electric conversion.

Any suggestions would be great.




If I may make a suggestion first and formost for a first or second plane its very often a mistake to be trying to reinvent the wheel doing electric conversions. Its even worse when its a first airplane and for some reason so many new flyers all want to redesign their trainers. There is nothing wrong with making conversions and it can be fun as well as a challange but not at this stage, very often ends in something less than successful.

You will be better off financially and less frustration if you stick with the propulsion system that is designed for the airplane. If you want electric then great, choose an electric airplane for now anyway

John

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RE: Second plane - 9/29/2012 9:59 PM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		If you mean choosing the correct size motor, ESC and battery for the plane to fly the same as with the intended glow engine then I will agree with you 100%. I still can't do it. The conversion, just installing the components I find easier then installing a glow engine.
I don't think I will ever get the idea of choosing the correct size motor into my head. So far I have just gotten lucky. I gave up on converting the Swoose but the fellow I built the other one for bought his motor, ESC and battery for his. I'm still not sure if it is correct or not. I just tossed in an over size engine I had on hand and know it will work in mine.
When is the big float fly at the Bridge John??

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RE: Second plane - 9/30/2012 12:34 AM   
JohnBuckner



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Status: offline 		Yup mean folks wanting to start learning to fly and at the same time wanting to do so by doing a conversion from a Glow plane to an electric one on their first airplane. I have had many such requests, that just makes no sense at all and is a sure fire roadblock to success in many cases.

My recommendation to all the newer folks for first, second and heck even third airplanes - First decide the propulsion system you want to start with and only then pick your aircraft and pick one intended for the propulsion you have choosen.

I relented with one fellow last year that just last year insisted it had to be electric but he just had to have a Senior Kaydet. I told him ok I would work with him except I wanted no part of the conversion and would not reccomend anything as I simply just don,t care and do not keep up on electrics as I have zero interest. He would have to do his own research from others locally and heaven forbid on the forums.

Well he ended up with the electric Senior about a year later and it flys fairly well however since he started from ground zero equipment wise he is into it a thousand bucks or just over ($1000.00). The worst part is he is into it so deep, and I have him soloing it just fine he won,t fly it any more. Because he is into it so deep, he just bought another parkie which he will never really progress with.

Grey Beard the London Bridge float fly this year is November 2,3 and 4. I am not gonna fly in it this year, if all the P's and Q's fall into place I am gonna fly to the Float fly on floats and hopefully on the 3rd

Hope ya can come and bring the Swoose and we can get you and my buds Swoose together at least for pics or even flying together.
OK now what would the the plural For Swoose be, Swooses? Swoosies? Swoosi's? Swissies? Aw heck, anybody see where I left the Geritol?


John

Team Geritol

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RE: Second plane - 9/30/2012 2:07 AM   
pigcop2



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From: Adrian, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the input.  I've decided to go for the best of both worlds and get a 4 star 20.  It looks just like the 40, but electric.  Its a bit smaller than the 40, but should fly as well I would imagine. 

Now.  Any suggestions for power? 

This is what the manual recomends, but I don't want to be underpowered. 

  • BRUSHLESS OUTRUNNER ELECTRIC MOTOR
    200-300 watts with a kv specification suitable for turning a 9x6E propeller. Motor should also include prop adapter hardware and a radial-style motor mount.

  • ELECTRONIC SPEED CONTROL (ESC)
    Matched to your motor - typically 35 amp.

    * We use and recommend the Maxx Products Co. Combo 19A (www.maxxprod.com), which is a packaged motor system that includes their Himax 3510-1100 Brushless Outrunner Motor, a Castle Creations Thunderbird 36 amp ESC, a radial motor mount, an APC 9x6E propeller, a prop adapter, and mounting screws.    		Himax 3510-1100 Motor specs:
    Diameter35.2mm (1.39")
    Length32.2mm (1.27")
    Shaft Diameter4.0mm
    Weight89g (3.1 oz.) motor only
    Max. Power250W
    Kv=1100 Rm=.055 lo=1.2
    Any other brand of outrunner motor and speed control of equivalent size and specifications would also work.


  • 3S1P LITHIUM-POLYMER BATTERY PACK
    1800-2400 mAh



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    RE: Second plane - 9/30/2012 6:08 AM   
    mike109



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    I recently built an E-Flite Pulse 25XL. And if you are looking for an electric to follow as your second plane, this is worth a look. It is easier to fly than my Four Star 40, flies better aerobatics and the kit was extremely well put together.

    I put the recommended L-Flite 25 motor in it with a 40 Ampere ESC I just happened to have and a Tunnigy 40C 11.1 Volt (three cell) 3000 mAh battery. I used E-Flite's recommended motor because I knew it would fit easily (it did) and it is powerful enough. There is a larger 32 option but it is not necessary for the way I want to fly it.

    It was not cheap (nothing RC is here in Australia) but it was certainly worth it. And as I said before, it flies better than the Four Star 40 and also the Mid Star.

    There are also the larger Pulses from H9 which you could also convert to E power.

    Cheers

    Mike from Oz

    PS I started typing this before your last post so to some extent it is redundant. But then again, it may be worth a look and think. I suspect the Four Star 20 and the Pulse 25 are similar.

    < Message edited by mike109 -- 9/30/2012 1:39 PM >

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    RE: Second plane - 9/30/2012 1:01 PM   
    JeffinTD


     

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    Status: offline     		I have an e-flite Advance. It is an inexpensive Arf for 25 or 32 size electric, and it handles much like a four star.

    Mine has the 32 motor and runs on 4 cell 3300. I think using the 25 and 3 cell would be the better way to go, since you would save considerable weight.

    I also converted mine to tail dragger, but unless you are ok with opening the fuse, I'd leave it tricycle.

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    RE: Second plane - 9/30/2012 2:37 PM   
    carrellh



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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: pigcop2

    Thanks for all the input.  I've decided to go for the best of both worlds and get a 4 star 20.  It looks just like the 40, but electric.  Its a bit smaller than the 40, but should fly as well I would imagine Now.  Any suggestions for power? 

    I’d use the SIG recommendation, or possibly the next size up.
    The maxx products page http://www.maxxprod.com/mpi/mpi-264.html has columns for model weight so figure out what the weight will be and order accordingly.
    You can use the chart for any model. Package 46A would work for the 4 star 40.
    You might save a nickel by gathering parts from multiple sources but the stuff at maxx should be a good starting point until you gain experience

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    RE: Second plane - 9/30/2012 5:28 PM   
    Gray Beard


     

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    Status: offline     		This is what John and I were speaking of, the WHAT SIZE question and you can get 100 different answers. There are a lot of choices, I tend to go by the type and weight of the plane. There are 6 of us flying the Aeroworks Extra and all but myself are using the same power system. Mine is from another plane and just a bit smaller. We get together and do one big order from Hobby King in China. I just bought the bigger motor and haven't installed it but from watching others fly there planes I know what planes I can use it in. I have a scratch build on the way and this will be the system, it's an old time free flight plane and will be converted to electric. For $30.00 I got the TurnigyTR 2217/16 and the Turnigy Plush 25 amp ESC plus a 11X3.8 prop. It uses the Turnigy 1.3 Lipo battery, 20-30C1300 mAh battery. Those are about $10.00 a piece. I like to always go a bit over powered and I think this system would be a good choice for the little 4*.
    There is a web site at the bottom of the page called Wattflyer and well worth looking at and reading the sticky basic. There is no support from HK but so far I have had great luck with them. I almost never buy anything that is on back order though. The one time I did it worked out well for me though but there are a lot of horror stories about HK but I have had good luck with them. $30.00 for a complete system is worth the risk.

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    RE: Second plane - 10/1/2012 2:10 AM   
    pigcop2



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    Status: offline     		Well, I decided that I wasn't going with the standard set up.  I don't know why, I just didnt think 250W would be enough for me to grow, and Tower had a pretty good sale going on I got $40 off my entire order with free shipping. 

    So I went on electrify website and used their calculator and came up with a "sport" system.  I purchased a rimfire .10 with 45amp ESC(maybe a bit overkill here) and 3200mAh 25c battery and a 10-7 prop.  According to the calculator, I should be able to get about 7min of full throttle flite time.  We shall see.   

    Grey Beard, I agree.  I don't think there is really one right answer to this question.  I'm no electrical expert by any means.  My head still swims when I try to read all the ins and outs of electical flight.  But I think I'm getting a bit of a hang for it as I actually picked out this same system before I looked on the calculator (good possiblity I was lucky).  But like I said, we'll see how accurate the calc is. 

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