quote:

ORIGINAL: 804

'No desire to put any effort into anything'.
"Lazy, fat..."
Never...work on anything that requires time, dedication, and a sense of mechanics."
"...absolutely useless on every level..."

I think it's sad a 27 year old sounds like an octogenarian.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yourworstnightmare

quote:

ORIGINAL: 804

'No desire to put any effort into anything'.
''Lazy, fat...''
Never...work on anything that requires time, dedication, and a sense of mechanics.''
''...absolutely useless on every level...''

I think it's sad a 27 year old sounds like an octogenarian.

LOL.  You make me laugh. 

I'm not 80.  I'm 27.  I know this.   However age is just a number in my opinion.   I'm a SSgt in the USAF, and I'm a Propulsion Craftsman.  (IE, Jet engine mechanic).  I fix things every day that'd probably blow the average persons mind away.  I said what I said, because our new guys have absolutely ZERO mechanical skills.   18-20 year olds come into our career field, and don't know what an ''All 1/16's'' is.  (Adjustable wrench).  Or don't know what a Hi-Torx screwdriver is.  It's PATHETIC.  1/2 of my coworkers don't know how to change the oil in their personal cars, and their friends are just as bad. 

I was welding floor pans into a 72' Chevy Nova at the age of 13.  LOL.  My neighbor who restored old cars needed a helping hand, and well....  I wanted to learn after school in the evenings.  So there I was.  Laying pretty welding beads at the age of 13.  That car turned out fantastic. 

At the age of 21 I was changing injectors, and HPOP's on diesel trucks, and wiring relay boxes and light bars on cop cars for the local PD. 

I'm not ''bragging'' by saying these things, I only am saying them because the average GUY my age or younger, coudln't help themselves out of a cardboard box if their life depended on it. 

People are not self sufficient in a lot of ways, and it's apparently obvious by the shrinking numbers of participants in hobbies such as this.  RC is a Hobby that requires skilled learning, problem solving, assembling, math and science skills, as well as the ability to understand mechanical principles and drivetrain math.  Not to mention wing & servo angles, weight and balance measurements, and thrust measurements and requirements for specific scale models. (giant scale planes come to mind). 

Simply knowing how to tune a carb is now rocket science these days, as dudes have no idea what a idle set screw is, and even what the choke might be used for.   

Anyway, I could rant on and on for days about how useless people are.  Maybe we could attribute that to them acting like drones with their cell phones crammed in their faces 24 hours a day. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: 804

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yourworstnightmare

quote:

ORIGINAL: 804

'No desire to put any effort into anything'.
''Lazy, fat...''
Never...work on anything that requires time, dedication, and a sense of mechanics.''
''...absolutely useless on every level...''

I think it's sad a 27 year old sounds like an octogenarian.

LOL.  You make me laugh. 

I'm not 80.  I'm 27.  I know this.   However age is just a number in my opinion.   I'm a SSgt in the USAF, and I'm a Propulsion Craftsman.  (IE, Jet engine mechanic).  I fix things every day that'd probably blow the average persons mind away.  I said what I said, because our new guys have absolutely ZERO mechanical skills.   18-20 year olds come into our career field, and don't know what an ''All 1/16's'' is.  (Adjustable wrench).  Or don't know what a Hi-Torx screwdriver is.  It's PATHETIC.  1/2 of my coworkers don't know how to change the oil in their personal cars, and their friends are just as bad. 

I was welding floor pans into a 72' Chevy Nova at the age of 13.  LOL.  My neighbor who restored old cars needed a helping hand, and well....  I wanted to learn after school in the evenings.  So there I was.  Laying pretty welding beads at the age of 13.  That car turned out fantastic. 

At the age of 21 I was changing injectors, and HPOP's on diesel trucks, and wiring relay boxes and light bars on cop cars for the local PD. 

I'm not ''bragging'' by saying these things, I only am saying them because the average GUY my age or younger, coudln't help themselves out of a cardboard box if their life depended on it. 

People are not self sufficient in a lot of ways, and it's apparently obvious by the shrinking numbers of participants in hobbies such as this.  RC is a Hobby that requires skilled learning, problem solving, assembling, math and science skills, as well as the ability to understand mechanical principles and drivetrain math.  Not to mention wing & servo angles, weight and balance measurements, and thrust measurements and requirements for specific scale models. (giant scale planes come to mind). 

Simply knowing how to tune a carb is now rocket science these days, as dudes have no idea what a idle set screw is, and even what the choke might be used for.   

Anyway, I could rant on and on for days about how useless people are.  Maybe we could attribute that to them acting like drones with their cell phones crammed in their faces 24 hours a day. 

Glad I could make you laugh.
I'm a 55 yr. old Home Improvement Engineer (carpenter).
When I was a kid, oh so many years ago, I was the local bicycle mechanic, because none of my neighbors had the skill or the tools or desire
needed to fix the simple bikes we had back then. I knew what tools were used for what purpose, and how to use them,
largely because I had a father to teach me. My neighbors had fathers too, but they learned other things.
I'm talking about life circumstances here.
I fly RC at the back of a large farm.
The farmers grandson and all his buddies build honkin' 4wd trucks as their hobby.
Before the recession hit, there were plenty of young folks employed in all the trades who knew their way around tools.
There still are many employed in auto repair, motorcycle repair, plumbing, electrical, etc.

Has it ever occurred to you that the reason your "new guys" don't have experience with tools might be in part
due to the all volunteer service?
Many of the young people that have the skills you speak of may be already employed, making a good (decent) living in the civilian world.
The ones joining the service are doing so because they have no skills, and are seeking them.

There is nothing new in any of this. Your thoughts, and no disrespect here, are no revelation.
I had to research some early 20th century newspaper archives once for a school paper, close to 30 years ago now.
I was amazed at how similar the headlines and story lines were to today's.
An old saying:
"The more things change, the more they stay the same".
People have not been "self sufficient in a lot of ways" for a long, long, long, time.
Nothing new there.

Having said all that,
I know it is natural to feel the way you do, as most older folks I know are the same.
I've noticed that it usually begins around the time their kids turn about 14 or so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill G



.... I have had a few smart remarks made toward my builds from builders, but in the past few years, there has been a mass increase of people on some forums (more on another forum than here by far) that contribute nothing but smart remarks and challenging of others. They tend to be ARFers and not builders. Again not the fault of the ARFs, but just the people. That may have had some influence on the original poster of the ARF statement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dooz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill G



.... I have had a few smart remarks made toward my builds from builders, but in the past few years, there has been a mass increase of people on some forums (more on another forum than here by far) that contribute nothing but smart remarks and challenging of others. They tend to be ARFers and not builders. Again not the fault of the ARFs, but just the people. That may have had some influence on the original poster of the ARF statement.

To assume because I like to fly ARFs that I'm not committed to anything in my life is ignorant.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Teachu2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dooz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill G



.... I have had a few smart remarks made toward my builds from builders, but in the past few years, there has been a mass increase of people on some forums (more on another forum than here by far) that contribute nothing but smart remarks and challenging of others. They tend to be ARFers and not builders. Again not the fault of the ARFs, but just the people. That may have had some influence on the original poster of the ARF statement.

To assume because I like to fly ARFs that I'm not committed to anything in my life is ignorant.

I'm sure that you've experienced anti-ARF sentiment firsthand, and I'm also sure that once you have built the kit, covered it, installed all the equipment, and flown it that you will understand the difference in committment. Before ARFs, a high percentage of beginners bought a kit, spent hundreds of hours building it, and crashed it in short order. A substantial percentage never tried again. OTOH, the busy beginner of today can crash this morning and again with a new plane this afternoon. It's only money - there is not the time and effort committment. For the last 20 years, I've always recommended that the first and second planes be ARFs - then build a 4*, Tiger, Super Sportster, etc.

quote:

To assume that there is some sort of personal lack of commitment in someones life because of what they do in a hobby is short sighted, to say the least.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Teachu2

quote:

To assume that there is some sort of personal lack of commitment in someones life because of what they do in a hobby is short sighted, to say the least.

I think you are not seeing this as I intended - I'm talking about commitment TO THE HOBBY, not about anyone's character. It's a higher level of commitment to build your own bow, construct your own arrows, build your own race car, train your own horse, build your own firearm, build your own full-scale airplane, weave your own fabric, grow your own food, make your own clothes, mow your own yard, clean your own pool, and so on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dooz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill G



.... I have had a few smart remarks made toward my builds from builders, but in the past few years, there has been a mass increase of people on some forums (more on another forum than here by far) that contribute nothing but smart remarks and challenging of others. They tend to be ARFers and not builders. Again not the fault of the ARFs, but just the people. That may have had some influence on the original poster of the ARF statement.

This is my first post in this forum, but I belong to few others, and the first thread I post in is fed with complaints about ARFS by builders. I fly ARFS, but I'm assembling a kit right now. I say assembling because, I didn't cut the wood from stock and I didn't create the plans. I'm assembling a plane step by step, following plans. But for the life of me, I don't understand why anyone cares what I fly or how I put it together. To assume because I like to fly ARFs that I'm not committed to anything in my life is ignorant. I happen to be the 48 yr old single father of 4 and former Marine. I have 3 children in college and one in high school taking college courses. I work a 50 hrs a week, but I'm paid for 40. Every ounce of energy I have has gone into raising my children who are solid citizens. Yet someones going to pass judgement on my life because I fly an ARF? This is why I find an empty road, in an abandoned subdivision in the middle of the Phoenix desert and fly with friends. We haven't quit the hobby... joining a club is not worth this kind of politics so we fly elsewhere.