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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 9:32 PM   
PLANE JIM



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From: Pinehurst, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Great flight-I think I am going to build one now-this is too cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 9:57 PM   
on_your_six


 

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Status: offline 		It might not be illegal to fly over someone's property... jet's and general aviation GA aircraft do it everyday. Their minimum altitude is 500feet over uninhabited areas, 1000 over inhabited areas. To me, there seems to be a layer of airspace available for small FPV flights... say from 100 to 500 feet. Still those flights would have to be VFR Visual flight rules, and the current FPV equipment would not likely be up to see and avoid standards. I sure don't want a multi-rotor aircraft buzzing my house or party. (think of paparazzi using them to see Kate up close and personal) As many RC aircraft accidents as I have seen, it will be quite some time before they are as safe to fly as GA. There is never going to be a perfectly safe aircraft. I have seen battery fires as the result of crashes... and I am not likely to feel warm and fuzzy about a battery fire on my roof top.

If I were young and did not own a pot to pee in, my attitude would be more reckless. Now, I have more to loose in the case of liability for causing another person damages.

I also choose not to respond to demands to meaningless questions.

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 10:20 PM   
asimatt


 

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 10:20 PM   
brandon429


 

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From: Olfen, TX, USA
Status: offline 		804 thanks chiming in on the points.
My stance on the quad fpv its legal and I don't care, I'd laugh and waive and if he crashed it into our dinner we would all laugh, just a difference in families that's all, probably slanted cuz I'm a block flyer lol. The small quads...not reg size, that's too big as I call the split.

Totally respect your opinion on the vapor flights
Any consistent opinion is respectable, if you asked me not to fly over you I wouldn't

If someone minds live video and not stills from a sat, that's fine too. No argument here.

All the scenarios we've read here about cams over your yard are preference for a perfect world. As the one poster, out of fifty misinformed said, there is no expectation of privacy in your yard I'm sorry but its the case in the link I provided

Posited like you wrote, I'd honor your space requests for sure. I'd fly totally around your property line.

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 10:23 PM   
brandon429


 

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From: Olfen, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Its very important for us not to intermix our dislike for privacy laws, the exceedingly allowing laws, with someone being within the law, that's happening.

If one property owner asked another to respect airspace not of legality but of decency in preference, I'd honor that. But if you were any kind of park flyer I'd laugh and try to dodge your shotgun from the air it would be fun. you'd have double standards that wouldn't give you the right to expose others to risk and ask for special treatment above your airspace, regardless of what the AMA says.

For my argument regarding AMA sanctioned fields, we weren't meaning places where cities removed that qualification, just compliant parks. That subjects people to risk as a double standard of safety in AMA compliant parks, where people aren't walking about, they can't be struck. No persons were seen in my vid

< Message edited by brandon429 -- 10/14/2012 10:44 PM >

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 10:36 PM   
bogbeagle


 

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Status: online 		It might be different in the US ... but here, the minimum height that you can fly above ground is, well, zero.

The 500 foot rule applies only to persons, vessels and structures and is NOT a height. It is a distance ... so, it could be lateral, for instance.

So, there's no legal impediment to your skimming down to the grass in an open field, or to the surface of a lake. You don't need to seek permission to do that. In any case, the 500 foot rule is not applicable to model planes, afaik.

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 10:42 PM   
brandon429


 

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From: Olfen, TX, USA
Status: offline 		In the US, there is no altitude restriction on pilot in command civilian setups. Some police themselves to be within the suggested 500 ft of FAA advisory circular 9157. It would seem by extension here the anti camera crew would prefer higher altitude flights vs safer, lower ones.


Glider pilots break advisory rules all the time, but they have no camera, so we don't wreck their threads lol

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 11:07 PM   
Luchnia


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 804
-grab my 12 gage splattermatic.


804.....I am glad I was not drinking coke or anything when I read those words. I would have spit it everywhere - cracked me up for a minute. I had this image of one of those little RC four wheelers like you see in the movies getting blown to bits by a 12 gauge shotgun!

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 11:08 PM   
804


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bogbeagle

It might be different in the US ... but here, the minimum height that you can fly above ground is, well, zero.

The 500 foot rule applies only to persons, vessels and structures and is NOT a height. It is a distance ... so, it could be lateral, for instance.

So, there's no legal impediment to your skimming down to the grass in an open field, or to the surface of a lake. You don't need to seek permission to do that. In any case, the 500 foot rule is not applicable to model planes, afaik.

The rules here, afaik, are the same.
But, of course, we are talking about flying over urban areas.
It would be difficult to fly 500' laterally away from persons and structures, and not be nearly 500' AGL.
I think this a big problem FPV folks face. How to be high enough to be able to avoid being a nuisance to ground dwellers, and
be low enough to not endanger GA.

Just to be clear, I am not anti-FPV. Not interested enough to lay out the cash now, but I never say never.
I just don't like the idea of flying over urban areas. Two other hobbies I enjoy are shooting, and riding dirtbikes.
I think there is a time and place for those, as well as FPV, but populated areas are not the place for any of them.

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 11:41 PM   
on_your_six


 

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Status: offline 		From a hundred feet, I would not like to be hit in the head with the stick plane you are flying. I really think you have a major disconnect in your logic. I feel that it is people like you that will force the FAA to issue draconian rules. I don't fly in the park, the first rule on the parks and recreation list where I live is about aircraft not being allowed (I looked it up... National Capital Planning and Parks). I see it done, but do not participate or encourage it. I fly at an AMA field and at times in a rural country farm area. Even over farmland, the potential exists to cause crop damage and trespassing if I should loose an aircraft and need to recover it. There are places for everything and I just don't feel that your $100 to $300 is safe for the intended purpose. You can argue till the cows come home, does not make it right and the jury probably will not see it your way. Err on the side of safety... and for G's sake stop posting videos.

There is nothing to discourage you, and you seem rather manic about the issue.

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 11:53 PM   
flyinwalenda


 

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Status: offline 		Brandon,
How old are you? Are you  living at home with not many responsibilities or do you own a home, have bills to pay , and other responsibilities, etc..etc...? Just trying to gauge your logic here.


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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/15/2012 12:01 AM   
scale only 4 me



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From: Avon Lake, OH, USA
Status: offline 		How long will this thread go before you guys realize you're not going to change his mind,, all the name calling and passive aggressive insults just make you all look bad.

Give it a rest already

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/15/2012 12:16 AM   
impulse09



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From: Chesapeake, VA, USA
Status: offline 		This ain't locked down yet?

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/15/2012 12:27 AM   
brandon429


 

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From: Olfen, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Reciprocal courtesy check:

Ultra orthodox AMA adherent sets up at my park, makes his flight line, there's only me and my family in the park.

During the flight I decide we're within 200 yds of the foamy, and it could lose signal and crash into us, so I nicely ask you not to fly the rest of the day because that's how long we will be there. How do you respond, you were legal to fly, and I'm just being a paranoid little girl in a mans body, or perhaps I've mentally donned my don't tread on me flag mentality and I just don't like it but you were legal


You would all keep flying because my request was stupid, that's a great illustration of what we've got here today.

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/15/2012 12:56 AM   
oliveDrab



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From: Christoval, TX, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: flyinwalenda

Brandon,
How old are you? Are you  living at home with not many responsibilities or do you own a home, have bills to pay , and other responsibilities, etc..etc...? Just trying to gauge your logic here.


C'mon Brandon. How about giving us a little background on yourself? How old are you, are you in college, do you own a home, do you live with your parents, where do you get the extensive knowledge you seem to possess. Do you belong to any of the local R/C clubs? There's two in your area according to modelaircraft.org.



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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/15/2012 2:26 AM   
PLANE JIM



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From: Pinehurst, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Brandon-I really enjoyed your video and your technical expertise on the ability to fly your stik at night is unbelievable. Please do not let other posters get you down-reminds me of the old guys at the field telling a newbie that it will never fly as they sit the lawn chairs and never fly anything or offer to help. I sure would like to get more information on your set-up.


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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/15/2012 2:29 AM   
wahoo



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quote:

ORIGINAL: PLANE JIM

Brandon-I really enjoyed your video and your technical expertise on the ability to fly your stik at night is unbelievable. Please do not let other posters get you down-reminds me of the old guys at the field telling a newbie that it will never fly as they sit the lawn chairs and never fly anything or offer to help. I sure would like to get more information on your set-up.




http://www.fpvpilot.com/Pages/default.aspx

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/15/2012 2:39 AM   
PLANE JIM



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Status: offline 		Is that a virus your trying to pass to me with that link?

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/15/2012 2:47 AM   
brandon429


 

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From: Olfen, TX, USA
Status: offline 		The most important part is actually the ham license

It is exceedingly uncool and unrespected among fpv'rs to not be licensed

To be federally compliant, you can't even power up the vid TX without a license

But here's the secret, sure to rile those who learned Morse code and had to do it the hard way, you can learn it free in one week off an iPhone app, free

Ham study guide
Tech class study guide

Flash carding is sick, this information is equivalent exactly to an 11the grade physics pop quiz



Get the app, google the sites that run free flashcard apps, print out all the questions and answers .pdf off the FCC website (whoa)

Read for two weeks

Google arrl website

Input zip
Show up on test date usually twice a month fifteen bucks



< Message edited by brandon429 -- 10/15/2012 4:08 AM >

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/15/2012 3:42 AM   
asimatt


 

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Status: offline 		Brandon are you ok?

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/15/2012 3:43 AM   
asimatt


 

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Status: offline 		I love the idea but maybe it's time to just let it go.

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/15/2012 4:15 AM   
jester_s1


 

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From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Status: offline 		One of the guys here on RCU has a great sig that applies in this case: "Never argue with an idiot. He'll only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience." In this thread, some of us have fallen for it, some have gotten annoyed and showed it (to the delight of the OP I'm sure) and some are still trying to argue with him on his terms. The OP has ignored the compelling points against what he's doing because he doesn't have a defense, and he's used personal attacks, non sequiturs and babbling repetition to keep you all busy. If the OP would like to converse in a civilized matter he can PM me or start another thread. I doubt he does though, so I'm out.

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/15/2012 6:07 AM   
mr_matt



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quote:

ORIGINAL: brandon429

By not discussing park flying around people........



You seem really hung up on AMA "sanctioned" park flying and you have repeatedly used the catchall term "flying around people". The AMA Park Pilot program has recommendations that are a bit more that 3 words long.

PARK FLYER SAFE OPERATING RECOMMENDATIONS
· Inspect your model before every flight to make certain it is airworthy.
· Be aware of any other radio frequency user who may present an interference
Problem.
· Always be courteous and respectful of other users of your selected flight area.
· Choose an area clear of obstacles and large enough to safely accommodate your flying activity.
· Make certain this area is clear of friends and spectators prior to launching your Aircraft.
· Be aware of other activities in the vicinity of your flight path that could cause
potential conflict.
· Carefully plan your flight path prior to launch.
· Abide by any and all established AMA National Model Aircraft Safety Code items where applicable and appropriate.


So I don't think the AMA is advocating running out and doing low passes over some kids birthday party.

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/15/2012 7:15 AM   
bogbeagle


 

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In England, our equivalent of the AMA is the BMFA. The FPV crowd found it necessary to form their own "body" ... they now conduct their own liaison with the CAA. Quite simply, this was necessary because of the negative attitudes which prevailed in the BMFA.

The efforts of the FPV crowd have directly led to amendments in the Air Navigation Order ... a loosening of the reins, so to speak.

I suppose that arguments, such as the one in this thread, are pretty typical of any sporting endeavour. It was much the same when large models made their appearance ... a separate representative body had to break away from the BMFA, because the prevailing attitudes were stifling. (similar-ish story for helis and electrics)


Is there a separate "body" for the FPV crowd in America?




Our BMFA has no regulatory powers, whatsoever. It is just a "big model club", which raises revenue from annual fees and from brokering insurance. It has morphed into "just another lobbying group", I suppose. Is your AMA like that?






I think that the problem which underlies many of these threads is the political system ... and the idea of "collective punishment". Many of you seem to fear that a mistake on Brandon's part might lead to your being punished. I suppose that is true .... but it shouldn't be that way.

Brandon is responsible for his flying. Brandon should be the only one who faces any consequences for his actions. Why should any of you be punished for his mistakes? Clearly, you shouldn't; yet you fully accept that you might be.

They used to do this at school, do you remember? "If the guilty boy doesn't own up, you'll all stay for detention." It was a great way of turning classmates into enemies.

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/15/2012 10:51 AM  1 votes
eddieC



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From: Jackson, MI, USA
Status: offline 		I thought it was a cool flight. No one was even aware of the small bird overhead, I see no harm in the op, day or night. 

I regularly see hazardous ops at our field: planes poorly guided during takeoff and landing, flying overhead/behind the flight line, running into the pits, etc. I saw a 1/4-scale Pogo fly away 20+ years ago, about 20 pounds and a gas Zenoah pulling it. Being at a designated field doesn't make the operation safe, preparation and attitude do.

I think Brandon's one of the innovators, what's recently been called an outlier.  You may not agree with his methods, but it appears he is very prepared and knows his stuff. Returning to base at night is something maybe 1% of the RC pilots could do, a demonstration of real skill. Even if the Stick went out of control, chances are it would only get caught in a tree, not 'crash into a garage full of gas cans'. 
Also, our hobby has survived fine up to this point with fly-aways, crashes, etc. I'd say we've already proven ourselves to be responsible, especially given the post-9/11 hypersensitivity. 

IMO, the Feds are the ones who need to be watched and closely regulated, not us. But that's a whole 'nother thread. 


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