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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/13/2012 9:50 PM   
brandon429


 

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From: Olfen, TX, USA
Status: offline 		The other thing I wish topspin would address, if he comes back, is the hair splitting about weight.

Can you think of any possible way a parkzone vapor could be dangerous, in any way, flown into anything from anywhere?

At a full dive from 100ft, if the wings didn't shear off, it could hit me in the forehead and be less risk than children at bat at a little league game.

100% of all real issues with urban FPV are about weight and nothing else.

We've moved park fliers into front yard flyers with the advent of these ultra micro craft, and yes, people fpv these too. They are all out of ama compliance, so attack! Ama compliance doesn't cover someone's front yard on a block, ever, yet we all read magazine pics of this going on and the convenience of this activity.


Double standard. put a camera on a micro, and topspin is in shambles, unless we can get him to state a flying oz weight that we all agree is safe.

I hope my vid makes us think about our subjective standards and how they are changing. I agree my flights would be safer with an ultra lite...but this 30oz slow stick is the bare minimum for 5 mph winds I can't go lighter or I'll never fly lol

Some may ask what my limits within the law would be, thats subjective too. for me, I wouldn't fly down the middle of town over the highly active streets. My quiet steets around my block are sans traffic enough for me to be safe. its legal to do both, but I choose this limitation cuz thats where my line is.


< Message edited by brandon429 -- 10/13/2012 10:13 PM >

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/13/2012 10:23 PM   
countilaw



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Status: offline 		Brandon,  for someone that feels that they are in the  right,      you sure are defensive.   

If a person has a fence around their yard and the gate is closed,    they have the  expected right to privacy.     If you climb over that fence,   or  fly over it,   you are invading that person's  right to privacy.     

Also known as    Trespassing !!! 


Now, you are also a peeping Tom.   

Both of which are illegal and not just for any government body,  but as a private citizen.    

So why don't we all go over to your house and watch your  wife, mom or sister ,  which it would be ,  change clothes or shower or whatever they may be doing at the time. 

After all,     you said that we wouldn't be breaking any laws.  


It's people like you that we have so many laws and regulations.     You think  you can do whatever you want, whenever you want,  only because someone hasn't written it down as   ILLEGAL !!!   

If people like you used common sense and had  a regard of others,   we wouldn't need most of the stupid laws  we now have on the books.

Grow up!!!

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/13/2012 10:53 PM   
brandon429


 

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Status: offline 		We make sure we have privacy before getting nude lol
by taking time to actually know the laws, its easy to be both in compliance and still retain privacy neat idea to consider! Not that 'they' can't zap me with an IR cam from above and see my wonderful curves scrubbing down in the shower, still don't care. I do not care who films me or anyone else, its the coming way, at least be a co-filmer I always say but not to see people, just to see the sky from the view of a real pilot.


BTW, its a billion times more dangerous for full scale craft to fly over my house, how dare they. In a worst case scenario, something ya'll like to ponder, who wants the cessna or the slow stick!


Ok, so you didn't read the links I posted and went off emotion, pretty common. Nothing is illegal here, at least read the link I posted about that verification.

FPV'rs have a lot to learn about legal compliance before they begin their art, if they care, and I did.

So, Im awaiting someone who actually knows what they are talking about, crickets sounding etc

Frank/countilaw you could spend some countless hours on the websites that show google earth catching, in much higher res, all the silly things people do in their back and front yards, check it.
That being said, I have no disagreement with you not liking cameras flying over your house, please get your congressman to change that and all legally compliant FPV'rs will follow suit.

Also, get google earth to change as well double standard guy (do you get what Im saying_)

< Message edited by brandon429 -- 10/14/2012 8:56 AM >

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/13/2012 10:56 PM   
brandon429


 

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From: Olfen, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Let me summarize your post:

I hate your little camera plane that on your video has such crappy resolution you can barely see blurry street lights, but google earth can zoom in to reveal the color of my dog bowl and Im ok with that.

All users of google earth are the toms you mentioned lol

I have a park flyer for my avatar, and I fly that in parks, and haven't read anything in this post other than watching the first minute of the video posted, getting on the ama bandwagon, and posting away.

I feel it should be illegal what you are doing, but I can't find any actual links to the contrary after you've stated you are positive it is legal in your city in TX. I didn't read the link posted about the guy reviewing the legality of AR drones ran off an ipad, but I wanted to chime in anyway with my thoughts.

What you are doing bothers me, though if you build one small enough I'd like to purchase it.
that about right?

< Message edited by brandon429 -- 10/14/2012 9:20 AM >

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/13/2012 11:19 PM   
brandon429


 

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From: Olfen, TX, USA
Status: offline 		So, its hippocritical when:

-we are ok with google earth and not fpv over our backyards

-we fly any airplane by rc, any size/weight/, anywhere but an ama sanctioned field that is ONLY used for rc

-its ultra mega obviously a double standard if you would fly a parkzone vapor in your front yard, or in your house, since AMA restricts totally flying rc around persons or property.
The reason you overlook that obvious rule, is because you needed to find wiggle room the AMA and its old doctrine didn't bother governing for you. Obviously a 15gm flier doesn't pose the risks old fashioned rc used to, and thats what I think of a 30oz park flyer.

Again, Im not trolling, Im seeing how well thought out you guys' arguments are and how well it compares to similar technology that is exactly FPV impactful but we dont see it like that.

< Message edited by brandon429 -- 10/13/2012 11:49 PM >

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/13/2012 11:22 PM   
brandon429


 

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Status: offline 		the new requirement of this thread is you can't drop off a statement and then not post back when its diced like so much onion. You have to actually repost and work through the comparisons given.

We aren't going to agree, ever, but your anti urban fpv post needs to include:

-thoughts on the link I posted about legal drone filming of public vantage points, how thats different from me looking at you off a mountain with a telescope, how that differs from google earth etc

-the actual legality of FPV you have verified, not what you think it should be

-the difference betwen park flying and what Ive posted.


it is illegal to take pictures or video in some areas of restriction. Find out where those are before posting.
All other areas, including your backyard even if you are nude in it is totally legal even though I don't want to see you, the internet is much more higher res.

the legality of drone filming in the US
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/12/10/if-i-fly-a-uav-over-my-neighbors-house-is-it-trespassing/263431/


Make sure not to repeat the posts of others who wrote this stuff and then disappeared, that stifles learning.
Also include in your dissertation how honoring AMA compliance at a public/non rc park makes your plane less likely to impact someone's head.

< Message edited by brandon429 -- 10/14/2012 9:22 AM >

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/13/2012 11:53 PM   
brandon429


 

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Status: offline 		watch ahead for posters jumping on the bandwagon who post but don't actually contribute, adds to the distraction from the issue at hand.

< Message edited by brandon429 -- 10/15/2012 2:31 AM >

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 12:01 AM   
KaP2011


 

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Status: offline 		Brandon you seem to be arguing with yourself. Are you winning or loseing?


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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 12:05 AM   
scale only 4 me



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quote:

ORIGINAL: brandon429

Agreed, if laws change around that i totally understand and will comply

But my comparison is to ama sanctioned park flying, the park visitors didn't give y'all permission to crash a foamy into their baby carriage its just the ama compliant group doesn't care since they set an intended flight path

All i mean is that park flying is the same risk i take, ama had no bearing on risk to others.

If we aren't flying in an rc specific park, you have to lump all park flyers in the same group as me imo.

So Im not talking about rc dedicated fields...the pro ama group always compare what I do to their rules, and I looked them up, they say you can make any park your own flight area without problem and without the permission of those around you enjoying a walk in the park. That, to me, is a double standard galore. Theres no way ama adherence is safer in that regard when people are actually present. My way is undeniably safer to people, without question, and equally risky to property.




Brandon,

I wouldn't and don't fly in a populated park situations either,, for the same reasons,, too many unsuspecting bystanders not aware of the hazards of the activity I'd be subjecting them to. Just because many people do, doesn't make that right either.

The privacy issue is really ridiculous, not like you were videoing people at all,, and really, when my curtains are open or I'm in my back yard, I have no expectation of privacy,, that part of the other guys arguments is stupid in my mind.

last year this knucklhead posted a video of himself flying a electric speed type plane from a car while his girl freind was doing 70 + on the highway, he's flying, his girlfriend is driving the car and running the video camera. He thought he wasn't doing anything wrong too. Now IMO that was seriously stupid,, what you're doing is just slightly risky. I have to say you're leaving youself open to liability for just a little fun,, be careful.


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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 12:43 AM   
oliveDrab



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Status: offline 		Yo Brandon -

It looks like you're only 60 miles from our club field in San Angelo, Texas. Come on over on a Friday, Saturday, or Sunday evening and fly your night flyer. You'd find some like-minded flyers there. Or maybe you're already there for our FlyIn this Saturday, sunday October 13,14.

I Googled "Olfen, Texas". It's listed as a West Texas ghost town, although the bright lights in that night video don't look like a ghost town.


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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 12:47 AM   
scale only 4 me



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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 3:36 AM   
mr_matt



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quote:

ORIGINAL: brandon429

Agreed, if laws change around that i totally understand and will comply



Here is something you don't seem to "totally understand"......it is guys like you doing stuff like this that ends up getting the laws changed....don't you get that??

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 3:41 AM   
brandon429


 

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From: Olfen, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I disagree due to the recent faa meeting regarding civilian uavs, google that detail its amazing.

do you all honestly not think the faa has seen the countless youtube vids about what we do>? they just convened in april I think it was, and said "have at it we'll check back in 2015" and then will update the laws.

part of the unending anti fpv hype is that we are making laws stricter, not the case. we haven't affected laws in the least.


at least you wrote something on point thanks Matt. Also, I want the gray areas gone, that sucks the most. I already follow the law exactly and its never good enough geeze

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 4:49 AM  1 votes
jester_s1


 

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Status: offline 		If your local laws actually do allow you to fly and RC plane over houses without the consent of the owners then I suppose it's no harm done on that front. I still don't like what you did though on the basis of every RC pilot's duty to represent the hobby well to the public. I know that your plane couldn't crash through a roof and hurt someone, but that doesn't mean everyone knows that. I can also believe that you have the skills to pull off what you did, but not everyone knows that. Also, not everyone who will get the bright idea to mimic what you did has those skills either. Responsible flying is more than just not putting others at risk. It is making it clear to others that you are not putting them at risk so that they think of the hobby as harmless and RC pilots as responsible guys. I don't believe that you portrayed us that way in what you did, nor in posting a video about it online. I also don't believe you've portrayed us as courteous and mature in the posts you've made either, although you could have. Even if what you did was safe (and I'm not convinced it was as safe as you make it out to be), this is negative PR overall. We don't have many legal regulations now specifically because as a community we've done such a good job of self-regulating. The new breed of park pilots don't seem to see a need for that, so because of videos like this and responses like what you've given we likely will face regulations in the future.

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 5:06 AM   
chris923


 

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Status: offline 		The Fpver's won't be happy until the FAA, state and local goverments make a law to ban them, JUST FOR THEM! But it won't effect just them, it will affect any one tossing a parkflyer in a open
or unopen area. JUST BECAUSE IT"S LEGAL>>>> DOES NOT MEAN IT"S RIGHT!!!!

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 5:17 AM  1 votes
brandon429


 

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Status: offline 		Well said and valid points. I felt a little unjustly attacked, my first post was simply showing my night launch.


One thing i could do to improve safety would be to convert it into a pusher setup, might just do.

There were rather harsh initial attacks, and some complete mis statements too. The initial responses combined misinformation with emotion, makes for a rough start

If i was flying like this with a park zone ember would that be ok jester, what's your weight limits


Since we're making sense now I'd like to know where your line is between park flying, and home block flying what i do. A trojan is in between a vapor/ember and a slow stick, maybe that's ok?

Consider my view though in loading the video. I took into account the comparisons to park flying, the fact no one is out at midnight, the quality of my prep, other peoples perceptions are their responsibility imo. I loaded it from a different viewpoint than you guys view it from, thought it was a segue into a discussion about the inevitable. It seemed to me that meeting all the license requirements was a sign of me doing what's required.

It simply doesn't matter if people make wrong assumptions, my job is to be legal not an ambassador. my vids don't make others contemplate stupidity any more than a base jumpers vid makes me want to jump off a cliff.

Once we all agree on what size plane is rightly flown with a mini can from any front yard, I want to revisit rules/actions you thought could never be justified. Currently I'm expecting to see anyone here against my flights destroying any thread where micro flyers buzz around someones yard, cuz i think that's the same

< Message edited by brandon429 -- 10/14/2012 6:01 AM >

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 6:07 AM   
brandon429


 

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Status: offline 		The progression of the thread started off with hey that's illegal and terrible, to ok its not illegal but i still hate it, to i refuse to answer whether or not a pz vapor should be allowed over my house and this is poor representation. Couple more steps and we'll be in a neat place





I've brought up too many points to keep expecting discussion, so my most important discovery to be made is whether or not staunch ama supporters care if i fly around with a parkzone Vapor. maybe the three foot wingspan of a flimsy gws model was overdoing it, go smaller and you'll relent.

Lets test your thinking further: a pz vapor with no cam, only gps guidance for way point travel
and it flies right over your house at one am.

Now what...we removed the hyperbolic privacy banter, we removed liability in so many ways a counter cant be written, so what's left? You hate it still i know. If we could just get back to the days of a co2 motor and control lines you'll sleep better.


Once we say yes to vapor flights around the block, or continue to not talk about it in subsequent posts, the first several responses to this video are effectively null and void, just emotion. You have a subjective weight issue, and that's about it, but it had to be shown to those who didn't self assess it out of failure to examine real issues not just hype.
City ordinances about park flying are just like chihuahua owners breaking leash laws, or me letting my alley weeds get overgrown

don't make city ordinance all big now, like you never chipped a little wedge golf club action in the no no grass.

5grams flying over your house, nobody cares sans camera. 30 ounces and mild cam, you care. Guy looking at your house from telescope and mountain top, out of sight out of mind. The difference between a picture or a live motion color vid was never a concern before, can the telescope guy film, or just look? There's a ten ounce all flights allowed crew out there, speak up don't fear the majority.

most of you have a tipping point in grams, your stance isn't super firm. Some of you can be swayed to allowing urban flights if you just remove the cam, unity is also lacking in the knee jerk hate fpv crowd.

Also, don't act like i got lucky and am in the one city that allows aerial, non profit filming from public vantage points be they terra firma or the sky...i challenge you in a friendly way jester to post me a link of an American city that forbids it.

I'm sure there are some, but the link digging will further evolve your take on the matter even if you can't admit it in front of the guys.

< Message edited by brandon429 -- 10/14/2012 9:38 AM >

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 7:00 AM   
thepamster


 

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Status: offline 		Brandon. You joined RCU in 2005 and it seems most of your posts have been in this thread. Where have you been? It seems you just came here looking for a fight and you found it.
 If you flew your non-lethal park flyer over a house, over a road, at night, and you can't even see the plane at all with your eyes, you are irresponsible and should be banned from r/c flight for ever.
What if you loose your camera and someone drives by, even after midnight, you hit their windshield, they crash and die. Guess who gets the blame? All of us. Thanks for that.
Also, don't correct other peoples' spelling unless your spelling and GRAMMER is perfect. Or is it "are" perfect. I am sure you'll tell me.


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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 7:05 AM   
brandon429


 

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Status: offline 		You read this whole thread and still wrote that, wow. Wait, you didn't read the thread. You skimmed. No other threads revealed such well thought out boundaries before this one, guess you can label me intrigued.
Kap made himself an easy pick i had to take it.
Since i basically already wrote that scenario word for word, in anticipation, and provided the examples of following ama rules in a park and having your trojan lose signal and fly into a head you have only revealed yourself as a proxy account for kap now we know where u been all these yearz

You are drawing on worst case scenarios we'd face if following ama rules for park flying, next. Enjoy your one post. You've introduced completely new logic here and my thread was made better by it.

< Message edited by brandon429 -- 10/14/2012 9:40 AM >

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 7:07 AM   
mr_matt



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quote:

ORIGINAL: brandon429

Also, don't act like i got lucky and am in the one city that allows aerial, non profit filming from public vantage points be they terra firma or the sky...i challenge you in a friendly way jester to post me a link of an American city that forbids it.


I live in an American city that does not allow any flying in any park because certain self proclaimed jailhouse lawyers performed similar mental gymnastics....."no one could tell them what to do", "we aren't breaking the law".....blah blah....now no flying in any park, cameras or no, 50 grams or .05 grams

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 7:08 AM   
brandon429


 

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Status: offline 		Matt post the city ordinance let me fact check. Maybe we won't fly from a park in your city, i wasn't flying from a park in mine.

So you live in a city where pz vapors are outlawed? I want that kind of protection.

See my post about tall weeds in the alley. I think you aren't going to post the proof are you man.

< Message edited by brandon429 -- 10/14/2012 7:48 AM >

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 7:16 AM   
thepamster


 

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Status: offline 		Brandon. I read the whole thread and i still think you should be banned from rc.


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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 7:19 AM   
brandon429


 

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Status: offline 		And you from any kind of introspective thought participation, you didn't state your case about the parkzone yes or no.

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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 7:23 AM   
thepamster


 

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Status: offline 		I have nothing against park flyers or fpv, but at night, over houses. That is just stupid.
That is all I have to say about this trolling bait topic. So I am out....


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RE: garage launch slowstick 12am - 10/14/2012 7:25 AM   
brandon429


 

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Status: offline 		Ok so three posts. If i was in a park at night and not by cam you are fine with it, park flyers can't veer off into traffic that brings cars to the park, that's what you would have written if your goal was to contribute anything material. You said not over houses, but in front of them at a park is ok, we need new anti fpv material that's not as wishy-washy. Isn't a roof more resistant to my plane than a window with your sideways trajectory compliant rig hurling at it?


this is a discussion about your weight requirements for neighborhood flying

that's now the reduced issue at hand. I've exceeded the weight restrictions, what should they be.

Define the weight that allows you to break the rules of the ama and fly rc around people and property, its a requirement for posting here.
One hundred percent of rc pilots believe a plantraco butterfly is acceptable, start there. You can write no logical scenario where all urban rc is banned. All the 'fpvrs' need to do now is build gear that confirms to your subjective whims, and you would all be willing video pilots.

but lets hate the thirty ounce guy.



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