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Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/2/2012 11:53 PM   
FenderBean



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Status: offline 		I am just curious? Someday I plan to move this way but it seems you need lots of money to compete in the jet arena. Do they have sponsors or just split the cost and work together to produce a final product? Or is it all that?
Just pondering thanks


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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/2/2012 11:57 PM   
ianober



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Status: online 		From what I have seen you usually have a Owner/Builder of the aircraft and then a Pilot who does all the flying in terms of team competition. I personally would like to be the pilot, seems cheaper!!!

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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/3/2012 12:09 AM   
Greg Wright


 

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Status: offline 		Are we talking about the jet world masters or the U.S Scale masters. If it is the JWM then all of the guys on the U.S team build and own there own planes and they are not sponsored it all comes out of there own pockets. From the building of the plane, to the flying they do it all. They even have to put out the money to travel to which ever country they are going to compete in. If you are talking about the U.S scale masters then that's a different story because they have two different classes. There is the expert class were the builder is the owner/pilot and in the team scale class there is the builder/owner & then the pilot is the other member of the team, but he can also help with the building of the plane with out sacrificing there score. I believe they also have a Pro/Am class were the rules are different and i'm not sure how that works.

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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/3/2012 12:10 AM   
hooker53



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Status: offline 		Fender. It's a combo of all you said most of the time. No one is gonna sponsor a team until they see you have the goods to place.

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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/3/2012 12:46 AM   
FenderBean



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Status: offline 		just wondering, the jets used seem to be cost a lot is why I asked just wondering about it. I have never been to one since the events are never close enough for me to travel to. I dont think I could afford the jets with the scale required even if I wanted to


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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/3/2012 3:31 AM   
DavidR



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quote:

ORIGINAL: FenderBean

just wondering, the jets used seem to be cost a lot is why I asked just wondering about it. I have never been to one since the events are never close enough for me to travel to. I dont think I could afford the jets with the scale required even if I wanted to


That depends on if you are a "buyer flier" or if you are a "builder flyer" it doesn't cost much more than time to build a competitive scale airplane, but if you want to Buy one ready to compete, you gots to pay the builder.....


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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/3/2012 4:26 AM   
rhklenke



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greg Wright

Are we talking about the jet world masters or the U.S Scale masters. If it is the JWM then all of the guys on the U.S team build and own there own planes and they are not sponsored it all comes out of there own pockets. From the building of the plane, to the flying they do it all. They even have to put out the money to travel to which ever country they are going to compete in. If you are talking about the U.S scale masters then that's a different story because they have two different classes. There is the expert class were the builder is the owner/pilot and in the team scale class there is the builder/owner & then the pilot is the other member of the team, but he can also help with the building of the plane with out sacrificing there score. I believe they also have a Pro/Am class were the rules are different and i'm not sure how that works.


I think you're confusing the U.S. Scale Masters with Top Gun. The Scale Masters has four classes, Expert, Team, Advanced, and Open. Top Gun has the Expert, Team, Masters and Unlimited classes as well as the Pro-Am class you are talking about that is sub-divided into two classes, Pro-Am Pro, and Pro-Am Sport. The WJM has two classes - based on weight, 13.5 kg and 20.0 kg.

You've got to read the rules themselves (all on the web) to see who/what qualifies for which class in either competition - they are not exactly the same.

There may be a few exceptions here and there, but the *vast* majority of scale competitors (U.S. Scale Masters, Top Gun, or WJM) pay their own way - they pay for the aircraft, flying costs, travel costs, etc. "Sponsored pilots" get a break on costs, but even they usually have to pay *something* for the equipment and I don't think any of them get travel allowances, etc...

Bob

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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/3/2012 4:29 AM   
FenderBean



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Status: offline 		I didnt know if the cost kept people to doing a team projects or if most just built and fly their own. Looks like it can be both depending on the event


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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/3/2012 4:59 AM   
PaulD



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Status: offline 		A buddy of mine went to the WJM in Dayton, OH and while he said there were a few guys like him who were self funded the guys who were in the running we're all sporting teams with a payroll. Kinda takes the hobby side out of the competition IMO.

PaulD


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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/3/2012 6:08 AM   
quist



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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhklenke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greg Wright

Are we talking about the jet world masters or the U.S Scale masters. If it is the JWM then all of the guys on the U.S team build and own there own planes and they are not sponsored it all comes out of there own pockets. From the building of the plane, to the flying they do it all. They even have to put out the money to travel to which ever country they are going to compete in. If you are talking about the U.S scale masters then that's a different story because they have two different classes. There is the expert class were the builder is the owner/pilot and in the team scale class there is the builder/owner & then the pilot is the other member of the team, but he can also help with the building of the plane with out sacrificing there score. I believe they also have a Pro/Am class were the rules are different and i'm not sure how that works.


I think you're confusing the U.S. Scale Masters with Top Gun. The Scale Masters has four classes, Expert, Team, Advanced, and Open. Top Gun has the Expert, Team, Masters and Unlimited classes as well as the Pro-Am class you are talking about that is sub-divided into two classes, Pro-Am Pro, and Pro-Am Sport. The WJM has two classes - based on weight, 13.5 kg and 20.0 kg.

You've got to read the rules themselves (all on the web) to see who/what qualifies for which class in either competition - they are not exactly the same.

There may be a few exceptions here and there, but the *vast* majority of scale competitors (U.S. Scale Masters, Top Gun, or WJM) pay their own way - they pay for the aircraft, flying costs, travel costs, etc. ''Sponsored pilots'' get a break on costs, but even they usually have to pay *something* for the equipment and I don't think any of them get travel allowances, etc...

Bob




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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/3/2012 2:34 PM   
shepp


 

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Status: offline 		Fenderbean,
Not sure if you are aware of it, but if you looked at Scotts F-86 at Super Jets South, last weekend. You were looking at the 2012 US Scale Masters Grand Champion. I know he built it as I watched it through construction. I don't believe he had any finiancial assistance either. It has competed at Top Gun, WJM, and US scale masters. The thing that amazes me is , he flys it like a sport jet. lol

Glenn

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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/3/2012 3:04 PM   
rhklenke



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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaulD

A buddy of mine went to the WJM in Dayton, OH and while he said there were a few guys like him who were self funded the guys who were in the running we're all sporting teams with a payroll. Kinda takes the hobby side out of the competition IMO.

PaulD


That may be true for other countries, and certainly the Russian Yak that won the WJM was done by a well-funded team (not sure where the funds came from though), but I'm 99% sure that all of the U.S. Team members funded (and built, I think) their own aircraft and their attendance at the event. I think the U.S. Team takes donations to help off-set the travel costs (Roger?), but I'd bet that it doesn't cover it all. Some of the U.S. Team members work in the model industry, but they still did their own thing for the WJM competition.

Its really fantastic to see planes like the Yak, but it would also be nice to have a class at the WJM that had a "builder of the model" rule to level the playing field for those that don't have a "consortium" working for them...

Bob

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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/3/2012 3:53 PM   
Bob_B



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Status: offline 		My understanding is that owner/ pilot of the yak130 is very wealthy and well connected to the factory. It is a stunning model.

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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/3/2012 4:01 PM   
FenderBean



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Status: offline 		Yeah i saw the 86 and didnt know that, it does appear that the only way to be in those type of events is either to be well funded or a team pooling resources.


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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/3/2012 4:08 PM   
powerjets


 

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This Dutch F-16 was build AND flown by Gerald Rutten, no team, no sponsors, just a lot of incredible hard work as he also made/designed the Landing gear and Turbine himself !!

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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/3/2012 4:25 PM   
schroedm



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Status: offline 		I believe the Yak is "owned" by Yakolev now as part of the deal for the factory's input into the design/build etc. That model will always be an exception - and a stunning model for it even if not really 'playing fair' .

As for costs of all the scale WJM models, I think you're assuming they're stupid money. To be honest I dare say most are purchased and kitted out at a discount (not free) as those that compete at world level are likely to be known/accomplished pilots who manufacturers wouldn't mind 'subsidising' in order to see their equipment represented at world level. Cheap advertising etc....

The number of BVM Ultra Bandits and P200 combos flying around the US means there are plenty of people with the cash to enter the WJM with a competitive model. The new C-ARF/Skygate Hawk is a great example of a WJM quality model that won't bust the bank.

Having said that, there is no hobby/discipline you can compete with at World Championship level "cheaply". It's always going to cost but I don't think the model cost should be prohibitive. Flying skills, building skills, time off work, time for practice etc - they're you're biggest hurdles to overcome!!!



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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/3/2012 4:57 PM   
DocYates



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Status: offline 		I have served in some capacity on the WJM-USA team for the past 10 years. Other than an occasional receiver and minimal assistance from some vendors, the costs are all taken care of by the pilots. It can be very expensive. I know the trip to the Hungary and North Ireland costs well over $15K when you figure in the cost of a competitive plane, 10-12 days of hotel accomodations, food, travel to the site, rental cars, registration fees, and one of the biggest costs - shipping of the crate.
Now the question is does the "guys work together"? and to that I say an affirmative yes. Sometimes these guys live many states away and don't fly togther but when they get to the WJM, they are a TEAM. I have seen guys spend all night helping a fellow team member, and sometimes a competitor, fix a model that was damaged. I have seen Scott Harris actually donate one of his planes to another team when their plane was damaged prior to the beginning of the competition. These guys are salt of the earth and it is a shame that some of the companies do not do more to help them when they go off to compete. I know in the past that Kingtech and JetCentral both provided turbines to the team members and if they used them in competition they were allowed to keep them. Some did, some did not. But Barry and Eric both stepped up to the plate as far as I am concerned and I give credit to both of them for their generosity.
I said of that to say this, if you are serious about competing in the WJM plan on spending the money. It is not cheap, but it is a fantastic experience and you will meet some amazing people. If you told me when I was a teenager that one day I would get to drink ice cold Vodka with a Russian while sitting next to a B-52 in a hangar at the USAF Museum I would have told you that you were crazy.

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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/3/2012 11:09 PM   
SeaLance


 

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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/4/2012 12:37 AM   
oneaew@msn.com


 

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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/4/2012 1:00 AM   
FenderBean



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Status: offline 		Well some people who just build love that and others hate to build bit love to fly. That i understand but i would doubt someone splits the bill and has nothing but bragging rights. I guess that could happen if you were rich, bored and no talent.


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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/4/2012 3:06 AM   
DavidR



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quote:

ORIGINAL: FenderBean

Well some people who just build love that and others hate to build bit love to fly. That i understand but i would doubt someone splits the bill and has nothing but bragging rights. I guess that could happen if you were rich, bored and no talent.


It's been going on since there have been competitions.

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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/4/2012 3:09 AM   
oneaew@msn.com


 

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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/4/2012 5:01 AM   
FenderBean



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Status: offline 		I think the only way I would even consider a venture was if I did it all myself, I know I could build one and detail it. Maybe some day I can afford my dream jet and enter it into a state side event. Well Thanks for the info guys, it seems every area in rc has this same problem.


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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/4/2012 1:34 PM   
DocYates



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Status: offline 		When I see people like Scott, Rod, Dustin, and Jason, who all dedicate countless hours to building and loving a plane, and then go out and fly it "balls to the wall", put it up against some of the toughest judges from other countries you will ever face, and use their own money to do it, I see a real competitive spirit. Those guys build their own, fly their own, and face the critics. Then there are guys like Graeme Mears who can build the most beautiful aircraft you have ever seen. He has forgotten more about model building than most of us will ever know, but he does not fly competitively. So he takes the plane and puts it in the hands of someone who can showcase it, like Ali or David Shulman, and that takes it one step further. Don't hate the players, hate the game. The rules are written so that it can include both groups.
For me, the experience was not whether we won or lost, but about the experience and the comaraderie you got to experience along the way. That is worth a helluva lot more than a little silver plated trophy. You can get that same experience in a local competition without the huge expense, so go for it.

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RE: Do scale master jet guys work as a team? - 10/4/2012 5:31 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DocYates

When I see people like Scott, Rod, Dustin, and Jason, who all dedicate countless hours to building and loving a plane, and then go out and fly it ''balls to the wall'', put it up against some of the toughest judges from other countries you will ever face, and use their own money to do it, I see a real competitive spirit. Those guys build their own, fly their own, and face the critics. Then there are guys like Graeme Mears who can build the most beautiful aircraft you have ever seen. He has forgotten more about model building than most of us will ever know, but he does not fly competitively. So he takes the plane and puts it in the hands of someone who can showcase it, like Ali or David Shulman, and that takes it one step further. Don't hate the players, hate the game. The rules are written so that it can include both groups.
For me, the experience was not whether we won or lost, but about the experience and the comaraderie you got to experience along the way. That is worth a helluva lot more than a little silver plated trophy. You can get that same experience in a local competition without the huge expense, so go for it.

'
+1

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