RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/6/2012 4:50 PM

rcairflr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ddaveb

If they only wanted to crash it they should have used a Spektrum radio .

That is funny (although, I don't think the Spektrum owners will think so)

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/6/2012 7:05 PM

dirtybird

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hossfly

quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtybird

quote:

ORIGINAL: rgburrill

quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtybird
I would like to know how the pilot bailed out. After D B Cooper bailed out the rear door they made impossible to open that door in flight. We don't even know if cooper survived the jump. Its hard to walk down a stair in a 200mph wind.

The rear air stairs on a 727 go under the tail not out the side.

Who said anything about the side?
It would be impossible to go out the side. The stabilizer would make chopped meat out of you.
You would have to go out that under the tail door. Even so you wouldn't get far down those stairs in that wind. I really doubt you could get out without hitting something.
You would have to take those stairs and the door completely off and have an open space to jump into. Even so that 200 mile wind will be a sever shock when you hit it. I doubt many would survive.
Paratroupers jump out the back of their airplane but they are well conditioned individuals. You see them jumping out the side but the airplane has dropped down to a very slow speed. You can't slow that 727 to much below 200mph

dirtybird, you are a long time modeler, some 66 years, however you have many misconceptions concerning the Boeing 727. I have not paid much attention to the 727 ''Crash'' but sometime ago, soon to be 17 years, I set the parking brake for the last time and left my old friend, the 727. During 28 years of airline time, the 727 was my main machine, in 4 versions, having some 12000+ hours there in all positions, 2nd Officer, First Officer, and Captain. Those times were interspaced with times in the 737, DC-8, and DC-10.
Yes you can slow a 727 considerably below 200 mph. You do not have to have the landing gear extended to have the flaps down for lower speeds at various flap extensions. Below flaps-25 you get a horn blowing if the gear is not down, but a circuit breaker can silence that. The rear stairs can be used as an escape door. The horizontal stabilizer is very high on the vertical stab and would not be a problem. OTOH, engines 1 & 3 just may well be such for a side jump!!! Approach and landing speeds were a function of weight at any given time.
BTW, I had a couple years in the USAF C-123, a fun machine, and deployed paratroopers many times, all out the back.

Of course you were right about the stab. I was thinking about the 737.
However, when I participated in flight test for Boeing as a flight test engineer, it was not considered safe to get below 200mph.
If you found otherwise, I am glad to say I was not aboard when you tried it out.
Its not the first time a pilot has done things considered questionable.
Remember Tex Johnson rolling the 707 prototype? He almost caused the CEO of Boeing to have a heart attack.

< Message edited by dirtybird -- 10/6/2012 9:18 PM >

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/6/2012 7:45 PM

GerKonig

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rcairflr

quote:

ORIGINAL: ddaveb

If they only wanted to crash it they should have used a Spektrum radio .

That is funny (although, I don't think the Spektrum owners will think so)

Spectrum was considered, but the aircraft did not have enough room for all the satellite receivers...

Gerry

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/6/2012 11:24 PM

lopflyers

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They considered Spektrum but later decided it was a waste to crash a perfectly working system, someone else could use it again.

On the other hand Futaba is ok to crash and trash.

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/7/2012 12:06 AM

Bozarth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtybird
...Even so that 200 mile wind will be a sever shock when you hit it. I doubt many would survive.
...

Aren't you going 200 mph when you jump out?

Kurt

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/7/2012 1:10 AM

G4guy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtybird

quote:

ORIGINAL: supersparky

Check the landing speeds, a loaded 727 has approach speed of about 130 knots.

Right. But you won't fly very long at that speed. And that is with the wheels down and flaps deployed. It wouldn't be very smart to jump out and leave the aircraft in that condition.

what do you mean you wont fly very long at that speed? if your approach speed is 130 kts or 150 knots, that aircraft would fly all day at the speed.Approach speed is generally 1.3 the stall speed.

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/7/2012 1:11 AM

pdm52956

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtybird

However, when I participated in flight test for Boeing as a flight test engineer, it was not considered safe to get below 200mph.
If you found otherwise, I am glad to say I was not aboard when you tried it out.
Its not the first time a pilot has done things considered questionable.

The Boeing 727-200 Performance Handbook calls out a stall speed of 139 KIAS for an aircraft weighing 130,000 lbs with flaps up. Considerably lower than 200 KIAS and I wouldn't think that the aircraft they were going to crash would be outfitted to where it would approach that weight anyway.

That same handbook calls out a stall speed of 163 KIAS for a -200 weighing 170,000 lbs with flaps up. That stall speed decreases as flaps are extended. At 170,000 lbs with flaps at 25, stall speed is 111 KIAS. Pretty slow.

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/7/2012 1:13 AM

pilotpete2

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If one took the time to find out just how many people have actually have used the 727 rear stairs to jump, they wouldn't look foolish telling a 727 captain what the plane was capable of

Three more copycat skyjackings followed the D.B. Cooper affair in 1972 alone, all three perps were later captured, all survived the jump. At the World Free-fall Convention in August 2000. 180 skydivers paid 59 bucks each to skydive off the rear stairs of a 727 from 14,000' at 155 knots. I would have to assume the crew was on oxygen and the plane wasn't pressurized in this case.
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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/7/2012 5:43 AM

dirtybird

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OK I give up.
But you had better stay off that rudder at that speed.
We had a case where a pilot from some airline put in to much rudder on approach and it snapped.
It was a 720 I think. It was 50 years ago.
My supervisor on AWACS was one of the survivors.

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/7/2012 6:28 AM

Paul_BB

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtybird

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hossfly

quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtybird

quote:

ORIGINAL: rgburrill

quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtybird
I would like to know how the pilot bailed out. After D B Cooper bailed out the rear door they made impossible to open that door in flight. We don't even know if cooper survived the jump. Its hard to walk down a stair in a 200mph wind.

The rear air stairs on a 727 go under the tail not out the side.

Who said anything about the side?
It would be impossible to go out the side. The stabilizer would make chopped meat out of you.
You would have to go out that under the tail door. Even so you wouldn't get far down those stairs in that wind. I really doubt you could get out without hitting something.
You would have to take those stairs and the door completely off and have an open space to jump into. Even so that 200 mile wind will be a sever shock when you hit it. I doubt many would survive.
Paratroupers jump out the back of their airplane but they are well conditioned individuals. You see them jumping out the side but the airplane has dropped down to a very slow speed. You can't slow that 727 to much below 200mph

dirtybird, you are a long time modeler, some 66 years, however you have many misconceptions concerning the Boeing 727. I have not paid much attention to the 727 ''Crash'' but sometime ago, soon to be 17 years, I set the parking brake for the last time and left my old friend, the 727. During 28 years of airline time, the 727 was my main machine, in 4 versions, having some 12000+ hours there in all positions, 2nd Officer, First Officer, and Captain. Those times were interspaced with times in the 737, DC-8, and DC-10.
Yes you can slow a 727 considerably below 200 mph. You do not have to have the landing gear extended to have the flaps down for lower speeds at various flap extensions. Below flaps-25 you get a horn blowing if the gear is not down, but a circuit breaker can silence that. The rear stairs can be used as an escape door. The horizontal stabilizer is very high on the vertical stab and would not be a problem. OTOH, engines 1 & 3 just may well be such for a side jump!!![&o] Approach and landing speeds were a function of weight at any given time.
BTW, I had a couple years in the USAF C-123, a fun machine, and deployed paratroopers many times, all out the back.

Of course you were right about the stab. I was thinking about the 737.
However, when I participated in flight test for Boeing as a flight test engineer, it was not considered safe to get below 200mph.
If you found otherwise, I am glad to say I was not aboard when you tried it out.
Its not the first time a pilot has done things considered questionable.
Remember Tex Johnson rolling the 707 prototype? He almost caused the CEO of Boeing to have a heart attack.

Maybe was it considered not safe to fly below 200mph during the test phase, during the exploration of the flight envelope ?
And 200mph is equal to around 170 knots at sea level.

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/7/2012 9:36 AM

Rob2160

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quote:

ORIGINAL: asimatt

Spektrum are JUNK. my friend has lost $18,000.00 in planes this summer. The other day I lost a $500.00 plane.

Statements like this make you look like a bigot.

You would have more credibility if you said something like.. ("I have a friend who has experienced problems with HIS Spektrum radio... etc etc")

Maybe his radio was Faulty and therefore JUNK, but the majority of them are perfect... I have literally thousands of flights with Spektrum.. 2 x DX6i, 2 x DX8s and 1 x DX7s... all perfectly reliable and exactly the same reliability as my Futaba radios..

If you friend has lost $18,000 in planes in one summer.. then he is really doing something wrong...... how many planes is that?

If I lost just two planes to the same TX I would bin it and replace it with another.. Electronics can certainly fail, this can happen with any brand...

My experience with all the latest 2.4Ghz radios (including JR also) has been 100% Perfect across over 30 planes, helis, and small BNF eflite helis...

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/7/2012 11:38 AM

BuschBarber

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob2160

quote:

ORIGINAL: asimatt

Spektrum are JUNK. my friend has lost $18,000.00 in planes this summer. The other day I lost a $500.00 plane.

Statements like this make you look like a bigot.

You would have more credibility if you said something like.. (''I have a friend who has experienced problems with HIS Spektrum radio... etc etc'')

Maybe his radio was Faulty and therefore JUNK, but the majority of them are perfect... I have literally thousands of flights with Spektrum.. 2 x DX6i, 2 x DX8s and 1 x DX7s... all perfectly reliable and exactly the same reliability as my Futaba radios..

If you friend has lost $18,000 in planes in one summer.. then he is really doing something wrong...... how many planes is that?

If I lost just two planes to the same TX I would bin it and replace it with another.. Electronics can certainly fail, this can happen with any brand...

My experience with all the latest 2.4Ghz radios (including JR also) has been 100% Perfect across over 30 planes, helis, and small BNF eflite helis...

I agree with you and have had Spektrum, JR, Futaba, and Hitec, for years, without issue.

I have attended many RC model meets, but the one that had the most expensive RC models was the Superman Jet Meet. I attended that meet for the last 13 years that it was held. Some of the finest pilots and most expensive jets were flown there. At one event, Wolfgang Klure brought his immaculate scale Mig 29, which he had flown and won at two Jet Scale Masters events. He sold it to a collector for $29,000.

A friend of mine and an excellent jet pilot had a Futaba 12FG radio with hundreds of successful flights on it during the first year he owned it. One day, he lost two jets in an afternoon due to faulty transmitter pots. He had an estimated $15,000 tied up in each jet. He replaced that transmitter with a 12Z and has been flying with it for the past 4 years.

My point is that Yes, RC models can cost $18,000 and you can have a radio fail from any manufacturer at any time. If you lose faith in one manufacturer's radio you move on to another model radio or another manufacturer's radio.

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/7/2012 3:42 PM

hooker53

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I'll be the first to admit I'm no expert on radio propagation but I also can't see why it's difficult to think a handheld TX like ours would not fly that jet. Infeasible? Yes very. Impossible? Don't think so. What I base my statement on and taking into consideration I have not tried it with 2.4 is 72mhz. So with that I will ask. Has anyone ever took a 72 MHz TX with a 10 MW output and stepped out a distance with a field strength meter and did a measurement, than tapped a 15 DB gain Yaggi onto the TX and then remeasured? Yes it's infeasible but possible. Now I know we can't do that with our flying but we are still talki g about flying the 727. Right?

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/7/2012 5:02 PM

bevar

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FWIW...when the pilots bailed out and the jet was being controlled by R/C, it was from a Cessna Skymaster flying formation with it.

One of my friends from work was the man who did it.

Beave

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/7/2012 6:06 PM

dirtybird

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bevar

FWIW...when the pilots bailed out and the jet was being controlled by R/C, it was from a Cessna Skymaster flying formation with it.

One of my friends from work was the man who did it.

Beave

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If that is true I think they should be arrested for public endangerment.
No RF system is 100% reliable. What you do on spacecraft is make the spacecraft able to manage on its own then send programming instructions periodically.
A 727 has only an autopilot. If your RC control failed it would fly off to who knows where.

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/7/2012 7:01 PM

mongo

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Mexico...was done in MEXICO.

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/7/2012 9:56 PM

snir2001

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ddaveb

If they only wanted to crash it they should have used a Spektrum radio .

+

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/7/2012 10:49 PM

acerc

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I have no knowledge of any of this radio talk. But I would have to assume the 8FG was modified in some manner, although I can see where it would not need be, and the receiver was no where near like the reciever that come's with the 8FG. My 8Fg with the R6106HFC had no problem from one mile in distance. The Cesna that flew along did not appear to be 4 to 500ft away.

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/8/2012 7:19 AM

ira d

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I did watch the show tonight and it was stated they used the stock receiver that comes with the radio also they said they only used 3 channels. One thing I do
wonder about is why some type of engine fail safe is not part of the design on airliners that would prevent runaway engines I know the A380 that had a engine
explode also had a engine that could not be shut down.

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/8/2012 2:39 PM

LostParts

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They said on the show the signal range was only 50 yards??? Were they flying the largest aircraft ever with a park flyer receiver?

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/8/2012 4:42 PM

pilotpete2

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Yeah, I caught that one too, sounds like someone misspoke. Their range was certainly reduced, since they just taped the receiver to the inside of a window on the 727.
I wonder if a Mexican Air Force fighter plane, armed with air to air missiles was on station, just in case of a fly away. They did say the plane had 2 hours of fuel on board at the time they crashed it.
Pete

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/8/2012 4:47 PM

pilotpete2

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Yeah, I caught that one too, sounds like someone misspoke. Their range was certainly reduced, since they just taped the receiver to the inside of a window on the 727.
I wonder if a Mexican Air Force fighter plane, armed with air to air missiles was on station, just in case of a fly away. They did say the plane had 2 hours of fuel on board at the time they crashed it.
Pete

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/8/2012 5:01 PM

ira d

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It would seem with the receiver taped to a window as long as the chase plane was on the same side as the receiver was they should have
had at least a mile range. Of course the fact that the chase plane could bearly keep up with the 727 didnt help things.

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/8/2012 10:56 PM

Stan7476

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I would say they got the right radio for the job.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ddaveb

If they only wanted to crash it they should have used a Spektrum radio .

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RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG! - 10/8/2012 11:27 PM

Bozarth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pilotpete2

... a Mexican Air Force fighter plane, armed with air to air missiles was on station, ...

Does Mexico have fighters?

Kurt

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