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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 12:49 AM   
eindecker 3


 

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Status: offline 		Maybe we should send this thread to Tower Hobbies and see what kind of response we would get. I do have a few arfs but I have many kit built planes as well since I love to build and nothing is quite as relaxing as sanding and gluing balsa to make a airplane!

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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 1:59 AM   
91zulu



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Status: offline 		That is why I scratch build. I could build a 100" warbird for under $400 to the same point you get an ARF. If you are a builder it can be done. Now here is an example how it can be done. This is my Ziroli Stuka reduce to 80". The outer ribs are foam board @ $1. per 36x36 sheet. Center ribs are 1/8 ply. There are a few ways to reduce cost going the scratch build route. I will be doing a 90" spitfire next. Ribs and non critical bulk heads will be foam board.

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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 2:01 AM   
91zulu



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Status: offline 		Here. She is not done yet. Will try to do a test flight before it gets cold then do the cockpit and cowl.

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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 2:14 AM   
91zulu



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Status: offline 		Too many folks are buying these ARFs at these prices, so there is no reason for Tower or Topflite to reduce prices. Not going to happen. I could remember I bought a couple CMPro ARFs around 03 - 05 at $125 each at 71". I got the P47, Gee Bee, and the Red Arrow Jet . As we say in my neck of the woods, a sucker is born every day.

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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 2:23 AM   
foodstick



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Status: offline 		Higher labor costs,higher shipping costs, devalued dollar =higher prices

And they will go higher.. I had started a thread awhile back about will arf prices climb up to kit building prices? Arf prices have been low in comparison to time/product value for a long time. I honestly think we will see the variety of wood built arfs drop wy off sometime in the next couple years.... the foam planes will continue to expand I imagine...

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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 2:36 AM   
Tony Iannucelli


 

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Status: online 		There are some other factors affecting the prices of our hobby. The dollar is weak now compared to foreign currencies. The Yen for example. I'm sure OS doesn't want to jack up prices if their profits remain the same or lower. It makes the other engine manufacturers more attractive. How about electronics? I remember paying $40 for one servo a few decades ago. And $500 for a radio system... at a time when I was making about $800 A MONTH. Compare that to our radio prices now. I paid $100 for an Airtronics Acrostar bipe KIT thirty years ago. It included beautiful wood and some good hardware. No covering, no wheels, no spinner, no glue, and it took at least a month of evenings to assemble. Compare that to now... It's all relative.

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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 2:54 AM   
foodstick



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Status: offline 		You are very correct about the tech has come down in cost relative to hours worked to buy it..

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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 3:19 AM   
91zulu



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quote:

ORIGINAL: foodstick

Higher labor costs,higher shipping costs, devalued dollar =higher prices

And they will go higher.. I had started a thread awhile back about will arf prices climb up to kit building prices? Arf prices have been low in comparison to time/product value for a long time. I honestly think we will see the variety of wood built arfs drop wy off sometime in the next couple years.... the foam planes will continue to expand I imagine...



Arf prices were always way higher than kits. Well the TF , ESM and Comp ARF at least.

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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 3:40 AM   
SCALECRAFT



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Status: offline 		If arf prices get higher, will the US start manufacturing them in the states again??


At least keep the $$ at home.

Let's see.

Steve

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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 4:16 AM   
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Status: offline 		Every arf i have seen lately has been poorly constructed, flew horrible, or was god awefull heavy. Not to mention many times the hardware is low quality that needs replacement, gear plates that arent properly secured. The list goes on and on! For me, ill stick with my kits/plans that allow me to build what i want, how i want and i know exactly what kind of quality i get out of the process, no second guessing on if that wing spar was glued in with hot glue, monkey spit or CA

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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 4:34 AM   
speedracerntrixie


 

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ORIGINAL: invertmast

Every arf i have seen lately has been poorly constructed, flew horrible, or was god awefull heavy. Not to mention many times the hardware is low quality that needs replacement, gear plates that arent properly secured. The list goes on and on! For me, ill stick with my kits/plans that allow me to build what i want, how i want and i know exactly what kind of quality i get out of the process, no second guessing on if that wing spar was glued in with hot glue, monkey spit or CA



I am hopeful that this will bring building back into our hobby. I loved when there were lots of cottage industries contributing to our hobby.



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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 4:58 AM   
91zulu



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ORIGINAL: SCALECRAFT

If arf prices get higher, will the US start manufacturing them in the states again??


At least keep the $$ at home.

Let's see.

Steve



Probably not. In this country especially, big profit drives the day. If there is no big profit to be made, no go. Now I know some will say there is no big profits in this hobby. What they mean is the profits are small comparing to the oil companies. Anything less than the oil companies profit is considered small. You know, just the same way some politicians like to sing about SMALL business when actually they mean a company with 5000 employes and corporate jets is considered small with profits in the 10s of millions a year. Guess they are small comparing to BP.
There are a lot of things that CAN be made in this country and should be. But EVERYONE LOOKS AT THE PROFIT possibility. Why isn`t an engine like the Moki made here ? Now those engines are not cheap and guys are lining up to buy them. Anything from Germany is not cheap and yet people still buy. So what is the problem producing some of those things here? I bet profit has something to do with it. Greed is going to be the demise of this country, yes it is.

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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 5:21 AM   
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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 5:37 AM   
kurt2022


 

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Status: offline 		With QE3 to infinity, a year from now $750 might be a steal! In the US, everything goes up in price but the private sector workers pay!

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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 7:40 AM   
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Status: offline 		in reference to the markup / profit .. don't forget how hobbico (the major parent to most all of the big brands) along with horizon corner the market and control so many areas from sales / stock / LHS dealer prices. Behind the 'curtain' there is about 3 players in this hobby (not including engine makers).
I had a long casual chat with a LHS owner and the rules and penalties governing the minimum pricing is unbelievable. The hobbico + companies make sure they get maximum profit with 200-300% markups on many items.

As for ARFs - china is the major builders and you know from buying it bulk - the cost is very low. Even high end companies like Aeroworks has their line built in china. I'd rather do it myself or disassemble a lot of it to check for quality and sturdy construction. Not slap and go.

Just a side note.

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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 12:58 PM   
GerKonig


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RotorWing Nut

in reference to the markup / profit .. don't forget how hobbico (the major parent to most all of the big brands) along with horizon corner the market and control so many areas from sales / stock / LHS dealer prices. Behind the 'curtain' there is about 3 players in this hobby (not including engine makers).
I had a long casual chat with a LHS owner and the rules and penalties governing the minimum pricing is unbelievable. The hobbico + companies make sure they get maximum profit with 200-300% markups on many items.

As for ARFs - china is the major builders and you know from buying it bulk - the cost is very low. Even high end companies like Aeroworks has their line built in china. I'd rather do it myself or disassemble a lot of it to check for quality and sturdy construction. Not slap and go.

Just a side note.



I agree. The price of balsa going up is a nonsense excuse. Mu favorite US manufacturer of kits uses a lot of balsa (BLASA USA, THE BEST) but their prices are stable. Market dictates the prices. Not long ago TopFilte came out with a smallish 60 size ARF Corsair about $50 less than the 1/5 P-521 ARF. Of course, they must have "corrected" the price of the P-51 (understand increased) since.

Cost is never the driver to set a price. The market's supply and demand sets the price. Cost is the excuse marketers use to "adjust" up the prices. If you do not believe this, well, you have God given right to be naive in this country... Sales are used to lower temporarily a price in order to dump merchandise or call the shopper's attention (like the P-40 1/5 scale ARF stunt weeks ago).

They are all in the same market. If GP can get away selling their Arf's at 499.00 it will. The moment they notice they will still sell at 599.00, they will increase the price, and blame the balsa tree worm for the increase in costs...

Look, Hobby-Lobby is advertisng the new and improved kits for their Telemaster, now manufactured in the US. We will see how that pans out. We also have a big wood kit manufacturer in Canada. The fact is that as long as stuff sells, prices will rise. Economy 101.

Gerry




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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 1:14 PM   
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Status: offline 		As a scratch builder i only wish i could build one of my planes for 650.00. but.... for me if it means not sending china anymore of my money for their cheap crap then i'm really happy for that .

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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 1:50 PM   
oneaew@msn.com


 

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Status: online 		I BUY MY PLANES AT THE RC SWAP MEETS>> GOT A DRAGON LADY 60 SIZE>> RECOVERED IT>>> PLANE WAS 10.00 COVERING 30.00 LOOKS LIKE NEW FLYS LIKE NEW MOST PEOPLE JUST WANT TO GET RID OF THERE PLANES ALSO BOUGHT 2 SPACE WALKERS FOR 15.00 EACH ALL IN GOOD SHAPE PLANES ARE OUT THERE I LIVE IN A MOBILE HOME NOT TO MUCH ROOM TO BUILD

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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 1:56 PM   
91zulu



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ORIGINAL: warbird_1

As a scratch builder i only wish i could build one of my planes for 650.00. but.... for me if it means not sending china anymore of my money for their cheap crap then i'm really happy for that .



What do you mean if you could build for $650 ? What planes are you scratch building that cost you more than 650. Are you talking from paper to the air or to the SAME POINT one would receive an ARF in the box. If it cost you more to the same point you would receive an ARF, you doing a hell of a lot wrong.

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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 2:31 PM   
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Status: offline 		i guess i'm doing something wrong or you cut corners. price out a ziroli spitfire with all the plastic and glass parts and gear. that alone is over a grand . that's not counting wood, glue, paint ,hardware,wheels,markings .. should i keep going? there's a difference between buying someone used stuff and building your own. i have build a lot of stuff. 2 ziroli p-40's and p-38 and a bunch of other stuff. you?

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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 2:35 PM   
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.


So the corsair for $750.00  your saying you cant build it for less? I'm not saying ready to fly, but the airframe to the same as the way the ARF comes when you open the box...


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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 2:38 PM   
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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 2:42 PM   
Mustangman40


 

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i guess i'm doing something wrong or you cut corners. price out a ziroli spitfire with all the plastic and glass parts and gear. that alone is over a grand . that's not counting wood, glue, paint ,hardware,wheels,markings .. should i keep going? there's a difference between buying someone used stuff and building your own. i have build a lot of stuff. 2 ziroli p-40's and p-38 and a bunch of other stuff. you?



Well being this is a thread about TF arf's and your the first person to bring Ziroli into the mix, your right in that respect..... 

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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 2:45 PM   
Mustangman40


 

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nope.



Care to tell us why???

Kit is $350.00

Arf is $750.00

So your saying monokote (5 rolls), glue and paint cost you more then $400.00....


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RE: Has TopFlite gone nuts with the price?? - 10/9/2012 2:50 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 91zulu


quote:

ORIGINAL: warbird_1

As a scratch builder i only wish i could build one of my planes for 650.00. but.... for me if it means not sending china anymore of my money for their cheap crap then i'm really happy for that .



What do you mean if you could build for $650 ? What planes are you scratch building that cost you more than 650. Are you talking from paper to the air or to the SAME POINT one would receive an ARF in the box. If it cost you more to the same point you would receive an ARF, you doing a hell of a lot wrong.



Really? Did you ever price a Ziroli Stuka? And that one does not have retracts! Get th plastic, fiberglass, struts, blueprints, get the wood cut (that needs cutting) get the rest of the wood, etc, and you are over that mark. Then start with the rest of the stuff... glues, fiberglass, resin, primer, paint, and all kind of supplies add another couple of hundereds (or covering). Cover a 1/3 scale Balsa Usa DR-1 (small for a 1/3 scale) and tell me the price of the covering. I doubt much you can do any Ziroli warbird less than well over a grand...

Just to re-do a 20 year old 1/3 scale Morane A-1 will cost well $300 in materials (no building involved, justr re-cover, improve, and update the model).

But, each of us has different interest, and like different models. I can see how a senior telemaster might be scratch built for about 1/2 the $650...

Gerry




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