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One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/8/2012 10:14 PM   
Philip Cooper



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From: HoddesdonHerts, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Yesterday while flying my Viperjet2m I lost it in cloud.

It was overcast and a mist was coming in however it seemed to me to be breaking. 

As I pulled up for a Derry turn, rolled inverted it just dissapeared completely within a second. Held the sticks, and it did not come back.

Time passed, and no sign of it.. more time passed and a bad feeling came over me. Asked other club mates if anyone could see it. no one could. I cut the throttle to idle, and sticks to neutral and applied enough up elevator so that I presumed it would hold its nose up.

We all waited, and waited, for me it seemed like forever... clubmates tell me it was maybe 30 seconds!. I was 100% sure it was lost, the engine noise had gone (after people tell me that cloud is good at blocking the sound)

Scanning the horizon anywhere expecting to see it nose in, it appeared inline with the strip, wings level from the left....... I think luck is a poorly and overused word... but that was something else. Landed all in one piece.

Anyway today it has me thinking.... if we have to have radio failsafe kill the engine with a loss of radio signal, should a loss of visual for say a certain period force an engine shut down too?

If this thing had been flying in any other direction it could have covered a lot of ground. Techincally should I have cut the engine?




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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/8/2012 10:24 PM   
-JC-



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Status: offline 		Phillip,

I have flown into clouds on occasion, just for fun. All you have to do is cut to idle and snap the plane. It will then spin into sight pretty much where it disappeared. Of course, if the clouds are at 200 feet, this may not be the best solution, but continuing on a straight and level flight path sounds like a bad idea. You want to get the plane under the clouds asap and when you know where it will reappear.

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/8/2012 10:27 PM   
SinCityJets


 

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Status: offline 		YES. In fact, BVM has a set of instuctions on their website for what you should do if you fly into a cloud.

Step 1. KILL ENGINE
Step 2. Basically, initiate a flat spin to bring the plane straight down
Step 3. Recover if you regain sight. cry if you don't.

Keeping the engine on could possible allow the plane to fly "away" and hurt/kill someone unsuspecting. Keeping the "recovery" sight at or close to the airfield is best case scenarion.

You were very blessed to get your plane back and no one hurt!

Chad

(it appears JC was typing a little faster )

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/8/2012 10:33 PM   
Erik R



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Status: offline 		Just wow! Have either of you ever considered that a full scale airplane could be flying in those clouds? You could easily kill possibly many people in that manner.To post in a public forum that you do that for fun is deplorable.That said,in an accidental cloud penetration,you should immediately kill the engine,and put the airplane in a snap/spin,and look for it to come out and deadstick it.The loss of your jet becomes secondary to the threat of innocent lives and property once you can't see it anymore.

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/8/2012 10:46 PM   
-JC-



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik R

Just wow! Have either of you ever considered that a full scale airplane could be flying in those clouds? You could easily kill possibly many people in that manner.To post in a public forum that you do that for fun is deplorable.That said,in an accidental cloud penetration,you should immediately kill the engine,and put the airplane in a snap/spin,and look for it to come out and deadstick it.The loss of your jet becomes secondary to the threat of innocent lives and property once you can't see it anymore.



Relax Eric...

I'm pretty sure a little puffy cloud does not contain a waiting aircraft... We are not talking full cloud cover here. Jeeezzzzz

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/8/2012 10:56 PM   
jetpilot



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Status: offline 		LOL!
too funny!!

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/8/2012 11:10 PM   
sailing1


 

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Arn't all pilots in the UK IFR rated?

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/8/2012 11:44 PM   
Erik R



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quote:

ORIGINAL: -JC-


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik R

Just wow! Have either of you ever considered that a full scale airplane could be flying in those clouds? You could easily kill possibly many people in that manner.To post in a public forum that you do that for fun is deplorable.That said,in an accidental cloud penetration,you should immediately kill the engine,and put the airplane in a snap/spin,and look for it to come out and deadstick it.The loss of your jet becomes secondary to the threat of innocent lives and property once you can't see it anymore.



Relax Eric...

I'm pretty sure a little puffy cloud does not contain a waiting aircraft... We are not talking full cloud cover here. Jeeezzzzz



John,

Respectfully,if his plane was out of sight for 30 seconds,it wasn't a "little puffy" cloud.You,and others here taking it lightly,and admitting you intentionally do it is the furthest thing from funny.Those that know me,know I don't need to lighten up.As a captain for a major airline,I can tell you that descending through a cloud,and getting a windshield full of rc jet would be a life threatening experience,and completely unsat.You are dead wrong,and it's not funny.

In light of the FAA NPRM regarding UAV's,and the serious potential threat to our segment of the hobby,you are doing all your fellow rc jet pilots a huge disservice.

Erik



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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/9/2012 12:03 AM   
-JC-



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From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Really...

You comment on a situation where you were not even there. I did not say anything about being lost for 30 seconds. Maybe if you had been at the field while we punched holes in a tiny cloud you'd lighten up. Not even an ultralight helicopter could have hidden in that cloud.

It's ok to be safety conscious, but coming here and callig an act you never saw "grossly irresponsible" is just dumb. Heck, you don't even know if it was done in this country, far away from the FAA. Some of us do have passports ya know :-)

So yes, asking you to relax is perfectly ok.

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/9/2012 12:22 AM   
jetpilot



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Status: offline 		The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/9/2012 12:41 AM   
bcovish



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Status: offline 		Settle down Scott, take your medicine and relax

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/9/2012 12:48 AM   
Erik R



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quote:

ORIGINAL: -JC-

Phillip,

I have flown into clouds on occasion, just for fun. All you have to do is cut to idle and snap the plane. It will then spin into sight pretty much where it disappeared. Of course, if the clouds are at 200 feet, this may not be the best solution, but continuing on a straight and level flight path sounds like a bad idea. You want to get the plane under the clouds asap and when you know where it will reappear.


John,

I've quoted your original post,so that it remains here,should you try to delete it.My only question to you would be,how do you think the FAA or AMA would feel about you occasionally flying your turbine jets in the clouds "for fun"? I think it's an incredibly stupid,irresponsible action,only trumped by the stupidity of posting it in a public forum.

Erik

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/9/2012 12:49 AM   
hooker53



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Status: offline 		I feel like it's going to be a looooooong winter!!!!!!! Ha. Ha.

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/9/2012 1:05 AM   
DrScoles



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Status: offline 		I think you should have triggered the self destruct mechanism....

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/9/2012 1:24 AM   
RickBoyer


 

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From: Fleetwood, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Once I rose above the noise and confusion
Just to get a glimpse beyond the illusion
I was soaring ever higher,
but I flew too high

Though my eyes could see I still was a blind man
Though my mind could think I still was a mad man
I hear the voices when I'm dreamin'
I can hear them say

Carry on, my wayward son
For there'll be peace when you are done
Lay your weary head to rest
Don't you cry no more

"Scanning the horizon anywhere expecting to see it nose in, it appeared inline with the strip, wings level from the left....... I think luck is a poorly and overused word... but that was something else. Landed all in one piece"

Pretty sure this is a ficticious post since it's way too hard to believe that the model (especially a jet) suddenly appeared after 30 seconds of lost visual sight, inline with the runway ready to land with its wings level from the left.... Or could it be that this lucky UK modeler had an elaborate on board GPS to guide him back?

30 Seconds, Really????

RB

Top Gun 2004-20012
Pitts Special S-1S (#1)
Ryan STA
Pitts Special S-1S (#2)

< Message edited by RickBoyer -- 10/9/2012 1:32 PM >

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/9/2012 1:35 AM   
racer8297


 

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Status: offline 		JC,
You admit on that you intentionally fly your jet out of sight. You must be crazy! With all the safety guidelines that we should abide by, and all the scrutiny that the hobby has been under, particularly our end of model aviation, your remarks show a complete lack of common sense. And to make matters worse, you insist on denigrating the people that are trying to do the right thing!

We are all trying to make sure that our hobby survives with all that is going on in the world. Then we get a guy flying with FPV through lower Manhattan, the guy trying to use RC airplanes to carry explosives, and now we got you saying that you fly your turbine jet in to the clouds and out of your sight. Incredible!

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/9/2012 1:46 AM   
Dustflyer



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Status: offline 		I need to stand up for Erik for two reasons. First off, the last thing the entire RC community needs is a collision with a full scale aircraft. Whether it's an unintentional cloud penetration or whether it's "just for fun," as stated in one of the posts, it represents lousy judgement either way. You should stay far enough away from the clouds that inadvertent penetration is unlikely. Our hobby would be in serious jeopardy if one of these collisions were to occur.

As an airline captain, I like my flying to be as boring as possible. Sucking an RC jet into a Pratt and Whitney 4000 is not my idea of a fun day. Assuming I get the jet back on the ground with the remaining blower, there's going to be a lot of questions and possibly the entire RC industry's butt is going to be in a world of hurt.

There are a lot of very sharp, very smart, and very responsible people in this hobby. There are also a few knuckleheads. To those I would say: think like an airline captain, "when in doubt, ask yourself how it will sound at the hearing."

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/9/2012 1:58 AM   
indubitably


 

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Status: offline 		Why not have the phone number of the closest Tower, so in the event of a lost aircraft, you could ask for a radar location, and direction back to the field. Im sure there is a technical term for such tax payer priviledges.
John

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/9/2012 3:08 AM   
jetpilot



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Status: offline 		Ok since we are all coming clean here, I have a confession. I chased a bird with my Quad Copter.
I know, I know! PETA probably combs these forums looking for guys like me to take down and take down hard!!
I realize I might have scared the crap out of that black bird and hes probably never going to be able to come near my car again and drop his bombs on it!!
There, its done!! I cant change the past! Ill stick to cutting grass and inhaling dragon flies!
Wait, one more confession, I also chase my dogs with it, but they like it!!
Scott

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/9/2012 3:10 AM   
ozief16


 

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Status: offline 		Scott,

Hysterical!

Everybody say: "Hi Scott"

V/R
Dave

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/9/2012 3:12 AM   
pbusa1400



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quote:

ORIGINAL: jetpilot

Ok since we are all coming clean here, I have a confession. I chased a bird with my Quad Copter.
I know, I know! PETA probably combs these forums looking for guys like me to take down and take down hard!!
I realize I might have scared the crap out of that black bird and hes probably never going to be able to come near my car again and drop his bombs on it!!
There, its done!! I cant change the past! Ill stick to cutting grass and inhaling dragon flies!
Wait, one more confession, I also chase my dogs with it, but they like it!!
Scott



Now that's Funny!!!!!!

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/9/2012 3:29 AM   
jetpilot



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik R


quote:

ORIGINAL: -JC-

Phillip,

I have flown into clouds on occasion, just for fun. All you have to do is cut to idle and snap the plane. It will then spin into sight pretty much where it disappeared. Of course, if the clouds are at 200 feet, this may not be the best solution, but continuing on a straight and level flight path sounds like a bad idea. You want to get the plane under the clouds asap and when you know where it will reappear.


John,

I've quoted your original post,so that it remains here,should you try to delete it.My only question to you would be,how do you think the FAA or AMA would feel about you occasionally flying your turbine jets in the clouds ''for fun''? I think it's an incredibly stupid,irresponsible action,only trumped by the stupidity of posting it in a public forum.

Erik



John, your a idiot for posting this, so dont try and erase it, cause I just quoted it, so everyone can see what an idiot you are for posting this, in a public forum, so if you did try and erase it, so nobody can see it, I still have it here quoted for everyone to see so they will know what an idiot you are for posting this, and know what you did, and how bad it is for you to do it, and then post it, then try and erase it, but then I quoted it, so its permanent!!



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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/9/2012 3:52 AM   
bcovish



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quote:

ORIGINAL: jetpilot

Ok since we are all coming clean here, I have a confession. I chased a bird with my Quad Copter.
I know, I know! PETA probably combs these forums looking for guys like me to take down and take down hard!!
I realize I might have scared the crap out of that black bird and hes probably never going to be able to come near my car again and drop his bombs on it!!
There, its done!! I cant change the past! Ill stick to cutting grass and inhaling dragon flies!
Wait, one more confession, I also chase my dogs with it, but they like it!!
Scott


I hope PETA doesn't come down on Vernon for taking out a buzzard with his Skymaster Hawk

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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/9/2012 3:56 AM   
hobby_man


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik R


quote:

ORIGINAL: -JC-

Phillip,

I have flown into clouds on occasion, just for fun. All you have to do is cut to idle and snap the plane. It will then spin into sight pretty much where it disappeared. Of course, if the clouds are at 200 feet, this may not be the best solution, but continuing on a straight and level flight path sounds like a bad idea. You want to get the plane under the clouds asap and when you know where it will reappear.


John,

I've quoted your original post,so that it remains here,should you try to delete it.My only question to you would be,how do you think the FAA or AMA would feel about you occasionally flying your turbine jets in the clouds ''for fun''? I think it's an incredibly stupid,irresponsible action,only trumped by the stupidity of posting it in a public forum.

Erik

AGREED, as I fly full scale as well!



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RE: One of the luckiest days of my life - 10/9/2012 4:08 AM   
invertmast


 

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An idiot and his money is soon parted


As i cant imagine anyone who values there possessions putting $5,000+ in a scenario that could potentially end disastrous. Flying in any clouds that could hamper visibility with the model is just irresponsible.

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