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How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass using a ... - 10/9/2012 5:21 AM   
tony calabrese


 

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Status: offline 		Hi all, just bought a Traxxas Rustler VXL with the Velineon 3500kV motor and ESC. What modifications do i have to do without breaking the bank or chaging the electronic gear provided with the Rustler to beat a HPI Vorza Flus on 22.2V 6S batteries on short grass.

Am wanting to get a lipo battery but have read that the amp rating on the lipo has to be greater or equal to the continuous Amp rating to the ESC and motor. In this case the Velineon has a continuous rating of 200Amps, ie as far as i understand the battery mAh rating eg 5000(mAh) with a 45C continuous equals to 225Amps. What is the reasoning for this? If you dont stress the battery beacuse of this, do you stress the ESC or Motor, something has got to give???




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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/9/2012 5:41 AM   
BKoz559



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Status: offline 		I can't guarantee that this will be faster than a Vorza but, if you want to go fast and nothing more then look into a 4000mah 50+C 3S LiPo.  The reason I suggest a lower mah rating is because the pack will be small and therefore lighter.  However, that also means you need to increase the C rating to makeup for lost amperage.  The VXL ESC is rating for 200amps but I doubt it pulls that much most of the time.

The other issue to contend with is the gear ratio.  If you haven't already, swap out the stock pinion to the larger pinion that should have been included with your truck.  All in all your Rustler will be fast.  I warn that with this setup and driving on grass your electronics will get hot quickly.  You may only get a couple of passes before the ESC shuts down or you risk damaging your equipment.

Lastly, the battery should be able to sustain the continuous rated current of the ESC or you will damage the battery.

Good luck!

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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/9/2012 5:58 AM   
tony calabrese


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks you your help.

Seems like i will be having some heat issues with the Motor and ESC, any suggestions to regulate this when running a 5000mAh 40C lipo other than the Velineon ESC fan that clips on top??


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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/9/2012 6:34 AM   
Haddi Taha



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Status: offline 		When you mean beat, do you mean top speed or track ability or something else?

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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/9/2012 7:16 AM   
yakfish



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Status: offline 		An 1/8 buggy will always out handle a 1/10 ST end of story ou can't change that. but in a straight line both can be made fast. It depends on what his batteries are and what his gearing is. the vorza is capable of 100+MPH with the right batteries and gearing and tires. So that what your up against. but he may only have it geared for 40-50 MPH in grass. I would think the Rustler is capable of that but I think you would be putting alot of stress on your stock electronics to push it that hard on grass.

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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/9/2012 7:18 AM   
yakfish



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quote:

ORIGINAL: tony calabrese
Am wanting to get a lipo battery but have read that the amp rating on the lipo has to be greater or equal to the continuous Amp rating to the ESC and motor. In this case the Velineon has a continuous rating of 200Amps, ie as far as i understand the battery mAh rating eg 5000(mAh) with a 45C continuous equals to 225Amps. What is the reasoning for this? If you dont stress the battery beacuse of this, do you stress the ESC or Motor, something has got to give???



The way I understand this is: The ESC/Motor are pulling power from the battery, if the battery isn't capable of supplying what the ESC/Motor want then the battery will over heat, which will shorten battery life. As long as your battery has the ablility to supply the amount of power needed by the ESC/motor everything will run smooth. This is where the difference between voltage and amperage comes into play. Too many volts on the battery and you will burn up your electronics. But the more amps the better!

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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/9/2012 10:19 AM   
tony calabrese


 

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Status: offline 		Ok Thanks Guys,

In response to Haddi, generally will be racing on a large undulating open grassed field,





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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/9/2012 1:04 PM   
phmaximus



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Status: offline 		I dont see a Velineon 3500kV limited to 3s keeping up with that vorza on 6s, the only way u will beat him is if his gearing is low, but he could easly gear up...

what ESC and motorKV is he running?

Sounds like u need a more powerfull system, there was a guy in the rustler thread that had a ezrun 150a ESC in his rustler, one hell of a setup but it had problems with reliability in the drivetrain

check these out for setups
, the first video is that guys one





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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/9/2012 4:06 PM   
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Status: offline 		Before you waste a lot of money, just wanted to say that the 1/8th buggy will fly through the grass always compared to the rustler. I own the Vorza and plenty of 1/10 rwd cars to compare and there is no way I can make any of them keep up with the power of the Vorza (or any of my 8th scales).

You will be spending a lot of money and in the end you could have bought an 8th scale, 1/10ths will always struggle on grass

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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/9/2012 4:15 PM   
cumminspower5.9



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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Hedgehog

Before you waste a lot of money, just wanted to say that the 1/8th buggy will fly through the grass always compared to the rustler. I own the Vorza and plenty of 1/10 rwd cars to compare and there is no way I can make any of them keep up with the power of the Vorza (or any of my 8th scales).

You will be spending a lot of money and in the end you could have bought an 8th scale, 1/10ths will always struggle on grass


Whoah my XS rips across grass on 3s


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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/9/2012 5:18 PM   
Foxy



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Status: online 		There is nothing you can do to a rustler to make it beat a 6S 1/8th buggy on grass. Period.

Sorry, but there's no point giving you false hope. Even if you DID break the bank, you'd never even get close.

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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/9/2012 6:57 PM   
SyCo_VeNoM



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Status: online 		would be cheaper to just buy a cheap toyota throw the rustler in the trunk, and run the buggy over....
Only way you can beat it

even then the buggy might give the toyota a run for its money

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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/9/2012 7:19 PM   
john01374


 

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Status: offline 		In a straight line on concrete it can be done pretty easily. Off road it's going to be almost impossible.

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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/9/2012 9:12 PM   
The Hedgehog



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quote:

ORIGINAL: cumminspower5.9


quote:

ORIGINAL: The Hedgehog

Before you waste a lot of money, just wanted to say that the 1/8th buggy will fly through the grass always compared to the rustler. I own the Vorza and plenty of 1/10 rwd cars to compare and there is no way I can make any of them keep up with the power of the Vorza (or any of my 8th scales).

You will be spending a lot of money and in the end you could have bought an 8th scale, 1/10ths will always struggle on grass


Whoah my XS rips across grass on 3s


Nothing like a proper 1/8th would.

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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/9/2012 10:56 PM   
tony calabrese


 

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Status: offline 		Ha ha very good guys, i guess just need to find a nice stretch of road and try to convince him to have a bash and speed runs on there. Cheers for the help...Great forum!


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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/9/2012 11:59 PM   
nitrosportsandrunner



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Status: offline 		you will have to make the race on pavement.

NO way a rustler will take the vorza on grass.

I have had a beafed up rustler vxl on 3s lipo. And the speed on grass is always slower than on pavement. Basically, due to the 2wd and light front end you will have a hard time using all the power availible.


The vorza will smoke the rustler off the line...whether on pavement or grass. But even at speed the vorza will have much better traction on grass than the rustler.

You will want to use anaconda or simillar tires. You dont want tires that can ballon alot...as that makes the handling poor.

Next, you install the highest gearing traxxas suggests and use a good 3s 5000mah 30-50c battery.

If you buddy has his vorza at stock gearing....and your "track" is long enough then the rustler should overtake the vorza at the end due to a higher top speed.

A wheely bar that will keep the front tires right on the ground is a big help as well.

and you will want to add a fan to the ESC at least. There are heat sinks made to fit the rustler (for the motor) and those dont hurt either.

Honestly, its a uphill battle a rustler vxl on 3s with max gearing is good for 75mph.

Even if you were to install a 1/8 scale brushless system and run 4s (or even 6s) you still have to battle the poor handling of the rustler (especially off the line) 4wd models just put the power to the ground better.

So, to have any chance.....Max gearing, wheely bar, good 3s lipo, long pavement track, good tires, lower supsension.


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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/10/2012 12:10 AM   
tony calabrese


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks nitrosportsandrunner, will order the fan on esc today, what do you suggest as the heatsink for the 3500kV Velineon Motor??


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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/10/2012 12:22 AM   
nitrosportsandrunner



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quote:

ORIGINAL: tony calabrese

Thanks nitrosportsandrunner, will order the fan on esc today, what do you suggest as the heatsink for the 3500kV Velineon Motor??


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Integy-T8074B-Motor-Heatsink-w-Cooling-Fan-Blue-Slash-Stampede-Rustler-Bandit-/300791865997?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item460897a28d

those will work OK for speed runs.
the motor on the rusty doesnt stick out much, so there is no way to get a good heat sink on that would be suitible for bashing. But for running on pavement that one will stay on and should help alittle with temps.

Even with fan and heat sink...if you run max gearing on a 3s lipo you will want to limit yourself to a few runs. Or take breaks in between runs. If you own a temp gun, keep it on you. dont let the motor go over 180 (my opinion here...it can go a bit higher before damage is done) or the esc get over 160. But it should take several runs before that will happen.

I just got done running a vxl system on a 3s 5000mah 30c pack in my redcat tornado epx pro. its a 4wd 1/10 buggy. temps were OK, but higher than I expected given the current gearing (around 55mph)

If you get the top gearing for the rustler, and a good 2s lipo and a wheely bar set right plus lower the suspension hight......then practice running it. Its a skilll to roll onto the throttle to get the most speed without the front coming off of the ground or getting one of the tires to break loose and ballon (which will cause the truck to swerve)

If you practice that...and your buddy has stock gearing on his vorza....then you "should" be able to pass him after a long enough straight. This will be due only to the top speed being higher on the rustler.

But as mentioned, if he gears his up for street running then he will still beat you no matter what you do.

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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/10/2012 12:33 AM   
tony calabrese


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Nitro, great advice from experience!


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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/10/2012 12:55 AM   
nitrosportsandrunner



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ORIGINAL: tony calabrese

Thanks Nitro, great advice from experience!


yeh, I think i have owned 4 or 5 rustler vxl's. some I sold, others i traded. My 1st brushless model was a rustler vxl. bought it used with a 3s lipo....changed my rc habbits. I had started the hobby with a nitro model. loved the speed, not the time needed to keep it running. Then I went the brushed electrics. Kept trying to make them as fast as the nitro had been. Burnt up more than a few motors and ESC's. Then I got the rustler and had it all, easy to run, insane speeds, low down time. Been mostly running brushless models since then.

Its a good "overall" truck. It doesnt do any one thing that well, but it can do many different things.
can be setup for sand, street, or general bashing. Holds up pretty well, especially with rpm upgrades.

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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/10/2012 8:06 AM   
phmaximus



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There is nothing you can do to a rustler to make it beat a 6S 1/8th buggy on grass. Period.

Sorry, but there's no point giving you false hope. Even if you DID break the bank, you'd never even get close.


I totally agree... even on road I dont see it keeping up, well not with his current ESC and motor...





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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/12/2012 5:21 PM   
ElectricGuy007



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

There is nothing you can do to a rustler to make it beat a 6S 1/8th buggy on grass. Period.

Sorry, but there's no point giving you false hope. Even if you DID break the bank, you'd never even get close.



I tend to agree. If you guys only knew how powerful a 6s powered 8th scale is.
It's like putting a BIG BLOCK MONSTER TRUCK ENGINE in a Ford Pinto. The car wouldnt survive 1 crash....

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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/12/2012 5:40 PM   
SyCo_VeNoM



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElectricGuy007

quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

There is nothing you can do to a rustler to make it beat a 6S 1/8th buggy on grass. Period.

Sorry, but there's no point giving you false hope. Even if you DID break the bank, you'd never even get close.



I tend to agree. If you guys only knew how powerful a 6s powered 8th scale is.
It's like putting a BIG BLOCK MONSTER TRUCK ENGINE in a Ford Pinto. The car wouldnt survive 1 crash....

pretty much
I can't even imagine something like my truggy on 6S seeing on 4S pushes my ability to control it

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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/13/2012 11:31 AM   
tony calabrese


 

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Status: offline 		Electric Guy, what wrong with that how hard can we push these lil buggers!!!




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RE: How to beat a HPI Vorza Flux on 22.2V on grass usin... - 10/16/2012 1:59 AM   
badaml


 

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Status: offline 		I have owned both of these, as well as a few others. As others have said, it may be an uphill battle. If you are a much better driver though, you may be able to do it! Post some vids!!!

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