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Diesel suggestions - 10/9/2012 12:56 PM   
controlliner



Posts: 1021
Joined: 3/2/2009
Last Login: 5/18/2013
From: Kingston, NS, CANADA
Status: offline 		I am looking at three diesel engines right now and am looking for input as to quality , performance etc. They are MK-17, MARZ (MAP3) (black cooling jacket) and the JinShi or I think AKA Yin Yan.
Anyone have any user info?

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"Keep it clean and not too lean" Duke Fox

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RE: Diesel suggestions - 10/9/2012 3:09 PM   
raglafart


 

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Joined: 4/3/2002
Last Login: 5/17/2013
From: Lane Cove N.S.W. , AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		The MK 17 is a lovely handling engine, just make sure to use the smaller of the two venturi supplied.
The Marz can also be a nice handling and quite powerful 2.5 cc diesel, though the shaft are known to be their weak point. Depends on how much you pay for one. Anything over $50 is getting too much in my opinion.
The Silver Swallows, unless from the first batch from the 60's are highly variable in fits and also deck heights. I have 5 or 6 of them I'm trying to sort out for a friend. The transfer ports haven't been machined deep enough to act as transfer ports and they simply won't run. The fits are not the best either. They also are known to be shaft breakers.
I'd stay well clear of the Silver Swallows, though to be sure, some will say they are fine and I wouldn't argue that there are indeed some that run well. Just depends on how many you want to buy before you find a good one though!
I don't think you'd go far wrong with either the MK 17 or the Marz.
The only decision is whether you want an 09 or a 15.
And to a certain extent what type of model you want to fly is going to have a bearing on the best choice.
If you are a beginner and or a junior, the MK 17 will probably last you for a number of years.
Best I can come up with for you and yes I own all 3 of the engines you've mentioned.

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RE: Diesel suggestions - 10/9/2012 5:30 PM   
paw080


 

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Joined: 1/22/2008
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From: Corona, CA, USA
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Hi controline guy, I pretty much agree with everything Raglafart has said. I own multiples of the

same engines(7 Yin Yangs, 3 Jin Shis, 4 Marz-3s and 2 Mk-17s) The Marz engines tend to shell

themselves out after 45min-1 1/2 hours running. The quality of the Mk-17 is really not that great,

I have many other diesel .09s that seriously out perform it. The early 1960's Yin Yangs are very

well made for a simple sport engine. while The CS renditions are plagued horribly with quality issues.

My one good Marz is powering a CLC Super Clown and I have several Yin Yang .15s in Veco Tomahawks.

My advice is to forgo these 3 engine choices and buy a PAW .15BB or PAW .19BB instead.

Tony

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RE: Diesel suggestions - 10/9/2012 6:30 PM   
AMB


 

Posts: 6495
Joined: 6/10/2003
Last Login: 5/18/2013
From: winter park, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I agree with PAW080 I cannot personally knock any of the 3 mentioned engines since I do not have any , but the history of them on the site is not good
the PAWs are factory run, Eric Clutton in the USA sells them, runs and sets compression and needle again before sending out ( even notes on the box)
In the newer designs Fox, OS, the Davis diesel conversions excellent
If an issue does develop both these gentleman can most likely resolve with a email or phone call and all right here in the USA
I do have the Classic design PAWs and quite a few Davis conversions
forgot did have one CS 061D a piece of junk never ran, I did salvage the Carb and put it one a Cox 049 easy start best regards martin

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RE: Diesel suggestions - 10/9/2012 7:03 PM   
trfourtune44


 

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From: port coquitlam, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		http://modelenginenews.org/cardfile/mk17.html
http://modelenginenews.org/  search for engine reviews and you can find the MARZ 2.5
see the reviews by Adrian Duncan on the 2 russian engines. your choise of airplane models is a little limited with the smaller engines but that may not matter to you.
 A PAW 19TBR can handle a flite streak, a ringmaster, peacemaker (faster-smaller wing) and a host of other "smaller" designs made for the FOX 35 stunt, but is does cost more than double what a MK17 or Marz does. Area 300-450 sq in. planes
A MK17 works on an Akromaster or possibly a JR ringmaster. More like 250-300 sq. in. planes.
The PAW 15 BR or TBR are great as well. The BR is used for vintage diesel combat almost exclusively with good reason.
Just my opinion.
Rob


< Message edited by trfourtune44 -- 10/12/2012 10:28 PM >

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RE: Diesel suggestions - 10/12/2012 10:27 PM   
trfourtune44


 

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Joined: 9/20/2012
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From: port coquitlam, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		If I was to make your choise, I would decide which airplane I was going to build first, then choose one of the russian engines.
 HOWEVER, I would strip the engine down and clean it with ultrasonics (if possible). I would lean towards the MARZ (because it is a 2.5cc, .15  allowing bigger aiplanes) and follow the instructions form Adrian Duncan on prep.
 Do not run these engines before cleaning them first. It is very important to break the engine in carefully and DO NOT dismantle after break in. When steel/iron diesel engines break in, they custom lap the cylinder to piston fit. If you take it apart after, you can never get the cylinder exactly in the same spot on re-assembly. We are talking about millionths of an inch exact. You want to preserve that fit as much as possible. Obviously if you eat dirt and you have no other choice, then so be it. Luckily, the rear intake engines are a little less prone to this. I believe in intake filters.
imho.
Rob


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RE: Diesel suggestions - 10/13/2012 12:40 AM   
paw080


 

Posts: 134
Joined: 1/22/2008
Last Login: 5/17/2013
From: Corona, CA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: controlliner

I am looking at three diesel engines right now and am looking for input as to quality , performance etc. They are MK-17, MARZ (MAP3) (black cooling jacket) and the JinShi or I think AKA Yin Yan.
Anyone have any user info?



Hi Controliner, I forgot to comment on the Jin Shi. Ed Carlson used to sell them for $20.

He provided a modification worksheet; the first mod was to carefully grind a measured

segment of the Crankweb to aid in dynamic balance of the running engine. It worked

quite well to smooth out the vibes. The second modification was to add spacers behind the thrust

plate so that the crank pin would not gouge the backplate.

You ended up with an engine that would outurn and out pull the stock Yin Yan by about 1,000 rpms

My stock Yin Yans turned my 8 X 4 test prop at 13,500 rpm . The Jin Shis turned that same prop and

same fuel, 14,300 -14,500 rpm.

As an aside, James Szhou(prior CS rep.) flew his first control line flight with my Dumas Tomahawk, powered

by one of my Jin Shi .15 diesel engines. He had flow my stunt kite trainer for several hours prior to the

first control line attempt. During his first flight, he did some inside and outside loops and a few lazy eights

without crashing; thanks to the prior kite training.

Tony

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RE: Diesel suggestions - 10/14/2012 1:00 AM   
trfourtune44


 

Posts: 17
Joined: 9/20/2012
Last Login: 2/14/2013
From: port coquitlam, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		mk 17:
 .14 hp
130 grams
$50 from Carlson

MARZ / MAP3:
.34 hp
162 grams
$50 from Carlson

the plain bearing PAW 15 is quoted as :
.33 hp
170 grams
$85

the Single bearing PAW 15:
.38 hp
170 grams
$99

the TBR paw 15:
.40 hp
170 grams
$119

The Marz has a better power to weight ratio than the MK 17. I would look at a JR flight streak, Jr Lightning Streak, Peacemaker, flying clown maybe even a super clown( at 355 in. it will be slower) with a .15 engine. Ther are many classic combat planes for 15's.


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RE: Diesel suggestions - 10/14/2012 1:11 AM   
AMB


 

Posts: 6495
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From: winter park, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I would go with PAWs yes, twice the price, but will last for years and price forgotten martin

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RE: Diesel suggestions - 10/14/2012 9:43 PM   
trfourtune44


 

Posts: 17
Joined: 9/20/2012
Last Login: 2/14/2013
From: port coquitlam, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		sorry all.
I think I gave some bad advise on the aiplanes. So, i would look at the "JR" planes for the .09 in. (1.5cc) engine and the others for the .15 in. (2.5cc). I would say 300-350 square inch plane for the .15.  For comparison, diesel vintage combat uses a "hot" (combat tuned) PAW 15 BR  with a Warlord (example)- 280 square inch plane traveling 64 mph with a streamer on 52 foot lines.
See the attached for free plans of miscellaneous planes:
http://www.outerzone.co.uk/index.asp

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RE: Diesel suggestions - 10/17/2012 4:15 PM   
trfourtune44


 

Posts: 17
Joined: 9/20/2012
Last Login: 2/14/2013
From: port coquitlam, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		quote frome the stuka stunt forum:

"Can't go very wrong with any size P.A.W.
2.5cc on a Jr Flite Streak (8/6 prop & 52' lines) is enuf fun to be classed as sinful."

So looks like 230 sqare inches is enough wing for a 2.5 according to this person.

Rob



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