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Cool - 9/10/2003 8:20:01 PM   
mgreb


 

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Joined: 8/19/2003
From: Sulphur Springs, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Rc Universe has been one of my favorite sites for all the racing and engine forums, now they have a discussion fourum for my favorite type of model plane !
       Post #: 1

RE: Cool - 9/10/2003 9:11:44 PM  1 votes
Nathan



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Joined: 12/2/2001
From: Holland, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Welcome to the Control Line forum and enjoy!

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       Post #: 2

RE: Cool - 9/10/2003 11:42:56 PM   
Bud Morrison


 

Posts: 185
Joined: 9/10/2003
From: Columbia, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Cool they named a forum after me
Think Ill have to make me up an animated control line plane for my avatar though.

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       Post #: 3

RE: Cool - 9/11/2003 5:45:53 AM   
downunder



Posts: 3147
Joined: 10/10/2002
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		All I can say is YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY...finally...a forum for the kind of flying I enjoy most of all

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       Post #: 4

RE: Cool - 9/11/2003 7:16:21 AM   
William Robison



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Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		DU:

quote:

All I can say is YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY...finally...a forum for the kind of flying I enjoy most of all

Should I point out that the part you like best is never having to walk more that 60 or 70 feet to pick up the wreckage?

Haw.

Bill.

< Message edited by William Robison -- 9/11/2003 1:17:01 AM >

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RE: Cool - 9/11/2003 9:55:59 PM   
gcb



Posts: 2367
Joined: 10/24/2002
From: Port Ewen, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Real Airplanes have Two Engines...and Two Wires

George

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       Post #: 6

RE: Cool - 9/11/2003 10:14:08 PM   
William Robison



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Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		George:

Good one. Almost.

Don't forget Victor Stanzel's fantastic invention for we who flew c/l speed - Monoline controllers.

And while I still have a bunch of two-line stuff, my Monoline equipment is all gone.

Bill.

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       Post #: 7

RE: Cool - 9/12/2003 1:32:22 AM   
Bud Morrison


 

Posts: 185
Joined: 9/10/2003
From: Columbia, PA, USA
Status: offline 		I heard rumor they were going to ban monoline in speed competition.
Any truth to that?

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       Post #: 8

RE: Cool - 9/12/2003 2:35:15 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		It seems to me that I saw something about banning Monoline in Model Aviation, but I don't think it will happen.

The use of Monoline is firmly entrenched, and there's nothing inherently dangerous in it.

Some things, like the tetra fuel additive we were using in 1960 and 1961 are extremely dangerous, not only from being explosive but highly poisonous. Banning tetra and other corrosive fuels was a good thing.

In my opinion, and the opinion of everybody using it, banning Monoline would be a bad thing, and just plain senseless.

Since that one note several months ago I've heard nothing more.

Bill.

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AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

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       Post #: 9

RE: Cool - 9/12/2003 12:59:28 PM   
gcb



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Joined: 10/24/2002
From: Port Ewen, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Monoline is not only for Speed. A few years ago at the Vintage Stunt Championships Dale Kirn showed how to use Monoline in a stunt plane. Then his son flew a stunt plane using Monoline. One of the interesting points (to me) was how the wires would retain some twist to the point that he would have to spin the knob to reestablish neutral while the plane was in level flight.
I have an old Stanzel class A unit and a class "A" size Kansas Twister. That said, I have never flown speed and never used a Monoline unit.

George

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       Post #: 10

RE: Cool - 9/12/2003 2:00:43 PM   
blue62



Posts: 316
Joined: 7/3/2003
From: Rogers , TX,
Status: offline 		ok guys i am an ooollllldddddd 2 liner. could somebody give me a short class in "monoline"??? how the heck.....does that work......... i can't seem to get my tiny brain around it. of course i have never seen it either!



john

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RE: Cool - 9/12/2003 3:21:21 PM   
w8ye



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Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Taylortown, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Mono Line was around in the 50's and eversince I guess. It was made by Victor Stanzel if I remember correctly. The only places I saw it used was in the speed classes.

The handle was made like a Yankee screw driver and there were two handle parts. A fixed one at the rear and one that slide back and forth. To slide the one back and forth caused the line to twist. There was a mechanism in the plane to convert this twisting motion into uup and down on the elevator.

The line was two or three times thicker than one of the two line types.

It didn't work so well for stunt.

Jim

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RE: Cool - 9/12/2003 8:06:57 PM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Flying Monoline gave you about as much control feel as using the Aramid lines for a two-line system, or flying yur 1/2A Cox RTF with the supplied thread lines.

Very mushy.

Dale Kirn was one of the few who could make Monoline look good on a stunt plane,

One of Stanzel's seling points was retaining control when the plane came in on the lines. My opinion? If you lose tension on the lines you have other things to worry about.

There were some real advantages, for example if the plane pitched up the line would be twisted into some "Down" elevator input, so long as you held the slider in the same position. This is also why you see the pilot hitting the slider with the palm of his hand now and then - when you do an inside loop, for example, the line has to take that same full turn to stay in the control center position. And you have moved the neutral position of the slider about three inches closer to the handle, so you have to twist it back to the center of the spiral.

Unlike a two-line system where you just swing yur handle and keep the same control setting throught the maneuver, with the Monoline you have to keep moving the slider as the airplane goes through its maneuver, or the control goes back to neutral as the plane turns.

All this makes Monoline ideal for c/l speed. You don't want any pitch instability, Monoline adds a bit of stability all by itself. With two lines on a speed job any twitch of your hand will deflect the elevator increasing air drag, and lowering your speed. Doesn't even have to be enough to see, it's there.

A properly trimmed speed plane will "Groove," and maintain its five to eight foot altitude with no control input. Once you are "Grooving" you can take your hand off the slider and make no more control inputs all the way to the airplane landing.

But sport and stunt? No Monoline for me, thanks anyway.

Bill.

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RE: Cool - 9/13/2003 9:10:11 AM   
downunder



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Joined: 10/10/2002
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Monoline was introduced for speed (where the rules didn't specify 2 lines) because the drag from the single line was much less than for two (thinner) lines one behind the other.

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       Post #: 14

RE: Cool - 9/13/2003 12:45:37 PM   
blue62



Posts: 316
Joined: 7/3/2003
From: Rogers , TX,
Status: offline 		well guys that is about a concise report if i ever saw one! thanx i can now visualize how this system works. all this time i was playin around with 2 lines tryin to go fast when i coulda been goin really fast!!!


thanx again

john

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I don't have it, do you have it? crash! nope musta been shot down!

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RE: Cool - 9/13/2003 5:43:56 PM   
William Robison



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Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		DU:

Disagree, sir.

Jim Walker had patented the two-line system, all the manufacturers of kits or c/l parts, the bellcrank, control horns, etc, had to pay a royalty to Walker for every thing they made and sold. Monoline was an alternate system, and no royalty to Walker was required.

When Stanzel put Monoline on the market, in the mid 50s, he pushed its use as a sport system. He even hired Dale Kirn to go on a "Road show" to demonstrate it as a system for stunt planes. He was able to use line lengths that would not have been operable with a two line system,

One of the things he touted was just that, the longer lines. By using them, one of the "Newbie" objections was countered - the pilot spinning around. "I'll get dizzy!" was a common objection, the longer lines meant he didn't have to spin as fast.

And then the speed boys found that one 0.018" line was less air drag than two 0.012" lines.

So the Monoline system, intended to displace Jim Walker's "U-Control" never caught on, except for U/C speed,where it became dominant.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.