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what is it? - 10/17/2012 6:32 AM   
sparky4lawndart



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From: Ladera Ranch, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Gents (and possibly, Ladies), I bought a Hangar 9 P51D Blue Nose from a nearby hobby store.. I was very excited but being overzealous failed to realize that that bird was going to get expensive.... When I totaled up all the components I was going to need... new receiver ($149), servos (6 X $50ish), retract servos ($70), motor (osGT22 $$$ or DLE20 $250)...put me over $1000 in a blink...

When talking to the boss/wife I was guilted (or realized, depending if you ask my wife) into returning the new kit... I did.. the guy at the hobby store was very cool about it since i didn't take anything our of the box yet. Sitting in my man cave I realized after drooling over models in the RCU Exchange that I should look at Craigs List.. Never have before, mind you.

2 minutes later I was driving 35 miles to a guy who had a little sport plane ready to go for $75... so I had the $325 I got back for the Hangar 9 model and while driving there I was thinking of buying new nitro (maybe 2 gallons), etc...

I get there and the guy has a garage full of planes.. "I don't fly anymore" he explains, "so have your pick"...

what the hell are these planes I just bought???





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RE: what is it? - 10/17/2012 11:40 AM   
Mr67Stang



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Status: offline 		It looks like you have a World Models Zen 50 or 90 (the patern aircraft) and an unknown Sukhoi S-31. If you add wingspans to your discriptions it would be easier to pin down a model.

The Zen 50 can be seen here: http://www.airborne-models.com/html/productdetails.asp?ProductID=53
and the Zen 90 here: http://www.airborne-models.com/html/productdetails.asp?ProductID=52


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RE: what is it? - 10/17/2012 1:15 PM   
bikerbc


 

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Status: offline 		You can often purchace used planes from guys that want to upgrade or are quiting or whatever...However it sounds like you have little experience flying at this point and that being the case you need a trainer style plane. What you have there so far is not really well suited to a beginer...They will do you well for second or third planes but you might be wize to see if you can find a trainer and a instructer to help you for the first little while...If you have experience I apoligize for assuming that you did not...There one plane in the background that looks like it might be suitable....Is that one yours too?

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RE: what is it? - 10/17/2012 1:23 PM   
bikerbc


 

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Status: offline 		A good trainer usually has a high wing with a flat bottom ... often held on with elastic bands but not always .

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RE: what is it? - 10/17/2012 5:17 PM   
sparky4lawndart



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Status: offline 		helloooo... second attempt at this reply.. sorry... took too long the first time...

Mr67Stang. you're right.. it is a Sig 90 with a YS 120 and a tuned pipe up front. thanks for the link.. parts, parts, parts...

The Sukhoi has a wingspan of almost 73 inches... It has a Saito 180 up front...

thanks everyone... It'll be great to get back into balsa.. foamy electrics didn't have the same thrill I remember from glow...



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RE: what is it? - 10/17/2012 5:57 PM   
bikerbc


 

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Status: offline 		Oh boy that 1.80 Saito will sure haul that Sukhoi around the sky . I have a saito 1.80 and they are powerfull motors...Thirsty but powerfull... I agree the foamy electric jobs dont measure up to the glow planes but they do have their place...I finally broke down and bought one , then I won another so now I have two....They are quiet...I have the I Con and you can take it down to the pond in the early morn when it is calm and quiet and play with it and not disturb anyone...I still like my glow planes better though...

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RE: what is it? - 10/17/2012 7:05 PM   
stevenmax50


 

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Status: offline 		Looks to me like what you have ae to potential holes in the ground.  Sorry dude.  Not trying to sound like a butthead even though I know its coming out that way.  Its just that those are too much plane for a beginner.  Keep them for later after you have flown a trainer for a few months.  Get something with a flat bottom wing.  Slow and easy is what you want. 

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RE: what is it? - 10/17/2012 7:28 PM   
Mr67Stang



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Status: offline 		Please go back and read the OP's two posts and you will se he is not a "beginner" he is just getting back into glow.

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RE: what is it? - 10/17/2012 7:41 PM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		You say you got those for $75.00 a piece?? And I thought I was a dealer!! The YS 120s haven't been made in a lot of years, the 1.10 replaced them and now they have a 1.15 too. I fly with YS and have several of the 1.20s on hand. The engine will require a new diaphragm so I would just call Central Hobbies and buy a couple diaphragms and gaskets. That's about all you need to keep a YS running well. I replace them every year or two. They don't like to sit around without use. The Saito is another big score. You did good!!! Understatement.
Like everyone else that will reply, these are both high performance planes and someone that has only flown the small foamies will tend to plant them both on the first flight. Not always but usually. If you can, ask someone to set them up on a buddy box and work with you a little. Be a shame to stuff them right away. Plus your going to need a bit of help with the engines. The YS FZ does have a low end needle but it works backward compared to the Saito and the other 1.20s use the regulator screw to adjust the low end. It's a balancing act with the high and low to get it right. Not everyone can do it, that's how I have gotten my 1.20s, people get upset trying to balance the carb and figure the engine is junk.
You scored good!!!

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RE: what is it? - 10/19/2012 5:21 AM   
sparky4lawndart



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Status: offline 		UPDATE>>>

It's been two days.. I took the Saito 180 apart and cleaned it up... I found that the lifters were jammed up into the rockers... I found the carb locked up... soaked them overnight and today I put the carb under the heat gun for a couple minutes... it finally loosened up where I could submerge it and run the throttle about a 100 times (really). very clean action now... I've got to go buy a new fuel tank... the 16oz in there was full of vinegar and gunk... don't want to chance it...

Bikerbc... what size tank can i get away with... If the 180 is really hungry should I goto a bigger tank? stick with 16oz? I'd like to run rich for a bit (at least 2 gallons of fuel) before leanning it out... BTW.. if you bottom out the needle and back it off 3 1/2 times.. does that sound like a good place to start? If i can't that motor up easily I may opt for a new DLE 20... don't know until I get the Saito fired up...

The servos are a mixed bag... I've never heard of Dymond 7500... anyone here trust those? I may go and spend $150 on new servos if anyone has something sour to say about the Dymonds.


I bought an Airtronics RDS8000 ($150 new w/ a receiver). I have a 1100MAH 4.8 pack.. will that be enough?

More to follow... as i make progress

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RE: what is it? - 10/19/2012 6:37 AM   
Mr67Stang



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Status: offline 		I wish you lived closer. I would double your money on than Zen 90

The Saito 180 is closer to 30cc - 35cc DLE performance.

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RE: what is it? - 10/19/2012 3:39 PM   
carrellh



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Status: offline 		Link to the servo.
http://www.rc-dymond.com/index3.php?productID=2027
Some specs
http://www.servodatabase.com/servos/dymond
I have no experience with them.

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RE: what is it? - 10/19/2012 5:10 PM   
carrellh



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Status: offline 		Saito 180 manual http://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/Large_Single_Cylinder_Manual.pdf

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RE: what is it? - 10/19/2012 9:05 PM   
sparky4lawndart



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Status: offline 		thanks for the links, fellas... I really appreciate it... I'm charging up the TX and RX batteries now and I just bought a new Sullizan 16oz slant tank from Hobby People nearby.

I'll try those servos out for a bit... I have kids so I'll have them beat up the sticks and keep an eye out for a failed control surface.

I'm mostly worried about the Saito 180... reading through the manual has me worried about fuel settings... we'll see. More to follow after tonights test start attempt...

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RE: what is it? - 10/20/2012 12:14 AM   
bikerbc


 

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Status: offline 		I had a Saito 1.80 in a seagull spacewalker and I found it was too much motor so I took it out and replaced it with a DLE 20...Boy what a great little motor they are..lots of power for the walker...The 1.80 would use more than an oz a min depending on how you run it of course..Full throttle I would guess maby 2 oz per min....They really suck it back...My DLE on the other hand is very easy on gas....I have a 16 oz tank and I can get 1/2 hr flights if I want...I find that is a bit too long for me though...15 too 20 is plenty...The 1.80 is a beautifull motor..They have lots of power and run great..They viberate quite a bit and as i said use lots of juice...I dont think I will ever use mine again...I will use the DLE 20 instead or if more power is required the DLE 30...The 30 is a real power house....A friend of mine put one in his 1/4 Cub and he tore the fire wall out on the third flight...He could get that 16 lb Cub air bourne in about 10 ft and climb out at about a 45 ....




Edited by Moderator to remove excessive blank space.

< Message edited by CGRetired -- 10/23/2012 12:14 PM >

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RE: what is it? - 10/21/2012 7:17 AM   
sparky4lawndart



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Status: offline 		Well... the Saito tried to kill me tonight. Couldn't get it to fire. New OS F plug. New Saito 20/20 fuel. Followed the pointers on the Saito site. Used a 12V starter. Some kind of backfire 20 minutes into trying different needle positions and it kicked the prop and I bent a hundred dollar 3 1/2 inch aluminum spinner backplate.

I'm lucky. I guess. I'll try again tomorrow.

BTW. Can I run the motor without a spinner? Just a prop nut?

Flew that Sonic this morning. That little Saito is loud. Pulls hard. Got high speed wobbles. Gotta figure that out. Fun and Easy to land on tricycle gear. High speed landings are cooler than trying to float them in.

The Sig 90 is a couple weeks away from flyin. Haven't even started to find out what it needs

BikerBC. It's $250 for the DLE 20. Ouch. Anyone want a Sig 90 with a YS120 for a DLE20???

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RE: what is it? - 10/21/2012 9:11 AM   
Mr67Stang



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Status: offline 		I believe you refering to your "Zen 90" when you say "Sig 90"...???

As I said, I wish I were closer. I would likely take you up on that offer if the plane is as good as it looks.

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RE: what is it? - 10/21/2012 11:01 AM   
jaka


 

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Status: offline 		Hi!
Why run it on 20% nitro when 5-10% is all it needs??! It's not difficult to see why it backfired when you use soo much nitro.

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RE: what is it? - 10/22/2012 5:20 PM   
sparky4lawndart



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Status: offline 		The Saito 180 wasn't cooperative... I did my best.. tweeks galore... I even did a little dance in hopes of coaxing out any signs of life...

I went and bought the DLE 20 and installed it last night.. had to change motor mounts.. had to change the fuel tank... lots of changes... hoping break-in works out well tonight...

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RE: what is it? - 10/22/2012 6:40 PM   
Mr67Stang



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Status: offline 		You will be happy with the gas engine.

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RE: what is it? - 10/22/2012 9:38 PM   
acdii


 

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Status: offline 		The DLE is a sweet motor. I only wish there was a way to make it sound less like a weedwacker though. Its ok on my 4*, but in a P-51, I dont know, would sound weird.

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RE: what is it? - 10/23/2012 3:41 PM   
rlipsett


 

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Status: offline 		20% nitro is not too much nitro. check the valve train and make sure it is moving freely and are gapped correctly. 4 stroke engines need prop to be on tight with jam nut or they throw props a lot

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RE: what is it? - 10/23/2012 8:33 PM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		I have never heard of nitro causing a back fire either. The most popular engine in pattern flying was the YS and the number one choice of fuel was 30%. It just makes tuning easier. Usually the back fire is just leaning too much.
I run 15% in my YS engines and have run 10% and they run fine with it but 15% always comes up on sale and is cheaper. To me the lower nitro just makes getting the low end set correctly a bit harder. Once set the engines are fine with it.
AC, ever given any thought to making your own pipes/headers, it's pretty easy and you can change the sound of your engines. Even do some really cool looking systems. When I build the Howard Pete I will be making up my own pipe for both looks and sound. If you know someone with one of the little 110 wire feed welders you can do all kinds of trick stuff.

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RE: what is it? - 10/26/2012 12:20 AM   
sparky4lawndart



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Status: offline 		well.. the Sukhoi is set for this weekend... the DLE20 is sooo easy... (crossing my fingers it stays that way)... I swapped the twitchy elevator and rudders Dymond 7500 servos with new Hitec MG BB jobbers... I feel much better... so far an hour of break in on that motor with 32:1 87 gas... I have to learn expo on the RDS8000 as the throttle on the motor is such a short throw. 3/4 on the TX is full throttle... (yes I set he endpoints)

I put the YS F120 on a scratch built motor mount... I used a c clamp to bind it to my work table... it started after a few tries (by hand - this motor hasn't run in years)... I was so impressed i walked around the table and let go of the throttle control... it was out of my garage, shooting across the driveway into the neighbors bushes... HOLY SMOKES>>> damn.. that thing pulls like a freight train... I seriously though the table was going to fly.. no exageration...

i'm assembling the Sig now... I'm so excited!!!!

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RE: what is it? - 10/27/2012 3:42 AM   
nute12


 

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Status: offline 		the 20 is gonna spoil ya.... youll be sellin the glow stuff and lookin at gas all around. not to mention a gallon of gas will last ya weeks in that thing. lil advice tho.... just get that 20 running good and fly it, dont run it sloppy rich, just a tiny bit rich of where it will stop sagging at WOT. it aint a glow engine and has different needs. breaking in on the ground does not give the cooling needed. first flights dont hover or do high alpha for extended periods. when ya land, wait till the engine has cooled and fly again. you are after the heat / cool cycles here. this has worked well for me on all my gas engines.

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