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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/11/2012 8:01 PM   
ProfLooney



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Status: offline 		guys a little update here. I have been drawing the landing gear up for this beast so that I can make sure I have working gear drawings and so I have something I can put on the plane so when I start working on wing and nacelle framing. Dave sent me a copy of his but there were a few snags in just enlarging the assy so I am using his as reference and drawing up mine from scratch. Hope to have pics later tonight.

I also will be doing the gear for the 335 soon too so I can go further on those drawings to verify everything before I start getting parts cut.




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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 3:04 AM   
ProfLooney



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Status: offline 		heres a few screenshots of the gear. it's is not as simple as just enlarging his I am having to make minor adjustments so things are taking a while but I am down to seeing light at the end of the tunnel







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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 3:06 AM   
ProfLooney



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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 6:07 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Very slick renderings! How would a modeler do about creating these on an actual model aircraft?

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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 6:12 AM   
ProfLooney



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Status: offline 		its all done within solidworks. Solidworks has a very sweet render program buildt into it.  I been going batty today wondering why none of my dimensions were adding up. I been spending so much time on these the last 3 days that i made a major screwup and that is the lower diagonal bracket I got way too high on the strut it is supposed to be down lower close to the axle. thus all my dimensions were off now I have to redo half a dozen parts for the third time lol but at least this time they will be correct



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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 6:14 AM   
ProfLooney



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Status: offline 		oh sorry abu these here would require a lot of machining. once I get these super scale finished and finish my HE-111 plans I will be drawing another set based on these that the average modeller could do in his shop using some hand tools and a solder gun and brass or whatever tubing



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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 9:38 AM   
ProfLooney



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Status: offline 		Ok I got everything fixed up now. Tomorrow err later this am I will add my cross-members and other than a few tweaks should have it finished then I will have to disassemble it and reassemble the assembly using the axis so I can animate and test it to see if it retracts properly or not




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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 3:34 PM   
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Status: offline 		So for the viewers here, ProfLooney is rescaling my gear from 1/13 scale to 1/6 scale and restructuring the parts to make them easier to scale in the future. The key difference from a design exercise is that I've gone through 4 prototype versions and have proven out this design and built the gear. As he said, the average modeler can't build this gear as is, but through some major simplification it can be.... I plan to add even more detail to this design for 1/6 scale usage and ProfLooney will make it simpler for the average modeler, so stay tuned for those changes. On with the show

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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 4:22 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		I can appreciate the abstract beauty of 3D renderings, but without a way to translate them into reality, they remain just electrons flying around a computer chip. Taking the case of the gear shown here, the "output" would presumably be a set of standard 2D engineering drawings that a skilled lathe and mill operator could turn (literally) into functioning landing gear on a flying model. Of course, at some point in the future there will be affordable 3D metal printing...at which point the 3D model can be sent directly to a manufacturer, cutting the modeler entirely out of the process of scale modeling.

I suppose what has always appealed to me about scale modeling is figuring out how I can take more or less readily available materials and turn them into something that both looks and works in a scale manner. So for example, it would be fun to try to work out how the relatively complex H111 gear could be made with some standard steel and aluminum tubing, some springs, a few bits of L-stock, etc. Or perhaps how one could incorporate already existing Robart struts (to take the brunt of the landing force) into the design. These the are types of ideas we used to see discussed in Flying Scale Modeler's "Sport Scale Masterclass" columns by Gordon Whitehead.

Anyway, I suspect my antiquated perspective is why I build the types of aircraft I do in the ways I always will.

Carry on.

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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 4:29 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: abufletcher

I can appreciate the abstract beauty of 3D renderings, but without a way to translate them into reality, they remain just electrons flying around a computer chip. Taking the case of the gear shown here, the ''output'' would presumably be a set of standard 2D engineering drawings that a skilled lathe and mill operator could turn (literally) into functioning landing gear on a flying model. Of course, at some point in the future there will be affordable 3D metal printing...at which point the 3D model can be sent directly to a manufacturer, cutting the modeler entirely out of the process of scale modeling.

I suppose what has always appealed to me about scale modeling is figuring out how I can take more or less readily available materials and turn them into something that both looks and works in a scale manner. So for example, it would be fun to try to work out how the relatively complex H111 gear could be made with some standard steel and aluminum tubing, some springs, a few bits of L-stock, etc. Or perhaps how one could incorporate already existing Robart struts (to take the brunt of the landing force) into the design. These the are types of ideas we used to see discussed in Flying Scale Modeler's ''Sport Scale Masterclass'' columns by Gordon Whitehead.

Anyway, I suspect my antiquated perspective is why I build the types of aircraft I do in the ways I always will.

Carry on.


Yeah, that's right actually. I did the gear design because it was hard and I wanted a challenge. Only way to prove the design is to build it. While I'm certainly a sub-average airplane modeler, I have above average fab skills, so I built it just as you see it. My intital prototypes were done with simple tubing and whatnot, but it didn't hold up functionally very well. The original designers really knew what they were doing, and the closer I got to "real" the better it worked! Folks can make their own simple one, but for me, I'll probably never be "master class" at plane building, but am trying to be for the gear at least.... I'd like to find somebody that is great at the airframe, and trade machined parts for it, thus making both our projects better



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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 4:46 PM   
ProfLooney



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Status: offline 		its actually not that worthless abu since the 3d solid models can be coded for cnc use. thats the difference with cnc you can use the drawings for manual machining your right the 2D.

Plus your forgetting 1 important thing abt taking the time to draw this in 3d. and thats the fact it can all be tested riught on the computer saving a ton of wasted materials because you can test them out in the software. solidworks can also check clearances and any problems with parts colliding where they arent supposed to.

so even though it may seem useless its not. once you get good working realy scale drawings then you can dumb them down for the average person. or you get them gcoded for those that want to have a scale set made



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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 4:47 PM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Gorgeous!!! I'd say if you can do these hard bits then making the rest of a scale model is going to be easy!

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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 4:50 PM   
ProfLooney



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Status: offline 		well since a lot of these gear are tubing already one would just have to get a few odd bits macined and then put them inside the tubes. thats another thing im looking at. having a handful of parts machined that can be used with common tubing. so instead of hundreds of dollarsa for gear ya get yer kit and a few dollars more get a hardware pack for making your own gear



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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 4:55 PM   
ProfLooney



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Status: offline 		wabba have fun ABU today I am using this link which allows ppl to view my computer screen as I work on my drawings if ya want a giggle or two https://secure.join.me/356-179-172




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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 5:49 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: abufletcher

Gorgeous!!! I'd say if you can do these hard bits then making the rest of a scale model is going to be easy!


Thanks! ProfLooney is right in that you can get to 90% or so all in CAD, which helps a lot. As a machinst, and a production machinist at that, I can tell you no design ever survives manufacturing realites untouched. Even being both a designer and machinist, I still have to go through several iterations to get it "right" both esthetically and from machining feasability... I've got the CNC code written for this gear, and did shop drawings as well. Most of the parts are easy to make, but a 7 of them require CNC in all practicality and take a ton of time to setup for, and multiple operations. Getting nice scale gear is probably never going to be really cheap or really easy, but a "hardware kit" might be a good compromise as suggested, though the complex parts are where all the money is anyway. I might spend all day setting up to make one part, so if I only make one of something its very costly in time and money. I probably spent 200hrs to make that first set of gear, but maybe 20 to build the next set if I just build one set - still lots of effort. There are "online" machine shops that can quote you the bits you can't make yourself, but their prices reflect that setup/startup cost. When interesting projects come along, I'll probably sell gear sets if theres enough interest in the same scale and type and not already offered by others... I love doing the designing and am playing with several other Luftwaffe gear designs now. I'll be following along, and hopefully will build my own He-111 off ProfLooney's plans scale down to fit my gear....

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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 6:24 PM   
ProfLooney



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Status: offline 		yea when done dave we just have to reduce the 111 by 50% and youll have a baby 111 lol then we can attach it to the under belly of mine like they did the v1 and launch you that way rofl




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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 7:27 PM   
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Status: offline 		That would be worth doing just for the laughs! Actually, I need to do a 12th scale Fi-103 too, but maybe just as a glider (or AAA sized rocket motor?)

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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 9:17 PM   
ProfLooney



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Status: offline 		well I got all the parts made  gonna take a break rest of today let my head clear then tomorrow will remate on axis and test everything out so today I may just relax and set everything up for the DO-335 Gear. Like said once I get both gear drawn up I can work on the plans and make sure the framing is all done around the gear





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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 9:41 PM   
spinnetti


 

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ORIGINAL: ProfLooney

well I got all the parts made  gonna take a break rest of today let my head clear then tomorrow will remate on axis and test everything out so today I may just relax and set everything up for the DO-335 Gear. Like said once I get both gear drawn up I can work on the plans and make sure the framing is all done around the gear






It was almost as much work for you to redraw it as it was for me to design it! - Hope you don't mind me making observations on the forum, but looks like a couple things left? - Axle is tube, and the top cross brace brackets are upside down, the cross brace middle fitting should be symetric (doesn't look like it in the pic) and the trapese brace wire fitting you added isn't particularly machinable... If I remember correctly should just be a simple disc where the wires cross with 4 holes in it for it to strap to one of the wires. I also used "e" rings to retain all the small cross shafts. Can't tell, but don't see those or the grooves for them?

Lookin good tho....

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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/13/2012 9:56 PM   
ProfLooney



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Status: offline 		well teh trapese at the sides have tabs welded to the outside with little  holes and the crosswires overlap each other. not like the holes drilled in them like you had so I figured for ease of production to leave the holes drilled and I just made the crosspiece. I still got different things to do I was just looking at different options. like i said right now my brain is fried on that thing so im gonna let my head clear and look at it from a fresh clear head tomorrow



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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/14/2012 12:16 PM   
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Status: offline 		Suscribed!!!! Cool Project!!!!!!

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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/14/2012 4:03 PM   
ProfLooney



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Status: offline 		Well I did a quick placement of the gear on the fuse and also redid the nacelles so they are in the correct place now. On the front view looks like I will have to move the gear a little to the left but I need to do some minor adjustments first to the nacelles as I have them floating in place and I need to reloft them in the correct fixt positions. this is purely for my person preferences as I want anyone using the 3D drawings to be able to just mate top front and right planes and have everything pop precisely where it is supposed to go. the entire retract assembly wont be that way in the full plane assy because it will have to be manually moved around until it is properly located. However the landing gear assy is set up in proper relations so that if it was disassembled it could be put right back where it is supposed to be by mating top right and front planes





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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/14/2012 4:05 PM   
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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/17/2012 1:08 AM   
ProfLooney



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Status: offline 		hey sorry guys been staying at my sons house the last couple days babysitting grandsons while boy and wife went on anniversary trip. so tomorrow be back on the heinkel and hopefully start slicing it up into parts.

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RE: 1/6th Scale HE-111 - 11/17/2012 3:56 AM   
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Status: offline 		Great work guys, nice to see some world class teamwork!
Paul

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