.25 Brown B2 racer (Full Version)

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vicman -> .25 Brown B2 racer (9/11/2003 4:26:54 AM)

Has anyone seen one of these fly? The plans are from 1982 Model Aviation. I am most of the way through the building, all I have left is mounting the engine, radio, and covering. I am curious how it flys, one can never put too much faith in magazine reviews.



rmenke -> RE: .25 Brown B2 racer (5/13/2005 6:58:50 PM)

JUst ran into your question from 03 and Brown Racer. Hope my response helps. Fellow club member raced a old Brown racer in our club open class. He and it kicked but, period. Useing a hot OS 46 FX, made me very happy when he retired the Brown and wore out the OS. His engine had 5 psi compression over every one else, and about 1,000 rpm.



vicman -> RE: .25 Brown B2 racer (5/13/2005 7:53:42 PM)

Hah! Yes you are about a year late. The plane has flown quite a few times and is quite the little smoker if I say so myself. I started with a .25 FX. Now Miss LA is sporting an MVVS .28. I still havn't hit that 100 mph I was hoping for but am continuing to work on prop combinations etc. The plane flys like a pylon job should, rolled on edge and fast. Very slow on the roll rate but quick on the rudder and elevator. I had to change the construction of the elevator after the 5th or 6th flight since the 3/16 spruce that connects the two halves togeather failed thus ripping half my horizontal off (yeah I was scared but got it on the ground in one pc) after a schorching diving turn pass. I replaced it with 3/16 ply covered with cf. Problem solved! Otherwise a pretty cool little plane.



rmenke -> RE: .25 Brown B2 racer (5/14/2005 4:54:39 PM)

Hay rev brother, be kind to us old guys (70) Glad the thing worked out well for you. Honest, fellow club member with the Brown, same as yours had a os 46 in it, and was running quickee speeds. Now have my own home brew cut down 40" quickee wing with sports fuse design and Jett 35. The 35 turns a 8-3/4 X 8 -19k on the ground and then unwinds beyond belief. Now kicking the Quickee 500 stuff, lapping same twice in our last race. If you ever need a small powerhouse, try the jett small engines. And yes, still have great reactions. Think I see you on other racing threads, wish I was back there with your group of speed nuts. Hobby keeps me broke as is. Be good, be fast!



vicman -> RE: .25 Brown B2 racer (5/15/2005 2:45:20 AM)

Thanks for the comments freind.[:D] By building them from plans I am able to keep them on the cheaper side. It also keeps me in check from flying it too stupid.[:D] The elevator failure race was pretty cool, I was running against a Gilmore Red Lion sporting a .35 and the little .25FX was getting the job done. My next racer is the T-6 club job. The little guy in the photo wants to give it a try.



3dbob37n -> RE: .25 Brown B2 racer (7/12/2005 4:15:00 AM)

A little late getting this in. Changed Email addresses and got messed up.
Anyway, am resurrecting a "Rivets" from 1967 Joe Foster plans and about two weeks from finishing.
Big question??? Is anyone interested in racing these old 1960's Goodyear racers. Their span was 45" up to 50" and when I quit flying them in 1971 they were reaching 125 MPH.

Lil' Toni, Bonzo, Loving Special and others come to mind and believe Jerry Nelson can provide plans.
Second question: Can anyone recommend a .40 size engine for this airplane, need one that really winds up? I understand the Jett engine is quick.

\Bob Wilson Western Carolina



HighPlains -> RE: .25 Brown B2 racer (7/12/2005 5:46:45 AM)

The Foster design that was published in FM? All wood, flat bottom wing? There were a few improvements in Formula One from when you quit. Speeds got up to the 170 mph range if you had a good setup. Partly due to better engines, partly due to smaller scale features, glass fuselages, and better aerodynamics.

I've got a couple of the Nelson plans stashed away somewhere, dated around '64. Very different designs compared to where we ended back in the 90's.

As far as engine, the side exhaust Quickie engines would go pretty good on it. That design was about 4 or 5 years before the RE engines.



vicman -> RE: .25 Brown B2 racer (7/12/2005 1:07:45 PM)

Hi Bob, I fly at the Bob Wilson Field.[:D] There is a group doing .25 T-6 racing over here this summer. Two guys in my club and several from Charlotte and Connover. I will look for the schedule and send it on to you if you want. I have all the stuff to put one togeather but lack time right now. Stupid work and school.[8D]



3dbob37n -> RE: .25 Brown B2 racer (7/13/2005 2:40:02 AM)

Hey to the guy from Bob Wilson Field. I am another Bob Wilson and the club flies at my field which I own but we call it OTX at Franklin, NC. Too soon to call it a memorial field. Not ready to quit.
I spoke to Jerry Nelson and he is sending me some of his old plans for other Goodyear racers.
To the Ks guy, yeah, I had heard that speeds of the Goodyears had reached 170 or so MPH after I quit. One of the guys in our Club, Macon Aero Modelers, is a master at fibreglass mold making and I may build a couple of plugs to make glass fuselages. Jett engines are out because not everyone can afford $275.00 for a .40.
These birds flew very well as sport planes and had fully sheeted flat bottom wings.
My question is whether or not this class can be resurrected. They sure are prettier than those Q-500's I see around.
Bob Wilson Western Carolina



hsubman -> RE: .25 Brown B2 racer (2/6/2006 8:51:22 PM)

Hey Guys!
Found this thread and got my interest sparked again. I pulled an old Jack Stafford kit for a Super Buccaneer out and dusted off the cobwebs. This was the last of the Brown racers, B-3 I believe. It's all framed-up and been in that stage for about 20 years. The plane has a 43'' wingspan and was designed for the old 1/4 midget .15 class.
I have a new never been run K&B 3.5 RE for this plane. What kind of performance can I expect with this combination? The plans specify a Rossi .15 for racing and the 3.5(.21) for sport.

John



vicman -> RE: .25 Brown B2 racer (2/6/2006 10:11:44 PM)

Welcome John,
Mine was designed to use a .25 and thats what I did. I have flown it with an OS .25 FX and MVVS .28. By the calculations it should run a little better than a buck fifteen but I think it is more like 95 or so. In all honesty I think it is going as fast as the airframe will let it go too. There is not a whole lot of difference between 3/4 and WOT in speed. I have used everything from 6X5 to 7.5X7 props, all APC without any radical improvement in top speed. It likes to go on 6X5 and 6X6 props the best. It is a real beuty in the sky and always gets alot of questions when the little old looking plane blows by the bigger sport guys. The only thing I would like is more aileron throw. If I were to build another one it would have twice as much aileron, right now rolls are painfully slow but the plane will go around the whole course on knife edge if I want. Also use some carbon fiber tube to connect the elevator halves (see above[sm=bananahead.gif]).

Keep us posted on what you do.



the Wasp -> RE: .25 Brown B2 racer (3/7/2008 8:15:45 PM)

I thought I would show you guys mine,, to bad it didn't fly well,,



vicman -> RE: .25 Brown B2 racer (3/7/2008 8:57:52 PM)

Looks good sitting there. What do you mean it didn't fly well?
Yours also looks a bit bigger than mine.[8D]



the Wasp -> RE: .25 Brown B2 racer (3/8/2008 12:55:30 AM)

yes mine has a 73 inch span and it had a G38 in it,,

well people tell me it was to heavy but I'm not sure, it must have weighed around 15 (1/2 ??) pounds, but I didn't think it was to much because you see many War Birds in the 80 inch size that weigh in the 22/24 pound range,,

in the air if the right wing dropped a bit the plane would want to fall to the right, if the left wing dropped a bit the plane would want to fall to the left, it was better at full throttle but not much, and he a head wind and the nose wanted to go up, it just didn't track well as a plane should,, it had good Elevator and good Aileron,,

once I fix the wing I will get a much lighter engine, I think I can loose a good 30oz with an OS 160 or MVVS 160..

Jim



vertical grimmace -> RE: .25 Brown B2 racer (3/8/2008 8:00:26 PM)

It kind of sounds a little tail heavy. I think if you have to make a new wing, some ideas maybe to try a different airfoil. Make it a higher lift section either by adding thickness (slower) or camber. You can choose an airfoil that will work I think. Avoid fully symmetrical sections.
Also add a couple of degrees of washout. Since this airplane does not have to be neutrally stable you can use some of these tricks to work to your benefit.



rmenke -> RE: .25 Brown B2 racer (3/9/2008 7:36:08 PM)

VG & Wasp:

Would you believe our local club guy with a Brown Racer showed up Saturday for the first time in several years due to health issues. Still OS 46 powered. This little girl is old old, oil soaked, dope & silkspan covered. Got to fly a tank through her. This bird does not hunt, is solid down the track, slow aileron, good corners, no slidding, goves as a good pylon bird should, speed is good for clapped out engine, around 90-110. Feels around 5 pounds. His radio is cranked up to 150% on the atv high rates, no expo, at speed the ailerons feel solid, not overly slow, they do get slow at landing speeds which are a little above Q-500 speeds. The bird has survived several club racing seasons a few years ago. If I was offered a kit, it would be built with about 3" added to the ailerons and some carbon fiber reinforcing at the tailfeather area. I would not fool with the wing, not needed to be changed with correct CG and lateral ballance, speed is fine with a good engine. Some wash out at the tip would be ok, but not a bunch. This one will mainmtain a heading hands off within reason. Would expect to outrun clubs last years open class racers (allmost anything goes) with exception of nephew's Jett 60 LX powered kit bashed Avi-Star. The fact that this thing is still in the air says a lot for the overall design. It is capable of good speed, but does need a good engine to really scoot. A Jett 35 would be ideal, TT -40? Will fly streight and right if built streight and set up correctly. ENJOY



vertical grimmace -> RE: .25 Brown B2 racer (3/10/2008 1:02:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rmenke

VG & Wasp:

Would you believe our local club guy with a Brown Racer showed up Saturday for the first time in several years due to health issues. Still OS 46 powered. This little girl is old old, oil soaked, dope & silkspan covered. Got to fly a tank through her. This bird does not hunt, is solid down the track, slow aileron, good corners, no slidding, goves as a good pylon bird should, speed is good for clapped out engine, around 90-110. Feels around 5 pounds. His radio is cranked up to 150% on the atv high rates, no expo, at speed the ailerons feel solid, not overly slow, they do get slow at landing speeds which are a little above Q-500 speeds. The bird has survived several club racing seasons a few years ago. If I was offered a kit, it would be built with about 3" added to the ailerons and some carbon fiber reinforcing at the tailfeather area. I would not fool with the wing, not needed to be changed with correct CG and lateral ballance, speed is fine with a good engine. Some wash out at the tip would be ok, but not a bunch. This one will mainmtain a heading hands off within reason. Would expect to outrun clubs last years open class racers (allmost anything goes) with exception of nephew's Jett 60 LX powered kit bashed Avi-Star. The fact that this thing is still in the air says a lot for the overall design. It is capable of good speed, but does need a good engine to really scoot. A Jett 35 would be ideal, TT -40? Will fly streight and right if built streight and set up correctly. ENJOY


I think WASPS airplane is a different design as it is considerably bigger. That is a fine looking plane though and I could be tempted to build one myself. Where were the plans?



the Wasp -> RE: .25 Brown B2 racer (3/10/2008 4:12:40 AM)

here, read this,,

http://www.fly-imaa.org/imaa/hfarticles/kits/v12-2-34.html

Jim



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